The Forum > General Discussion > How does Society Change? : 'The Haves and the Have Nots'
How does Society Change? : 'The Haves and the Have Nots'
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Posted by AnSymeonakis, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 5:19:38 AM
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Pied Piper “like an upper class beggar in the gutter would be treated as a higher class and accorded a certain respect by the lower class rich person?”
I have met people who put credence into “class”. Often, they were the “working Class” who, for some bizarre reason found an inverse snobbery… (“two bob-snobs” being one common description of them, “fur coat and no knickers” being another) but “snobbery”, none the less in criticizing those who earned more than them and assumed it was as a function of “Class” instead of “Ability and Effort” (commonly referred to a “Work Ethic”. Despite a common set of parents, I observed criticisms of belonging to a particular “Class” between two of my uncles…. One was class conscious (actually my favourite uncle), he was a lifelong larrikin and was a ships stoker in WWII and worked later as a ship yard labourer and his (more studious) brother, was a RAF test pilot in WWII and later ran a multinational company and did not give any credence to anyone’s “class” but more to their merit as an individual. Again, if you want to understand any of these defunct ideas of “Class” and believe it has any relevance today you need to ignore the social consequences of WWII and study social orders of 150 years ago. The world has changed, we no longer touch a forelock when the local squire drives past and it is a change for the better. Those who steep themselves in issues of social stratification or matters of social “Status” and still believe there needs to be a “struggle-against-class-and-social-oppression” are, more often than not, simply looking for an excuse to justify their own short comings. AnSymeonakis “The Factors Contributing to Inequality in Australian Society” Really come down to matters of ability, risk taking and work ethic. The stupid, security-paralysed and idle will never achieve as much as the able, entrepreneurial and industrious, And even if the wealth of the nation was evenly redistributed, within 7 years the previously rich would again be rich and the previous impoverished would again be broke. Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 12:30:20 PM
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blanket statements should be avoided col...quote<<<...And even if the wealth of the nation was evenly redistributed, within 7 years the previously rich would again be rich and the previous impoverished would again be broke.>>> that might seem logical but it demands proof
as many have realised the fall to the bottum...means more that mere wealth...the ritch by and large have developed by oppertuinistic advantage..their credit makes it possable to do the vile they do...sans asset[thus sans credit]i doudt that many could even survive]let alone rebuild...your forgetting the top dont really have that much in the way of true skills[its mainly their connections that retains their postition] the old school tie only carries weight..because there are still old boys in power...remove that little advantage and these elites with the cash for private education/travel/perversion and coruption etc ...fall subject the the norms of the impoverished lower classes[poor education poor healthy facility] there is no doudt that many would find their skills not up to recreating their lost trust funds Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 1:11:15 PM
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“Despite a common set of parents, I observed criticisms of belonging to a particular “Class” between two of my uncles…. One was class conscious (actually my favourite uncle), he was a lifelong larrikin and was a ships stoker in WWII and worked later as a ship yard labourer and his (more studious) brother, was a RAF test pilot in WWII and later ran a multinational company and did not give any credence to anyone’s “class” but more to their merit as an individual.”
So in your Uncles case Col one did work harder to get where he got while the other maybe had more fun? In what way was your favorite one class conscious? I saw a similar thing with my Uncles, had 4 of them on my father’s side, him and two uncles were not left land by my grandfather. 2 farmers and 3 that had no choice but to move to the city and work... the 2 farmers looked down on the city dwellers. Was this “class” at work? “The world has changed, we no longer touch a forelock when the local squire drives past and it is a change for the better.” But I have experienced other things. I’m not very flashy, not practical when often dealing with young goobing everywhere children... I go in to a say a furniture shop and if I am lucky an assistant will come and ask me if they can help, I’ll say what I am after and every time I get escorted to the “budget” section. One occasion I said “oh I like that one” and been told to my face “oh but that is expensive”. It happens often to me so I guess I’m quite conscious of it Posted by The Pied Piper, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 1:30:33 PM
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The Pied Piper
Thank you my good friend, you are even better than I thought. those origination in the higher classes tend to obtain the highest level of economic rewards, even when educational level and field are controlled. Economic inequality is greatest when a broad income measure s used that includes various forms of income. Those who originate in the economic sector of the higher classes tend to have the highest level of rewards. http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/3/209 Social class 'defines school achievement' While Britain is the fourth richest country in the world, when it comes to educational achievement social class is still the strongest indicator of success, http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/apr/23/schools.uk5 Class Power: This refers to unequal access to resources. If you have access to something that someone else needs, that can make you more powerful than the person in need. The person with the resource thus has bargaining power over the other. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Social_status#encyclopedia Class is still a powerful force in American life. Over the past three decades, it has come to play a greater, not lesser, role in important ways. ..it appears that while it is easier for a few high achievers to scale the summits of wealth, for many others it has become harder to move up from one economic class to another. Americans are arguably more likely than they were 30 years ago to end up in the class into which they were born. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/national/class/OVERVIEW-FINAL.html?_r=1 Antonios Symeonakis Adelaide Posted by AnSymeonakis, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 1:51:53 PM
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Col Rouge,
"AnSymeonakis “The Factors Contributing to Inequality in Australian Society” Really come down to matters of ability, risk taking and work ethic" If you are not a top class racisist then you have no idea from auastralian reality, at least in relation with me personaly, I can give you many proofs and evidents even in writing, including a notice from a liberal officer! Antonios Symeonakis Adelaide Posted by AnSymeonakis, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 2:00:05 PM
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The existence of difference and discrimination in society, due to inadequate access to socially valued resources such as healthcare , housing, employment and the justice system, permits social differentiation and enables the formation of social classes. Social classes are a chief mechanism of organisation and social control in Australian society, allowing the distribution of power, wealth and privilege as well as the formation of socioeconomic statuses
http://bizcovering.com/business-and-society/the-factors-contributing-to-inequality-in-australian-society/
Social Inequality, Prejudice and Discrimination
Economic inequality is expressed through the unequal distribution of wealth in society.Social inequality is the expression of lack of access to housing, health care, eduction, employment opportunities, and status Class is the main organising principle of modern societies, the mechanism by which power, privilege and inequality are distributed and institutionalised.
http://www.ptc.nsw.edu.au/scansw/socineq.html#anchor327797
Class is] a major feature of subjectivity, a historical specificity and part of a struggle over access to resources and ways of being. Class ... is central to us all, even if we do not feel impeded by it or choose not to recognize it, or to avoid it through disidentifications and
dissimulations
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-9617693/Social-class-identity-and-the.html
Class plays an important role in how education is accessed, and Commonwealth education policy plays a vital role in determining whether or not class divisions are reproduced or ameliorated. Conservative education policy has the general effect of entrenching current relations of power and privilege
http://www.fabian.org.au/945.asp
Social class key to child's success
Children's social backgrounds are more important even than low birthweight in determining how well they achieve in school and later life, according to researchers.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/aug/09/socialsciences.artsandhumanities