When Kevin Rudd started his campaign to oust John Howard, his first step was to court the Christian vote. He was pretty certain the rusted on usual thirty percent of voters would stick with Labor no matter who was leader, because after all Latham had been leading by the same margin Rudd won by, only seven weeks before the 2004 election. It will be the same in New South Wales, and while the Greens will get a protest vote, except in a seat like Balmain, they are unlikely to get ahead of Labor in the Primary vote, the votes for them will flow back to the Labor party.

What Kevin took from the Liberals was the monopoly they previously enjoyed in appeal to the Christian vote, which neither Kim Christian Beazley, or Mark Latham was prepared to court. This was what brought 23 seats across the House. You must realize that the Christians in Australia are 65% of the population, and without their support no one can govern.

Christianity is the foundation of democracy. That is why Iran is so bent on suppressing democracy, and reducing it to an acceptable majority vote every few years. The Muslim rulers of Iran, can live with a partial democracy, but not with a full democracy, and it seems that the labor leaders of New South Wales, are either in hock personally to the banks, or so afraid of them, that they are not prepared to examine the evidence, and say the Liberals are anti-Christian, and the servants of the banks.

The Liberal attack on Christianity was funded by a Jewish Gangster. The evidence of that has only emerged since his death in 2006. This same Jewish Gangster probably had his tentacles into Justice McHugh, and Justice Gaudron, and they were probably not game to restore full democracy to New South Wales.

The attendances at one evangelical church in Sydney alone, exceeds the combined membership of the Australian Labor Party and Liberal Parties combined on any given weekend. The impact throughout the State will be enormous. Christianity believes in democracy and justice calls

I am a friend of an old Labor Stalwart, who told me of the inter faith brawling that used to occur within the Labor Party, and how Party meetings would divide between Roman Catholics and Anglicans. This division in the house of Labor, allowed the Liberals to sneak into power occasionally, defeated the Labor Government in Queensland, in 1957, for over thirty-two years, and kept Menzies in power for far longer than would otherwise have been the case.

It was only just that Labor defeated the Liberals federally in 1972, because the Liberals in New South Wales destroyed Christianity in New South Wales in 1970. Today there is a new ecumenicalism spreading throughout the community, with the major ecumenical advocate being the largest church in Sydney, which continues to grow apace, and continues to satisfy its members. It does not endorse any political party, as such but the philosophies of Christianity are more compatible with those of the Labor party than those of the Liberals.

Christianity means democracy. Democracy demands the separation of Church and State. This comes directly from the teachings of Jesus Christ; In John 5 Verses 22 and 23, where judgment is vested in Jesus Christ. In the Book of Matthew Jesus Christ is the King/Judge, and John 5 confirms that, but Jesus Christ himself was a humble man, and had no wish to judge his fellow men.

Jesus Christ as the Son of God, divested himself of the power of judgment, and in Luke 12 verse 10, vested all judgment in the Holy Spirit. All Christians believe God knows what is in a persons heart. To enable the Holy Spirit to remain with us while he is away, Jesus Christ stated that when two or more are gathered in His name, his Spirit is there among them. This is the basis of jury trial, and democracy. Since everyone knows what is in his own heart, and the Holy Spirit knows too, he or she is unwilling to face a jury trial, and 95% of civil jury trials settle out of court. The Prince of Peace reigns

Peter,

Going off on a tangent here, I'm not so sure that Christianity means Democracy. Christianity was primarily about justice. So, whatever serves justice is Christian, whether achieved by a majority jury trial or by an individual judge who passes a just ruling. What you’re saying is that having a number of people making a decision is more likely to mitigate against tyranny. True. But, juries can also make mistakes, particularly when it is only 11-1 for a murderer (who really did do it) being convicted and the trial aborted as a result. In other words, democracy is still not sufficient to ensure justice. In a case where there is a hung jury on a genuinely guilty party, justice would actually be more likely served by a sole magistrate.

To continue on a more religious/mystical bent, an Abbott called Joachim of Fiore in the 13th century taught about the coming of the Third Age, Chapter or Epoch (whose meaning Hitler distorted via his Third Reich) as being the time when justice would actually be lived out. To quote Wikipedia, Joachim distinguished between the "reign of justice" or of "law" in an imperfect society, and the "reign of freedom" in a perfect society. When that time comes, our current concept of democracy will become redundant.

This was the fundamental disagreement between Luther and Rome, that led to the Reformation in 1517 and the establishment of the Lutheran Church. The English had arrived at the same conclusion earlier, in 1215, much to the Pope’s discombobulation. In fact he was so discombobulated that he revoked it in 1216. The English nevertheless continued it and it became statute Law in 1297, with the Magna Carta. For a discussion by William Penn in 1670 on how this makes for democracy, see this link. http://www.community-law.info/?page_id=368

One hundred years later Lord Chatham explained it again, in this link. http://www.community-law.info/?page_id=365

The common thinking that democracy is discharged by an election every three years, is a fallacy. Democracy demanded and got continual accountability under Christianity, because it was accepted that anything not in accordance with God’s law, was not law, and the Christians had replaced arbitrary judges with two or more gathered together. The translation of Ecclesia from the Greek as Church, in the King James Version of Matthew 18 Verse 17, is interchangeable with the constitution of a court, under the Magna Carta. Ecclesia means a gathering of the people, and while the King had a Court, with a Capital letter, the people had courts of commoners, without a capital letter.

This is the basis of Abraham’s assertion in his book The JUDICIAL PROCESS that Judicial review is the ultimate power. We have not had Christian Judicial Review since 1970 in New South Wales. While S 71 Constitution provides legitimate Judicial review by requiring a Chief Justice and two others in the Federal Supreme Court, to comply with Matthew 18 verse 20, we have not had that legality since about 1977.

All this I will give you if you will just bow down and worship me, is in Matthew 4 verse 9 but that is Satan talking, not Jesus Christ

The thread like every one has to end, I find it is lost no longer even remotely what I thought it was about.
However while we bog down in the weird belief in Christ, the idea man is not in control, or is to blame for ignoring a non existent God.
What a dead end street.
I have even been told why I am upset.
Or why it does not matter.
The idea we should not talk religion or politics, not here in OLO but every place.
Is blindness, we MUST talk about both openly, not give both a blanket to hide the truth under.
I wrote this thread because my party is getting progressively worse in my state.
Because with the worst EVER opposition, they can not win the coming election.
I wanted to stand up for my party.
For the workers who are again and again stamped on.
BY my party.
We all push our wheel barrows, and we all ,yes me too get a bit far from reality sometimes.
But this thread if reviewed ten years from now will baffle the reader, what was the subject?
Just a hint fellow posters.
IF we all looked at the party of our choice.
If we cared more about outcomes than victory at any price.
Just maybe our party's would be what we think they should be.
A new leader is coming in NSW if it is not next month?
The Castor oil for NSW ALP will be a very big serving, so big in time the party may even return to its roots, just maybe.

Read this true story, tell me it is not true, my state is indeed a basket case.
Sitting in a yard in Newcastle ready for delivery and work are 5 brand new road mower slashers.
Top of the line dressed in RTA colors and proudly wearing that logo.
Next week, they will be spirited back to Sydney, for sale, unused, to whom?
Well also next week, in Newcastle, a pre tender meeting will take place.
For?
One of the 4 new contracts to slash and mow? RTA roads!
At what cost?
Some may find it unthinkable, but some ex RTA people, not lowly out door people, are doing very well thank you, contracting back to? the RTA.
If NSW is to save money may I help? cut the management that wastes so often so much, not services not workers, not safety.