Should we be farming roos?
Reasons:
The meat is healthier than most normal stock meat.
The animals impact the environment far less.
They breed faster than normal stock
They need far less water

And those are just the first ones I thought of.
We would need to make some adjustments, bigger paddocks, higher fencing etc, yet we could easily selectively breed them to be larger and less able to jump high, or any other trait we found useful.
Food for thought?

If we do it will not look like conventional farming.
In fact we can farm them from the wild, we do now.
If the killing Bambi mob let us.
I eat Roo meat, in fact other than fish and chicken it is the only meat in my freezer.
Must admit its a recent thing, but its healthy and has helped me in a diet that sees weight loss from 132kgs to 103 and falling.
Only 2% fat it is full of goodness, look to be honest it is different, not the taste that saw me swell out to that weight but its ok.
Fact is we have far more Roo,s now than when white men first came to Australia.
A side issue must be confronted, those opposed to meat eating need to tell us what we do with cattle sheep pigs if we do not eat them.
Roos? again what is the difference between a leather hand bag made from cow hide and one made from Roo skin?
A quick look at the dead Roos in drought country may refocus some on reality, we and every animal die in time.

Maximillion, kangaroos have been farmed sustainably without fences by Aborigines for the past 50,000 years under governance by agreement between the equivalence of women's and men's legislatures.

reform Australia's Constitution to provide for a women's legislature and all Australians can do exactly the same for the next 50,000 years.

They didn't farm them, they hunted them. The men did, the women gathered other foods, that's why they were defined as "hunter-gatherers". Equivalent Aboriginal legislatures? LOL! Read history, not whatever you are reading!

Dear Max,

May I refer you and others to the website
of the Australian Government's Department
of Foreign Affairs and Trade:

http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/kangaroos.html

Kangaroos.

The Department tells us that," All Australian
States and Territories have legislation to
protect kangaroos, and only the four most
abundant species and small numbers of two common
wallaby species can be commercially harvested for
export, and then only by licensed hunters in
accordance with an approved management plan."

The species they list are:
1) Red Kangaroo
2) Eastern Grey Kangaroo
3) Western Grey Kangaroo,
4) Common Wallaroo (Euro)
5) Bennetts Wallaby
6) Pademelon (a type of wallaby)

I was surprised to learn that the Australian
Kangaroo industry began exporting kangaroo meat
to Europe in 1959, and continues to the present day.

"Quotas are set on the basis of population size and
trends..."

And, "Conservation of the species remains the foremost
consideration."

Anyway, go to the website - interesting stuff.

Forget the Roos. Why make yet another species live in unatural misery?

Soylent Green would be the way to go.

I'm for Kanga meat! I think that the biggest problem with farming and selective breeding is that we would no doubt tend toward intensive practices which would tend to produce a less healthy meat, less efficiently, that puts us well on the way to the original problem.

The problem as always with wild meat is parasites and disease, all too easily overlooked, particularly by smaller harvesters. Rehctub might have insights on this...?

Rustopher.

Apologies to legitimate posters:

Whistler, if it has to be quick, your special interest group can probably have a toy parliament anytime, just like we had at school. Alternatively, given numbers, they could fight for representation on the only duly constituted one we have. This strategy has produced some success. Reconstituting the nation will take generations and your bland efforts steel me to resist the likely bland and ineffectual outcome.

Rustopher.

Belly,
For every intelligent shooter there are a legion of nongs. The laws are designed to catch the lowest common denominator.
I've seen some appalling sights, cruelty and carnage for the sake of carnage ....sport(sic).

MAX AND OTHERS
I'm in favour of harvesting the major species i.ie farming them.
Cloven hooves are destroying our fragile and marginal environments. Roos have evolved in this country their life cycle their (fertility is testament to that).
I over-see bush care an area and my records note that the population of roos and wallabies have been stable for at least 10 years. Pity about the cats,dogs, pigs, etc.

But the mighty $ speaks and farmers listen. Where's the market to exploit Roo meat has a definite flavour. We can't get the Yanks to eat Vegimite what hope of a wider market? Which set in concrete minded farmer is going to invest? in a beast that yields less edible meat per animal

Keep in mind poaching would be rife.

Disease control would be an issue. Pre whitey the roos in the wild were safe tucker but now?

Given the meat we're getting from beef is more and more 'marbled'(with fat) cholesterol etc, Farts, poo in ground smothering
pizza sized piles (hence we imported dung beetles). The cost per kilo
by comparison of body weight, environment I for one welcome the market increasing.

But as stated the Aussie pioneer spirit doesn't extend to anything new when it come to making a profit. Try and set up a public company with prospectus etc and see what I mean.

As a nation we only invest in a sure thing look at the dirth of home venture capital availability. Look at our inventions that had to go overseas to get off the ground. i.e. one of the major players in alt power sources in Kalifornia was originally Aust.

Our whole system is controlled by big business not as a conspiracy but because we the people are we the sheep.
The above is IMO only.

Please read the following website:

http:www.dfat.gov.au/facts/kangaroos.html

A "kangaroo industry," already exists and
exports meat to over 50 countries.
As well as fur, leather, et cetera.

Read and learn!

Hang on, how about having roo traps that are *hard* to get into? High fences essentially, but fencing an area that is lower than surrounding ground, hence harder to get out than in.

The difficulty of entry means diseased animals or those with a high parasite burden are excluded. The very best animals get back out to breed, against the ones we don't want, thus improving the breed.

Rustopher.

Max,
Contrary to some opinions here, farmers are probably the biggest gamblers we have in the business world. If there is a likelyhood of a quid in it they will try for it. Take, for example, the very large investment most grain farmers have in plant and equipment and the ammount of crop that is grown on marginal country where a good crop can only be expected every 8-10 years. Now that is a BIG gamble.

When roos become economic to 'farm' our farmers will do so. But at the moment the price is not high enough and there are a few practical obstacles to overcome.

Roos will not muster in mobs like cattle and sheep, they panic and scatter, so each roo has to be shot which is time consuming and costly. Then as one shoots more of the mob, the remainder get more wary and are harder to shoot (understandably). Fencing to keep them enclosed has to be very high and strong which is costly and then there are parasites. Roos get a flesh eating parasite which infect the muscle tissue and this makes a fair proportion of roos only suitable as pet food. I have forgotten the name of the parasite and the proportion that is rejected.

There are other issues as well, but one can see from the above that there are difficulties.

While it may sound a good idea, I cannot see it growing much more than at present in the foreseeable future.

Oh, in my view the impact of hard hooved animals on our enviroment is a bit of a furphy. I have seen wallaby tracks through the bush as compacted as hard as any cattle track.

Maximillion, fire-stick farming attracts game to fresh plant growth.
Australia's High Court recognised Aboriginal jurisprudence seventeen years ago on the 3rd of June, 1992.

Take my advice from another thread Max , its not worth it.
I but my Roo snags from Coles, along with my steaks and other Roo meat.
Being a bush breed kid I once harvested it with a gun.
I have worked in a tannery once and processed thousands of hides.
Roo and Cattle, an interesting life has seen me work in meat processing plant.
have you seen animals waiting their turn to die?
All death is cruel, but from the days we came out of the cave to scavenge other animal kills we eat meat.
We always will.
The Bambi factor exists, the Roo is on our coat of arms we once rode on the sheeps back we always have eaten it.
Cruelty? some of those Roo death films are true, idiots exist, many are pure lies.
We can harvest Roos without farming them, we could set up at little cost feed stations that see parasites kept under control in Roo meat.
Again if we all went of meat what would we do with the billions of animals we would no longer kill?
Think about the growing numbers in just one year without harvesting.

Fox, Banjo, while I appreciate your outlook on the current situation, my proposal was for the breeding and farming of roos in a new way. The parasites and diseases could be bred out, and the meat tamed, as it were. Wild caught anything is always a stronger flavour, cultured roo would inevitably be milder. With a co-ordinated breeding and advertising campaign, we could possibly make it the "new rabbit" on the plates of the world.
We could even push it O/S as "Long-drop steak"!
They'd never know, and we'd sure get a giggle out of it!

Max,
What you are proposing is an intense project in a small enclosure, with the roos being totally hand fed with pellets and such. Now that would save on factory style fencing and medication for parasites/disease control given via the feed. They certainly would be a lot quieter but I still envisage substantial problems with handling and slaughter.

People that keep roos for tourism would have most experience for that type of activity. I don't know what the feed requirements would be, but have a close look at the economics.

A roo feed lot: May attract some 'investors'

I have seen many other things tried, like deer, ostriches, emus but few seem to succeed.

Banjo, nowhere did I suggest any such thing!
Try and think bigger, outside the box, though I hate that phrase.
Imagine this. We have bred roos to the point of indolence, no speed or height in their leaps. They are plumper, basically more stupid, as most domesticated animals tend to be.
The fencing would only need to be slightly better than the current standard, though even that may not be necessary if we breed well enough. Larger paddocks, so they can feed in their natural style, on their natural food, in almost natural conditions. Stocking rates would never equal European animals, but the environment would suffer far less, and their food plants could be more widely cultivated, again replacing imported varieties and encouraging the spread of other native fauna and flora.
The handling and meat and hide production would be identical to what we now have, so no problem there.
All we then need is the successful marketing, and that’s in the lap of the gods.
To be honest, I have no idea if we could sell it, maybe as a health thing, but what the (*), they’ll but just about anything, somewhere, lol, perhaps we only need to get it started

If the market was there, why not. As it stands presently the government is practically driving people off the land fruit and veg farmers in particular. We are having to import more and more and are compelled to eat more and more imported rubbish at inflated prices.

As kangaroo meat can't be imported, I'm all for the idea but, and it is a BIG BUT, kangaroo meat is not to my liking nor many others in this country, most would probably only eat it if there was nothing else. We may eat it if was farmed and tasted better. At present that's why it is exported overseas, they like it; no telling taste! Kangaroo would have to be farmed and look what happened to the price of a good rabbit, which I am partial to once they were farmed. The price went up the humble rabbit lost all it's taste.

To the Skippy lovers, go out to the farmlands and see what farmers have to overcome with the numbers of kangaroos. It is certainly not an endangered species even though the numbers are culled. Consider what has happened in the NT and FNQ, crocodiles are protected and they eat people, get real! Do you really want to give the country over to animals for some esoteric belief.

Foxy
I deed I deed but it's a niche market.
The economics of the meat V beef/sheep is no where as good. Thus farmbers are reluctant they just want to grow things that have big established markets. Like wheat etc that actually costs more per tonne than it yields. (that is if you factor in all bounties etc).

Sheep/beef compact the soil which causes dead zones on tracks to water holes that can be seen from in satellite photos real depressing stuff.

The yanks still run campaigns against roo meat with bogus scare campaigns of mis treatment. I remember seeing one and I tracked down the group that played it ....they were backed by the beef farming Association.

So long as we have that sort of negative campaigns to contend with I think you'll find investors will run away. especially when they can stick to what they know.

Max,
As I understand it some beast don't tame that well and I understand that some species of roo are included. There is some doubt that they can be penned for fattening. Check out their breeding I think there's a hic cup there. Because they are a mob orientation one Alpha male gets all the booty from a maximum number of females there are issues with other males fighting(damaging stock).In short density and area are key issues. I guess the issue is the animal husbandry (sorry whistler but this is what it's called)is largely unknown and money for research is lacking because commercialization is still an unknown.

While I agree with the principal. I read somewhere that very little of the roo is good for the marketable meat. Unlike moo Which is 70% meat worthy I think the roo is as low as 35% (but I maybe wrong...I am getting old).

Smiles all around.
Not so testy examinator. :-)

Dear examinator, (Wise One, not old one!)

Thanks for reading the website.
I still feel that Roo meat doesn't have to
compete with beef - its a speciality,
and a selective market. Isn't it?

Dear Max,

I think what you're suggesting is great -
but doesn't the Government control the
market, and set the parameters on the
'kangaroo industry?'

examinator,
i'm not sure battery kangaroo
is considered animal husbandry.

Max and examinator,
Thats good stuff you blokes smoke.

Can you get me some?

Have fun.

Roo's got a dog food connotation associated with it. Rabbit is the same. Dunno why it is but that's partially what's holding it back.

I switched from beef to kangaroo for health reasons when it became available in the supermarkets at competitive prices. At $14/kg for steaks it costs much less than most beef and lamb cuts. The taste is different but you become very used to it after a while. I found that the best cooking techniques are different for Kangaroo compared with beef. (Rarer with an olive oil spice mix for grilling.)
The low price suggests that kangaroo is already competitive with more traditional grazing animal meats. It certainly makes more sense than grazing animals that recover very slowly after droughts and damage native plants and soils.

it comes as no surprise
when women are denied a legislature
and kept under perpetual male supervision
that animal cruelty is proposed
as land management.
the torture of innocent animals and their offspring
behind high fences in close confinement
to selectively breed the survivors
sounds like something
John Howard did with asylum seekers.

You a vegan Whistler?.

Whistler,
Who's talking about battery roos not me. I was talking about life cycles, selective breeding, veterinarian care, Keeping more numbers per hectare that is animal husbandry. Under standing how they will behave as stock etc. Oh yes I touched on market influences and environment.
Where's the cruelty in that.

Unless as St G asked you're and extremist vegan as well as irrational feminist. Start your own topic and we can discuss your legislature.
Until you do I'll not respond to your axe grinding.

Foxy,
I've read reasonably at length on roos etc for my environmental work but also because when a topic raises a question I do a lot of reading.
Albeit 4-5 years ago.
Sadly there wasn't that much out there on farming roos specifically.
There's a bit about the wild, some on in zoo type environment but not a lot about the actual animal husbandry of keeping them as stock.

As I understand it roo meat needs to capture a larger slice of the market to make a difference to the environment, health (cholesterol issues)and to be economically large enough to warrant farming.

No I'm not that old but my poor addled brain cell seems to be forgetting details better these days. Besides eAnt is trying to kill me....he's got me paving and digging drains etc.(cos of the recent Very heavy rains.)

Dear examinator,

I can see that I'll have to do a bit more reading
on the topic as well.

I understand the work that eAnt has you doing.
My older brother lives in Byron Bay - and they
too have all sorts of problems because of the
rain.

As far as your brain cells are concerned - don't
fret - you're doing fine. (As long as you keep
using them).

*Like wheat etc that actually costs more per tonne than it yields. (that is if you factor in all bounties etc).*

Err what bounties? Farming has to be a business, or farmers
are out of business and can close down. Australian wheat
farmers are some of the most efficient in the world, working
large acres, huge machinery and with slim margins. The bloke
down the road sows 21'000 acres, so its all about economies
of scale these days.

Farming kangaroos makes no economic sense, so people don't
do it. The skippy factor means that marketing opportunities
are limited, as the price of roo meat shows. Consumers make
the ultimate decicion here, not farmers.

Cloven hooved animals are only an issue if they are overstocked.
Lower your stocking rate and your problem goes away

I've just come across this website that may
be of interest:

http:www.awpc.org.au/kangaroos/farming.htm

Reasons why not to farm kangaroos...

so whatever happened to:

"We have bred roos to the point of indolence, no speed or height in their leaps. They are plumper, basically more stupid, as most domesticated animals tend to be."

i thought this thread was going somewhere.

Yabby,

definitively that would take pages and hours of research both of which Neither of us has either the time or the inclination.

There are a number of advantages given to farmers to help their profitability etc.
Drought bonds, assistance, Loans etc. super bounty, tax benefits et al.

I read a CSIRO report a few years back that talked about issues like erosion, salinity, over grazing, over use of marginal land, desertification etc. This report showed Landsat pictures to and around stock watering holes and showed the marked land degradation that extended to tree denuding etc. On the ground testing showed that the cloven hooves caused soil compaction, less ground cover, cow pies smothered natural veg and the spreading of inedible weeds.
This lead to exposure of wild life , decrease in birds etc. In short the slow death of marginal- to medium productive land. They pointed out that in these areas top soil is 3-6 inches deep as opposed to average (Europe) of 2-6 feet (there are exceptions rocks i.e. Greece).

Given the annual loss of topsoil therefore usable land and giving it a price all this briefly adds up to we are using up our capital and the return is not= to replacement.

The conclusion was on accounting basis each tonne of wheat costs AUSTRALIA more than it gets. Beyond that there are heaps of supportive background research.

Foxy,
I got off the plane and at his car he gave me a shovel! $#*$&@

While your last site was interesting it was a trifle un-objective but it did confirm some of my previous reading.

It's position didn't have enough husbandry info to support it's conclusions. Roos can be habituated to human contact.

As discussed veterinary/ controlled breeding could ameliorate many of the cited objections i.e. Why must they be take from a wild environment? Chooks aren't, neither does that mean battery roos. My dad raised semi free rage chooks. Shedding them at night because of big pythons (4-6 meters).

Hard and fast either way without reasonable research/facts always worry me.

Examinator, you are clearly out of touch with today's agriculture.They got rid of the super bounty when Whitlam was
prime minister. Some EC is paid in drought areas, which is basically
the dole, mainly in NSW/Qld for political reasons, it has little
do with with good farming. If they cancelled it tomorrow, we might
land up with better farmers over east. In WA its a non issue, for
nobody claims drought year after year.

Today WA is the largest wheat growing state and also the most
advanced state, when it comes to new technology, like no till.
That means gone are the days of erosion etc, over cultivation
and the old European methods of farming, which caused it all in
the first place.

You can never compare our soils here with Europe, for ours are
some of the oldest, most clapped out in the world, they were
buggered long before white man tried to cultivate them. That
is certainly the case in WA. There never was 2 ft of topsoil to
start with.

Yes, cattle and sheep cause erosion, if they are overstocked.
Reduce your stocking rate, your problem goes away. Compaction
can be caused by vehicles running around, it does not need
stock. But we've solved that one too. Most compaction by stock
or vehicles, occurs at around 4". With no till we cut slits
into the soil, at about 6-7". Rainfall collects in those slits,
you can grow crops with much less rainfall then before. You
also solve your compaction problem.

To sum it up, the WA wheat industry, which is not paid Govt
handouts and is the largest in Australia, does so whilst at the
same time improving clapped out soils and does it sustainably.

So your opinions are years and years out of date.

examinator,

Of course the website I gave was unobjective.
More then just a 'trifle,' as you politely told me.
(Sweet man). The author is very anti-Kangaroo farming.

I merely thought it might add to this discussion to
present another point of view. Stir the pot - so
to speak.

Now, I'm off for my evening jog around the park -
with my neighbour. Have a good week-end!