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The Forum > General Discussion > How does Society Change? : 'The Haves and the Have Nots'

How does Society Change? : 'The Haves and the Have Nots'

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E Knox while the answers you have got so far are unlikely to help you.
They remind me a long term poster that we are each very different.
I know some who replied are so entrenched in their own ways they can not contribute to your answers.
Yet I remain hopeful, you are asking the questions each generation have asked.
Mine too, a different reality today than my youth far different .
But we have made progress, very much so.
In my childhood children did not get the education or chances they do today.
And just maybe if not your generation the next will find answers.
We do make progress each generation adds to our progress, good luck to yours.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 27 July 2009 5:01:48 AM
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I think RobP has come closest to the truth.
Humans are essentially tribal, and have been since before they were recognisable as Human. In the early tribes, the leader was basically the most useful; strongest, best hunter, best fighter. The shaman (or woman) was probably the smartest; the one who noticed the changing of the seasons, when 'the gods' decided it was time to move on.
As RobP pointed out, birds of a feather do flock together. Eventually, small tribal leaders would come to realise they had more in common with other tribal leaders, than with the 'lower' caste members of their own tribe. They had the same duties and responsibilities, and eventually, the same lurks and perks.
Thus, the aristocracy was born.
At the same time the Shamans would compare notes with other shamans, and create a common religion -which they had a patent on, and sole rights to interpret the word of God.
The aristocrats quite naturally wanted to pass on their privileged position to their children, as still happens today.
Today, business owners still find more in common with other business owners than with their employees. The union movement, while necessary to counter the greed and lack of empathy of the bosses, has merely continued and codified the distinction.
Communism as so far trialled, has failed to address this tribalism. the aristocracy or business class has simply been replaced by party hierarchy.
It appears the best chance of breaking down the barriers between the classes is the co operative movement, where every 'employee' of the enterprise also shares to some degree in the profits and losses, and management decisions.
I suggest you Google Cooperative, and Mondragon, for examples of the most equitable social and economic system yet devised.
The company is the tribe.
Posted by Grim, Monday, 27 July 2009 8:48:04 AM
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Hi E. Knox. While you've shown initiative in posting to this site, I doubt that you're going to get much information from this forum that will be very useful for your HSC assignment. There are some very well educated people here, but most comments tend to reflect opinions based on people's personal experiences and prejudices, rather than any systematic research about the topic under discussion.

'Class' is a huge topic that is not particularly well understood by many people, and their comments about it to a forum such as this will mostly reflect their own position within Australia's class structure. While such opinions are perfectly valid in a political conversation, they're not really very useful to a budding student who wants to learn how to research a complex topic in a systematic and comprehensive way.

I suggest you go to a library and read some introductory sociology texts, particularly those published by Australian authors. There's a wealth of information available from authoritative researchers about class and its manifestation in Australia, with the added benefit that you'll begin to acquire the kinds of research skills that will help prepare you for university studies.

I'm afraid the opinions of anonymous posters to an Internet forum don't really cut it as sources upon which to base a serious assignment.

Good luck!
Posted by CJ Morgan, Monday, 27 July 2009 10:07:41 AM
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E Knox, if you want to understand how society lands up with haves and
have nots, google for something called the "Marshmallow Test".

It's a test designed for 4 year olds, about impulse control.
When they followed these kids on into later life, the differences
continued and grew.

Its often been stated that if we gave everyone 100'000 $, within
a short time some would have doubled what they have, others would
have nothing. We commonly see that with lottery winners. Some
blow the lot, some save and invest.

So no matter what you do, there will always be have and have nots,
based on genetics it seems. Thats just the luck of the dna I guess.

Write something about the marshmallow test and I am sure your
teacher will be impressed!
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 27 July 2009 10:42:31 AM
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Hello E Knox

I agree with CJ Morgan, you are more likely to receive a spiel of each poster's particular ideology than you are to gain any insight into class distinctions.

However, if you were to survey the background of each poster (and receive an honest answer) you might find some information of worth.

Money/power tends to be the catalyst between those who are highly regarded than those who are ignored, although the possession of money/power has never indicated true 'class'. This is a constant, although the players may vary, for example in Feudal times power tended to be bequeathed by birth whereas in contemporary times money speaks, however contacts are important; look at the rise, fall and reincarnation of people like Alan Bond.

Good Luck.
Posted by Fractelle, Monday, 27 July 2009 10:44:52 AM
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I thought our individual spiels about how we see a class system opposed to a caste system is what Mr Knox was looking for?

Whether a lotto winner looses it quickly or not, they were for a time considered of another class.

Maybe along with spiels (because the perspective matters) we should be naming which class system we belong to as Fractelle suggests?

Before I announce any I’d rather be clear; Is there a formula for Aussie for determining what class? Was the question only pertaining to the Australian class system?

Middle and upper will obviously say – oh it is because we are so clever it was destiny? Lower will be saying the luck was against them and fate to blame?

I’m sure none of us will be able to figure out the individual truth of it.

Yabby you forgot the foster kids (everyone does); they can be from any class and still not do well once in the system – potential down the toilet. Maybe the four year olds families had a lot to do with it?
Posted by The Pied Piper, Monday, 27 July 2009 11:21:42 AM
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