We live a capitalist world where money not people appears to hold the higher ground. We measure success and failure in terms of dollars, this is the capitalist way.
Even the so called socialist parties want your dollars.
From the original French Parliament the left of house was for the people and the right was for the wealthy elite( aristocrats).
In modern Western society we all aspire to be wealthy as measure of a successful life.(Prodestant work ethic is to blame)
Do we see people sharing their wealth most do not
Do we see people opening there homes to strangers most would never consider such a thing.
Do we have a modern day leader casting the money lenders from the temple.
The answer is NO so where is the left it does not exist.
There is a huge difference between being Left wing and being left of the Right.
At least the right wing liberals are honest enough to admit their ambition is the creation of wealth for individuals not for a better society.
Beefyboy

Im not rich and I dont want to be.
Capitalism has succeeded beyond its wildest dreams and is about to lead us over a precipice that we may not recover from. The atomisation of society and the resulting greed, selfishness and heartlessness of the population, along with a degraded and polluted planet will be the legacy of capitalism and forever will it be despised in the same way feudalism, monarchy and slavery is despised today.

If you look at the last few thousand years there has been a general progression to civility and the reduction of privilege and poverty and an increase in freedom for the majority. This WILL continue no matter what the rich and powerful supporters of capitalism want. They will push things too far into fascism and the populous will revolt or their will be massive disruptions caused by the environment and everything will collapse and those who are left will have to start again. Either way capitalism is being exposed for the self serving (for the rich) and destructive ideology that it really is and its supporters shown for the evil, greedy, exploitative miscreants they are.

The left is still out there and we practice it every day with our friends, where there is no hierarchy, and increasingly on the internet which is a very anarchic place and allows us all to have a voice. People learn by debating on forums like this and are exposed to new ideas. This is empowering and will lead to people actually feeling they can have a say and that they should be listened to. Once that happens those in power better watch out.

Not much to say here. This is an absolute no-brainer, but watch it twisted about like a Rubik's, beefyboy!

The global political system has shifted so far to the Right, that Socialism is now sneered at, as Communism once was.

If a so-called Labor Party wants to get itself elected it will lie on its back for the big business vote, and continue to pander to them.

It is always Labor (for me) that are the biggest hypocrites. The Liberals don't have to be anything other than what they are. Rudd and his mob are anything but what they profess to be.

History is like a sewage farm, with the dross and excesses of humanity pouring into it. Over time the "lumps" float to the top, and forget what it was like down in the soup. But the soup ferments, and when the lumps forget the lessons of history, they are swallowed and broken in the inevitable upwelling from below..
Pretty good analogy for where we are now I think.
There is no Left now, and the Right is eating itself alive, look out below!

Fantastic post, mikk, I absolutely agree with every word.

There is definitely a Left and always will be. It's just that it's no longer any use, as pointed out by Ginx, looking to Labor to satisfy Leftist ideals. The Greens are now a much better option for Australians on the Left.

beefyboy

"In modern Western society we all aspire to be wealthy as measure of a successful life.(Prodestant work ethic is to blame)"

I disagree, not everyone aspires to wealth. True though, we're all becoming more and more locked into the pursuit of wealth, whether or not we want to be, purely because society is increasingly structured along individualist user-pays lines. We're forced into working ever longer hours just to provide the basics and to ensure we're able to maintain a reasonable lifestyle into what for many will be a lengthy period of old age.

The Protestant work ethic isn't to blame. There's nothing wrong with hard work. It's the motivation for the work which is at fault. Many work hard to assist others and to help ensure a more sustainble and fairer lifestyle for us all. That's beneficial to society and is I would maintain largely driven by people on the Left. The real problem lies with the increasing numbers of people motivated solely to accumulate personal wealth for their own ends and without any regard for the economic disparity and resource depletion their selfish pursuit is creating.

"At least the right wing liberals are honest enough to admit their ambition is the creation of wealth for individuals not for a better society."

The Left is not being dishonest. It's just that the collective struggle to create a better and fairer society is not easy when the levers of power and privilege are being controlled by monied interests on the Right.

Maximillion

"There is no Left now, and the Right is eating itself alive .."

There is a Left - a powerless left.

Maybe though, as mikk points out, the new connectedness of the people will eventually provide the power to counter the current stranglehold of the Right.

There is a left alright, and it's entrenched where it will do the most damage: in education.

“The Left today is in virtual control of the universities, their ideology has infused the education departments and bureaucracies, and the education union itself (AEU) has grown into a powerful voice for left-wing causes and acts as a conduit between the Left intellectual academic base on one side and the teaching force and children on the other.”

So writes William Briggs, who has taught in high schools since the 1970’s and is writing a book devoted to the Left’s destruction of our education system.

Briggs cites an ex-president of the AEU, Pat Byrne as saying that they: “have succeeded in influencing curriculum development in schools, education departments and universities.”

Instead of looking after its members, the reason for unions, the AEU is meddling in curriculum and spreading hard left dogma to teachers and students. The AEU has a social engineering agenda which would sit well “as part of the maximum policy position for most hard-Left parties, BUT THE UNION IS DEMANDING THIS FOR CLASSROOM PRACTICE!”

Briggs goes on to say:”The world of the university campus has become so politicised that students are being encouraged in some instances effectively to toe the line or be marked down…”

Australia is now 23rd on the list of OECD for students finishing Year 12 or equivalent trade qualifications. 50% of Tasmanian students don’t finish Year 12. Students are becoming more “disengaged” thanks to the social engineering by left ideologues of the AEU, in cahoots with those of the same ilk in education departments.

When parents want to take their children away from this social engineering and brainwashing by demanding more choice via private education, the AEU shrieks about the ‘need’ to cut government funding to private and Catholic schools, while the AEU itself continues to ruin public education.

There is a Left in Australia: a very dangerous and destructive one.

I disagree the universities are more influenced by the money men more than any other public institution except for health.
User pays and student loans are prime examples of the right wing control of education.

The accusation that Left influence in education is dangerous is to greatly overstate the matter.

Education has been tainted with the Left label since Adam was a pup and it does not seem, unfortunately, to have done much 'damage' if the rise of the Right is any indicator.

When even our ALP fosters right wing domestic and global policies I don't think we should be running under our beds just yet. Who would have expected a Labor government to bring in schemes like HECS (even though the Libs perverted it further) or to privatise energy, telecommunications and our Commonwealth Bank. And who continue to foster a system that sees a further widening of the gap between the rich and the poor.

And yet the McCarthy lot are still lurking in the shadows looking for any hint of 'leftist' policy when the evidence is staring us in the face that the extreme Right wing path we have chosen is self-destructive, wasteful and grossly inequitable.

Pelican

I have been asking myself the same questions.

If there was any truth to the rumour that our universities are extreme left, producing only 'femi-nazis'.

Where are all the gulags presided over by female commandants?

Nary a one to be seen.

Instead all our public utilities are sold off, education becomes a privilege, health & dental services are for the wealthy, there is no ratio to the salaries of CEO's compared to their employees.

There'd be no issue with multi-culturalism, nor with women's reproductive rights.

Nor would there be this constant confusion of socialism with communism - another little far-right obfuscation.

Further, if there was an short-term dollar to be made in alternative industries, we'd be on our way to clean and sustainable practices. However, that requires long-term thinking, not a characteristic of neo-cons.

beefyboy
"There is no left" you have right! The whole system moved to the right. If you check the results of European elections last week, you will see that sosialists, socialidemocrats and labour parties was the big losers. And if you check each one socialist party you will see that the parties who moved far right as the OK labor party, or the socildemocratic party in Germany which has cooperated with conservatives (coalision government) they had the bigger loses.
In Greece the socialist party moved litle to the left with the slogan "Socialism or barbarity" and they was the Only? and big winers of the socialists in European elections.
All my life I was member from socialist parties, (not communists) but in Australia I avoid to become member of the labour party, they seemed to me conservative, I will feel like a left from an other planet!
I do not know the synthesis of ALP but I think there are more businessmen than labors. I do not speak for the unions as they controled from the ALP and Union Officcers act as employees from the ALP.
If anyone is from Adelaide and is member from ALP I want more information to see if there is any space in it for me! BUT I AM A CANIBAL, I DO NOT SMILE FOR NO REASON AND I AM NOT A YESMAN! I NEVER BELONG TO WINGS, I HAVE MY OWN IDEAS AND MAY BE AGREE WITH LEFTS ON ONE ISSUE AND WITH RIGHTS IN AN OTHER ISSUE, I PREFER TO USE MY BRAIN THAN THE LABELS AND WINGS! I am a democrat, deep democrat, I stand by people in need, migrants, women, old people, youth, sole parents, working families, fabrics, national companies, protect and control our national wealth as minerals etc, Socialism for me is compination of many political acts-values as social justice and democracy, peace and international law, understanding and cooperation with people from different races, religious etc on the base of mutual respect and benefits, etc
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
my email asymeonakis@hotmail.com write from ALP
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Why don't those who hate capitalism so much give away what they have and go live in North Korea, China or Russia? Me think people totally fool themselves. They get to a level of comfort usually through hard work and then become ideological. The greed and lust in peoples hearts does not come from the system they grow up in. It comes from their own corrupt hearts. The moment people living under Communist regimes get an opportunity for capitalism they run to it. I would think most Westerners share more of their wealth with the unfortunate ones than most rich Arabs or Hindus.

Runner
your argument is a bit tired and reeks of reds under our beds mentality
North Korea is more a right wing dictatorship than a socialist state for the people.

The model I would prefer to copy is on the lines of Scandinavian social democracy.

beefyboy
I agree with you" Scandinavian social democracy" is the best system we can find on our planet today.
Strong Democracy, strong wellfair system, strong social standards, strong Union movement, strong support to undeveloped world, from the best on environment protection, top on women and migrants rights, OLAF PALME, the prime minister of Sweden and a leader in the Socialist International was famous for his humanitarian support to Bietnamese people and for his fight against the American attacks in Vietnam.
beefyboy are you member in the ALP? I agree with you about SWEDEN, is any wing (group) in the ALP with similar ideas?
In real I have deep darkness from ALP, I do not know how it works, I do not know anything about the wigs etc. I prefer the party withouht wings, because many times the wings fight for their own interests instead of people's interests, or some times they try to cover one from them because he is in their wing instead to sent him home.
generaly I do not understand why in a democratic party there are wings.
If there is a group which promote a Sweden system and weakened wings even beter!
beefyboy give me some advices, not to go to the wrong place or group!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

runner
I dont want to run from capitalism I want to destroy it.
I never said anything in support of the soviet union, communist china or cuba or any other so called "socialist" regimes. The countries you mentioned are authoritarian dictatorships no matter what they call themselves and they suck as much if not more than capitalist countries. I hate capitalism because it uses people, exploits them and rewards greed and ruthlessness.

The greed and lust in peoples hearts does come from the system they grow up in. Where else could it come from? Oh wait I forgot runner is a devout godbotherer and probably believes in original sin. Well you might be an evil sinner from birth runner but isnt it just a bit over the top (not to mention offensive and insulting) to say that we are all, every one of us, inherently evil. I know im not.

The media, advertising, education and consumer industries are by far the biggest influences on people today and they shamelessly promote "greed and lust". So is it no wonder people display the basest of emotions and desires when that is all they know. The rise of such things and the loss of old knowledge and ways is the cause of todays breakdown of society.

The right only knows fear, bigotry and condescension. The right also worships money as a god. The right is overwhelmingly comprised of the wealthy and the wannabe wealthy, the fanatical, the racist, the powerful and the nasty. A sicker more evil, psychotic bunch than you could find anywhere and I want them defeated. For all our sakes.

Just a thought on the education side of this debate.
I agree that lower grade education has definatly become very leftist. A bigger bunch of leftys you could not find than teachers. Well maybe the few wharfies that remain might be further left than teachers but that would be about it. Im sure primary and secondary teachers do indocrinate their charges and endeavor to teach them leftist ideals.

But it doesnt work does it. It cant compete with the influence of the media and advertising and business. No matter how hard anyone tries to influence the younger generations it is just swamped by the seductive lies of the capitalists. Once they leave the cosseted world of school and go out into the real world it all changes.

Higher education like tafe and uni is more captured by business and the right. As can be seen by the emphasis on "vocational" and "skills" training. Courses mainly designed to turn you into a "good", submissive, obedient worker who wouldnt dare think for themselves even if they could. Research is only undertaken with a view to how much money it will make/save rather than how much good it will do society. If it cant turn a profit it never sees the light of day.

The left has primary and secondary education while the right has tertiary.

It's been said that Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth and Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty.

A bit simplistic perhaps but it's becoming more and more obvious that the "wealth" of capitalism has been based on a credit-fuelled illusion and that it's now looking to be bailed out by "socialising" it's massive debts by passing them onto the public sector.

It's also interesting to see the result of the European elections where politics has lurched even further to the right and neo-fascist groups are again rising in popularity.

I would have expected a more left-leaning result under the current circumstances, where economic victims band closer together for mutual survival but something has changed.

A charismatic leader and a Police State can't be too far away.

Anyone who denies the destruction of the education system by the Left is either part of the destruction or is not part of anything - i.e they have their heads buried fimly in the sand.

The corruption of the education system is evidenced daily in the incompetence of young professionals and the feral behaviour of school children, and can also be seen in the unemployment numbers, in political apathy and the inability for more people to survive without help from Big Brother.

The utter rubbish talked about 'captitalism' comes from those too young to remember the effects of the alternatives.

Let's also not forget that it was agents of JD Rockefeller that helped devise the US Education system.

This is the man who wanted "a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers" and not much has changed since then.

Far from being a left-wing conspiracy to dumb-down the population, it's actually the right-wing that wants the masses to remain silent obedient consumers and keeps them doped up with TV and gadgets.

Beefyboy “We measure success and failure in terms of dollars, “

You might

I don’t.

“In modern Western society we all aspire ….”

Again you might but even if you do, it has stuff all to do with “protestant work ethics”.

“Do we see people sharing…”

I see lots of service clubs (rotary, lions, apex RSL etc etc) and individuals spending their time and resources as they see fit… and invariably in a far more beneficial way than governments.

“Do we see people opening there homes ….”

A neighbor of mine was home invaded, he had no choice in opening his home… the bastards terrified him and his wife and kids… drug fuelled strangers are not the victim, they are the problem.

“Do we have a modern day leader casting the money lenders from the temple.”
If you want that start by voting liberal, not socialist

“The answer is NO so where is the left it does not exist.”

If you think a bunch of pinko-nancies are going to give you heaven on earth, think again. Lenin and Stalin were proven liars….

Lenin even said “If you say a lie often enough it becomes the truth”

And the French period of “The Terror” was instigated by Robespierre and his “Committee of Public Safety”, as authorized under “Liberty, Equality and Fraternity” (or whatever)

Such is the cynicism of the “left”.

“At least the right wing liberals are honest enough to admit their ambition is the creation of wealth for individuals not for a better society.”

Actually that is common sense, the right understand, all wealth is created by individuals for individuals… the society does not exist…

I walk along the street everyday and everyday I pass individual after individual… yet

I have never once met a “society” or “the common good” or any other mincing epithet for the shiftless and idle bludgers who support the notions of the left.

Maybe it is me, maybe I am doing something wrong…

If I donned rose tinted glasses and carried a red flag, would these myths and specters instantly appear

MIKK

You write

'The right only knows fear, bigotry and condescension. The right also worships money as a god. The right is overwhelmingly comprised of the wealthy and the wannabe wealthy, the fanatical, the racist, the powerful and the nasty. A sicker more evil, psychotic bunch than you could find anywhere and I want them defeated. For all our sakes.'

Sure sounds like you are very self righteous and judgmental to me. You could of fooled me that you don't have an adamic nature. No doubt the circles you move in are all perfect, peace loving, honest, caring citizens. Please give me a break!

Col, there has never, to my knowledge, been a truly Socialist Gov', Russia, China et. al. are/were dictatorships, Oligarchies to be precise.
“Do we have a modern day leader casting the money lenders from the temple.”
If you want that start by voting liberal, not socialist"
WHAT? The libs ARE the money-lenders, and the Banks are their temples.
And YES, you are doing something wrong, you're believing the Right propaganda. The reality lays somewhere in the middle.
Let's face it, without the social reforms of the Left over the years, we'd still be working and living in 18th century conditions.
Yes, they have a lot of Idealists, and tend to find their policies down in the garden with the wee people, but without them we'd never have achieved the society we now have, with all it's imperfections it's still better than the alternative.
You need to remove the gold-coloured glasses if you want to look through the rose ones.

It is a bit unrealistic to argue that those who do not aspire to the Right of politics are advocating Communism or facist regimes like Nth Korea.

The goal is to temper the negatives of capitalism or the 'greed factor' with a good dose of social democracy.

Extremes on both sides of the pendulum are equally undesirable.

Leigh there is something in what you say about manners and discipline lacking in schools but that is hardly a leftist philosophy, merely a symptom of our times. Discipline and manners are the responsibility primarily of parents but it would be nice I agree to have that support within the school system, although I would not like to see a return to corporal punishment. It is difficult for teachers to instil manners/respect/discipline if there is no strong foundation at home in the first place.

There is no left just various right wing ideals measured in money.
Even the unions do not advocate change they simply want a bigger slice of the pie.
It is only by collective action that society progresses, the Nash hypothesis demonstrates this.
My original point that the left does not exist still stands.
There is nothing wrong with hard work but financial success does not mean goodness (which is the basis of the protestant work ethic).
As I tell my students wealth does not mean happiness, if anything wealth just creates burdens of responsibility to the least advantaged in society.
Being a sociologist of course I believe society exists unlike Thatcherist who can not see that the SUM IS GREATER THAN THE PARTS. I call it the family of (hu)man.
Perhaps we need to chase the money lenders from within ourselves before we start on the banks.

Every revolutionary left-wing government has been the result of the overthrow of an oppressive right-wing regime.

There would be no left wing extremism without right-wing extremism and vice-versa.

Revolutions don't just spring up spontaneously for no reason and seldom succeed without external financial or political sponsorship from the West.

Wall Street helped fund the Bolshevik revolution and indirectly helped Mao's victory by intentionally delaying the shipment of arms to the former government.

Likewise, the US helped the Vietnamese overthrow the French, helped put Saddam Hussein, the Shah, Pinochet, Marcos and Noriega into power just to mention a few (right-wing) dictators.

Castro was an exception and being beyond their influence, they fitted him up by forcing him into an alliance with the Russians and that automatically made him their enemy. North Korea and Venezuela are other examples.

No conspiracies, just simple historical facts.

Also Fascism is an extreme right philosophy, as was practised by Mussolini (who also coined the term "corporatism"). North Korea is many bad things but fascist is not one of them.

Rache
I concur with with your opinion although my opinion of nth Korea is more of a monarchist state, with nepotism demonstrated with heir apparent the son of Kim.
The solution to the lack of left leadership in the western world is spontaneous acts of kindness.

Dear BB,

I suppose there are certain drawbacks
to capitalism that are common to all
capitalistic systems: such as marked
social inequality, a large and impoverished
lower class, and repeated cycles of prosperity
and recession, employment and unemployment.
No capitalist society has found a way out of
these dilemmas. And, nevertheless, in the most
capitalistic society on earth - the United States,
Americans remain convinced that their social and
economic interests are best served if the means
of production and distribution are privately
owned, and both political parties strongly
endorse free dompetition and the pursuit of
private profit.

Here in Australia, politics is a dirty word of
late. Many are dismayed by the current political
scene and can find no place in it for themselves.

I don't know where the left have disappeared to -
what we have is a kind of conservatism which
appears to be an impediment to social change.

We are in critical times and we need
long term planning which allows for the proper
protection and preservation of our environment.
The only way in which the country can work properly
is for management and Labour to co-operate with one
another, not condemn one another.

The sad truth is that the right only know one
language and that is condemnation.

You were impressed with democratic socialism - which
many of the countries of Western Europe practice
in one form or another. Do you realize how high their
taxes are?

Currently, most of these countries have been moving
in a more capitalist direction. The reason seems to be
that while socialist societies may distribute wealth
more evenly than capitalist ones, they are less
efficient in creating wealth in the first place.

Foxy
The Scandinavian countries are not perfect but they HAPPILY pay higher taxes and get greater benefits, especially in health and education. People are generally happier when there is a more even distribution of wealth.
They also live longer than Australians or Americans , have smaller prison populations, less road accidents and very high payments by our standards for pensions child birth bonuses and dozens of other social measures.

I would willingly pay higher taxes if it was spent on social services especially if this encouraged a greater sense of community and gives us all a few extra years of life.
The trouble is there is NO LEFT to push this agenda and most simply follow the capitalist ideology of "me first" and "look after number one".

Dear BB,

Be careful what you wish for.

The suicide rate is quite high in the Scandinavian
countries.

Our system may not be perfect - but we do have
the ability to be more active rather than passive
and we can participate in shaping our destiny.
The only thing holding us back now is not believing
we have the ability to take big steps.

I for one believe that there is room for social equity.
I do not believe in the politics of money and power.
In an ideology of greed, filled by an inbridled commitment
to individualism. This leaves no room for compassion or an
egalitarian society.

I don't believe that business has the right to get whatever
it wants. I think we need a re-assessment of the relationship
between labour and capital...

Regarding high taxes in Scandinavian countries - in Finland (actually a Nordic country) everybody is able to see on-line how much tax each citizen paid the previous financial year.

Rather than quietly minimising their taxes, the wealthy vie for the prestigious position of being the highest taxpayer, not the wealthiest individual.

That's somewhat different from many other societies and accruing massive personal wealth is not as important in enjoying a life where you know you will be cared for from the cradle to the grave.

As for suicide rates, there are significant discrepancies in rates between those countries so it's not a general trend for the region.

These countries are reported to have the highest "happiness" rates in the world and one theory is that people who suffer from clinical depression in such societies are more likely to commit suicide than those living in generally miserable societies.
Another is insomnia due to extended daylight periods, or alcohol abuse or many other theories.

Whatever the reason, I don't think you can just put it down to the income tax rate.

Good points from Foxy and Wobbles
This demonstrates that a left thinking government is sensible practical and socially cohesive.
So where is the left in Australian politics? It does not exist.

I believe in private ownership -for everyone- and small business; yet there is no way I would ever vote for the Liberals, and the Labor party is just a bunch of would be's. Thanks to the dialectic, both our major parties have become neo liberal.
The great lie of Capitalism is unfettered competition. The old Soviet Communists used to love using the term 'decadent' to describe our current Capitalist system, and they were right.
Our system is in decay.
Competition is a race. What happens when the race is won?
You inevitably end up with a couple of place getters, and whole nations full of losers.
And private ownership, and the chance to start a small business have never been so hard to achieve.
In a nutshell, the world's problems come down to this. There is no moral, practical or or even theoretical reason to allow companies to get so big, the ones on top get 100,000 times more than the ones on the bottom.
For an expansion of this discussion, come over to my place. No word limit.
http://thecomensality.com/avasay/?p=77

Dear BB,

Wobbles has brought up some interesting extras.

I admit I don't know that much about what goes
on in the Scandinavian countries - only bits
and pieces that I've read. Suicide rates were high.
My husband knows
more. He tells me that the tax rates (used to be) -
60% of the salary - and you actually need 80%
to live - so it's not the idealic system you
believe it to be. Also, there are other problems -
long dark nights, cold winters, high cost of living,
and so forth.

Friends of my mother's from overseas are so impressed
with our Medicare system here - they say that they
envy us in Australia - we've got little to complain
about, compared to what's available in other
countries. Especially services for the elderly.

Foxy, at the risk of wandering too far off-topic here is an extract from the latest suicide rates from the World Health Organisation (per 100,000 by country).
Some figures are old but the global trend for males has about doubled in the last 50 years.

Country / Males / Females
Japan / 34.8 / 13.2
Finland / 31.1 / 9.6
France / 26.4 / 9.2
Switzerland / 24.7 / 10.5
New Zealand / 19.8 / 4.2
Germany / 19.7 / 6.6
Sweden / 19.5 / 7.1
Denmark / 19.2 / 8.1
USA / 17.7 / 4.5
Canada / 17.3 / 5.4
Australia / 17.1 /4.7
Norway / 15.7 / 7.4
Netherlands / 12.7 / 6.0
Zimbabwe / 10.6 / 5.2
Greece / 3.4 / 0.9
Iran / 0.3 / 0.1

Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. (Greece is included because it’s supposedly one of the “unhappiest” places)

Maybe we should be incorporating other factors such as homelessness, bankruptcies, divorce, crime and incarceration rates and access to medical assistance in any assessment of social well-being or economic success.

GNI per capita
Australia Total 2007 US$35960
Norway Total 2007 US$ 76450
Sweden Total 2007 US$ 46060

Internet users
Australia Total 2006 Per 100 population 52
Norway Total 2006 Per 100 population 82
Sweden Total 2006 Per 100 population 77

Life expectancy at birth
Australia Total 2007 Years 81
Norway Total 2007 Years 80
Sweden Total 2007 Years 81

Proportion of income received by the 20 percent of households with highest income
Australia Total 1995-2005 Percent 41
Sweden Total 1995-2005 Percent 37
Norway Total 1995-2005 Percent 37

Proportion of income received by the 40 percent of households with lowest income
Australia Total 1995-2005 Percent 18
Norway Total 1995-2005 Percent 24
Sweden Total 1995-2005Percent 23

australia Education expenditures: 4.5% of GDP (2005)
Rank: 86
norway Education expenditures: 7.2% of GDP (2005)
Rank: 20
sweden Education expenditures: 7.1% of GDP (2005)
Rank: 21

Seats held by women in national parliament, percentage
Australia 2007 37
norway 2007 37.9
Sweden 2007 47.3

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Dear Wobbles,

Thanks for the figures.

Quite an eye opener. Especially Japan's
listing for males - is pretty horrenduous.
The surprise was also Finland, Switzerland,
followed by France, Sweden, New Zealand, and
Germany.

We are living longer now than at any time in human history as a species and all you whining lefties can do is cry? Just think of all the luxuries and comforts and safety that this modern lifestyle has given us. Even the common man has more than the rich upper class of ancient times. We all have indoor plumbing, access to a grocery store with fresh food, cars and leisure time.
We have produced an entire generation of politically correct, obedient and lemming like pu$$ie$ of young people and it’s our own fault. God forbid our kids have anything that resembles anything challenging or uncomfortable or unpleasant.
I vote we put all of you ungrateful cowards in a time machine and set it back for the days of fighting for the water hole every day and living in a smoke filled mud hut and leave you all there.
Life is good and getting better.
I don’t miss the smoggy 70’s and I am brave enough to face the future with healthy optimism, not ignorance and petty fear.

mememine69

"I don’t miss the smoggy 70’s and I am brave enough to face the future with healthy optimism, not ignorance and petty fear."

Which 'petty fear' are you speaking of? Global warming, climate change, peak oil, resource depletion, deforestation, ocean acidification, melting of the ice caps, world hunger, wealth disparity, political instability, the nuclear arms race, or any other of the myriad problems us lefties worry ourselves over so needlessly?

I'd be optimistic too if I seriously believed these 'petty fears' would soon be behind us in the same way as 'the smoggy 70's' are today. Unfortunately, I have a better grip on reality. It must go with being left of centre.

We are living longer than our parents but will our children.
A left leaning, socially and environmentally responsible government does not mean a return to the dark ages.
Maybe it is time to start a new thread.
If the Left existed what would they do different?

Possible Left Policies:
1: Eliminate all the tax loop-holes and exemptions used by the wealthy.
2: Dental care as part of Medicare
3: Focusing the Education dollar on the schools in NEED, irrespective of public or private status.
4: Pensions brought up to minimum wage percentile, perhaps 60+%?
5: Eliminate the private job-search centres.
6: Proper wages for the lower grades of the public service, eg: nurses, teachers etc.
7: Remove “corporate citizenship” from the law, making the decision-makers responsible for their decisions, and accountable.
8: Legalisation of marihuana, freeing up police, gaol, and legal resources for real crimes.
9: Eliminate the pouring of millions of dollars into the coffers of huge businesses, eg:oil , coal, etc through subsidies and concessions.
10: Begin preparing Australia for the turbulent times ahead, moving our centres away from the coast, building up our defence force, building alternate energy sources, preparing water and food sources on higher ground etc etc.

I am just putting these forward off the top of my head, not being definitive, and before anyone jumps down my throat with the usual cries about money, please try and remember, what we are facing is a potential world war, and the collapse of the world as we know it, hard times indeed. We need to prepare, no matter which way it all goes, what we now have will not suffice, or survive

1.Stop the legality of owning houses one does not personally live in, and businesses one does not personally work in, and farmland one does not personally work on.
2.End the dole and the pension. Pay a basic, standard hourly rate to the unemployed, for time spent in education or community service – the old, disabled or infirm, or carers would be paid -say- 20 hours minimum (negotiable, discuss).
http://thecomensality.com/avasay/?p=100
3.Create a seamless, modular education system; ie a medical practitioner could start with a simple first aid certificate, then ambulance, then nurse, etc., etc. Existing high schools could be opened to people of all ages for further and vocational education.
4.Stop encouraging people to have more babies, in an overcrowded world.
5.Apply tax incentives for businesses to share ownership and profits with those who create the profits, ie employees become shareholders.
6.Reinstate the award system, with a maximum 40 hour week and penalties for overtime. Too many industries -like food packing sheds- are insisting employees work 50 and 60 hours a week for a flat rate of pay, rather than employ more more staff.
7.Become a republic, with a popularly elected Head of State, maximum 2 year term, with a mandate to represent and defend minorities, against the tyranny of majority (parliamentary) rule; ie President, Chief Executive, whatever, becomes the ultimate Ombudsman.
http://www.thecomensality.com/declaration.html

Maximillion
You did not write anything for the international environment, for our brothers who are hungry, for the little children who have no food, no books, no water, no future, if we do not help them to stand on their feet we will have huge problems with them (I am with them!) and our wealth will waste as we will try to control them, to avoid their rebelions.
WE MUST START TO PREPARE FROM NOW FOR THE PROBLEMS OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE, AS HUNDRENDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WILL MIGRATE OF CAUSE THE RISE OF THE WATER SEA, THE LACK OF WATER AND OTHER RISKS.
We must crunch the nationalist and racists as they will be the BIGGEST block for the solusion of many international problems.
We need a strong democratic UN, we need a strong Itnernational Criminal Court, we need strong international bodies with power enouph to check and enforce the International law.
We must find ways to eliminate the Talibans, (muslim, Cristian or from other religious).
We must develope the cooperation between the nations to limite the RISKS as health risks, from nuclear weapons etc.
We must care the benefits of genetic engineering and new technologies to reach ALL HUMANS, in every corner of our planet.
WE MUST ....WE MUST....
I must go.. I am busy. AND DO NOT FORGET MIGRANT'S RIGHTS IN AUSTRALIA, DO NOT CLOSE YOUR EYES, DO NOT VICTIMIZE INNOCENT PEOPLE!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Dear BB,

If I had all the answers
(or thought that I did), I probably be in
politics. I'm not sure what the Left would
do - but I hope that the Left would look at
the mess that money and weapons and greed -
has made of the world we see on TV
every night, and they'd make sure that this world
would not be encouraged to come any closer to us.

Maximillion, Grim and Antonios

Well guys, if I could vote you in tomorrow, I would!

'Building up our defence force' would need some further clarification for me and I'm not keen on a popularly-elected head of state. The process would only end up an extravagant circus and the result would be a celebrity sports or media personality. I'm not too sure about the legalisation of marijuana any more either, as its detrimental health effects are now well documented. But I give all the other policy ideas a resounding tick!

I'd go a step further than Maximillion on education. I'd eliminate all private institutions and create a universal state system where all students are given the same opportunity and wealth doesn't buy the privilege it does currently. Society would be less divided too as all children rubbed shoulders with all other children, irrespective of religion, race or class.

I'd also take Maximillion's 'corporate citizenship' a step further. I'd legislate against corporate takeover beyond a certain level. Small and medium-size businesses serve the people and the economy well. Once businesses become the huge monolithic entities many are today, their power begins to drive all decision-making, right across the board. They drive down wages, drive up prices and reduce choice. We'd be better off without them.

I'd also create incentives for ALL householders to switch to water and energy efficient choices such as installing tanks, insulation, solar panels, less power and water hungry appliances and alternatives to petrol driven cars. I'd give subsidies to low-income earners to assist them make the switch and ramp up the non-compliance penalties for those who refuse to reduce their consumption levels.

Yes, what a very different world it would be. We might even give ourselves back a future.

Bronwyn
I am with the poors, the migrants, the women, the youths, the aged people, the labours, with all people who understand and accept that this planet is theirs and ours. I am atheist and internationalist. I am a bastard migrant!
VOTE Maximillion and Grim they are better! Sorry I forgot, they are not candidates in SA!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

One thought tickles my imagination.
I don't remember what the movie was called, but I can't help but wonder just how well a "vote: None of the above" might work here in Oz at the moment?

Dear Max,

As I told BB previously - be careful what you
wish for. And, as I've posted on another thread -
Conservatives are the party that says Government
doesn't work - and then they get elected and
prove it.

Many good ideas here
100% free public health and public education is a good starting point.
I would also want a Social Dividend or Universal Basic Income.

I dont disagree with any of the ideas put forward by those above me and congratulate them on a very comprehensive list of things that would make the world a better place. I think most people would also agree that they are very desirable future policies. The only ones upset would be those now in control of the levers of power and those that enjoy the unfettered decadency and privilege of the wealthy and aristocratic. Since the first are oppressors and the second exploiters then we should ignore their concerns and just generally ignore them.

Let them live in their posh mansions with all their money just dont work(slave) for them and dont buy their products and watch their advertising. Its not like we need the trinkets and sideshows they provide to distract and stupify us.
Get together and start cooperative businesses producing long lived quality goods that actually improve society. Undercut the greedy capitalists and put them out of business. Vote for reformist politicians and force them out if they dont follow the will of the people. Break up all monopolies especially in the media and essential goods like water, electricity, education, research etc.

There is a left and it seems we all know of it and what it stands for. The problem now is overcoming the apathy, hopelessness and fear that the capitalists have instilled in us and moving against them in unstoppable direct action.

mikk
mikk
The problem is that we do not trust each other, that many of us prefer the easy way and they hand chairs and positions.
The bigest number of the lefts are in the ALP but most of them are position hunders, as we move more left we find people with ideas we can not realise or they have big probabilty to fail, as the communists or anarchists etc, the greens are not bad but I do not know their rules, how the party run.
I put my self between ALP and Greens I vote ALP for parliament and Greens for senate.
I AM AN ISOLATED MIGRANT!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Antonios, if you place yourself somewhere between the Greens and the ALP, then you should be helping to restore the Democrats.
http://newdemocrats.org.au/
There are still some of us who believe we don't need a new party; we need an old one.

Grim,
To be honest I am thinking for democrats! What realy I want is the very basic, the very essensial, respect to human rights, to democratic principless-values, common sense!
For every one there is a place in this world, in this country, every one should have rights and responsibilities.
There are some bad guys in this world, les't find why they became bad, what cause the problem?
Let's find the root of the problem, let's fight against the conditions which create the bad guys!
I FEEL SICK FOR HYPOCRITIES!, I FEEL SICK FOR HYPOCRITIES! I FEEL SICK FOR HYPOCRITIES! And there are so many hypocrities in this world, in this country!
I am trying to find a party where I could feel and behave as a human. All my life overseas I was with socialists, socialiademocrats (something like labours) I was working on the Unions but I left them I did not feel very good! I am an honest person.
In Australia I did not try ever for the labour, I think they are champions in hypocricy but always I voted them for the parliament.
I tried to Greens for one year but I found my self to disagree with them in few things as for the role of science and technology, I GIVE TOP PRIORITY TO SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, AND I SUPPORT THEM ON THE TOP DEGREE, GREENS DO NOT FEEL VERY GOOD WITH THEM, THEY ACT AS CONSERVATIVES !
PLEASE CONTACT ME AT
My email is asymeonakis@hotmail.com
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

It would be foolish and wrong to suggest who you should vote for.
There is no left
What you need to do is research the individual representatives and look for someone who attempts to follow what YOU think is correct.
My personal opinion is that there is little choice because the issues that I believe in are not followed by any party because as I have said there is no left. there is no peoples party.
Maybe it is time for the Australian Peoples Party (APP) it does not exist yet but maybe it is possible.

Hey Antonios, thanks for your email, though I'm not sure why; I am not an official of the Democrats. If you wish to explore their policies, go here:
http://www.democrats.org.au/campaigns/our_action_plans/
Beefyboy may also be interested. I agree another alternative is required; the Laborals have moved so far to the right the Libs are almost redundant. The Greens tend to be a little one dimensional.
Although a member of the Democrats, I can't say with certainty they are the 'perfect' party, although I agree with the majority of their -existing- policies, and more importantly I think, I agree with their sentiments.
If you don't consider their policies to be perfect, now is still a good time to join, as they are obviously in a situation of necessary introspection and reform. More importantly, it is a firm plank in their platform to listen to the 'grass roots' members on matters of policy, and insist on, rather than disallow so called 'conscience voting'.
For more vigorous debates and discussions, try here:
http://newdemocrats.org.au/
Or, if you want to discuss policies of your own, you're welcome here:
http://avasay.com

Grim
"now is still a good time to join, as they are obviously in a situation of necessary introspection and reform"
Grim You are smart! Even you can read my thoughts! You have right, now is the best time to join with democrats!.
ONLY ONE THINK I WANT FROM THEM: TO BE HONEST!
I will try to contact them!
thank you.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Grim
Few minutes before I became member of Democrats, I paid online my member fees.
Human Rights and Democracy, Hard Work, Equal Opportunities and Social Justice, Understanding, Cooperation and Mutual Benefits, Peace and International law, Tolerance and Acceptance, Good Education and Health Systems ,ARE SOME FROM THE VERY BASIC TOOLS WE NEED FOR A BETTER WORLD.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide