Dear Non Farmer,

There is no dispute about the enormity of Hitler's Holocaust.
But it is equally important to be aware of the accomplishments of
the Soviet secret police, which brought death to at least
fourtimes as many Russians, Poles, Jews, Latvians, Lithuanians,
Estonians, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Gypsies and
Romanians as Hitler did in his eleven years as a leader of the
'1,000-year Reich.

The NKVD (later KGB) and the Gestapo used informers, collaborators
and assistants from among the very people they set out to enslave
or destroy. Some assisted voluntarily, while others collaborated
because of fear or weakness.

There were also, of course, numerous courageous men and women who
refused to participate in the subjugation and destruction of the
targeted groups and individuals. There were Jews who interceded
with their lives to save persecuted Christians, there were
Christians who died in their attempt to save Jews. They died, some
along with their entire families, or accepted their fates in
concentration camps rather than betray their fellow men.

Some are known, but most perished and are known only to God.
These heroes embody human nobility in its highest form and
stand as beacons in the otherwise bleak history of World War II.

Among those, who, out of greed or cowardice, chose to
collaborate with the evil minions of the NKVD and the Gestapo
were Christians and Jews, Germans and Russians, members of all
nations caught in the merciless war. No faith, no nationality,
no race was free of cowards or collaborators. No group was
spared from killers and traitors in their midst.

Some of the villains perished, some were captured and punished,
for the most part shortly after the conclusion of the war.

Others escaped retribution, dying, as did Stalin and Hitler -
the evil architects themselves - without having been brought
to justice.

cont'd ...

cont'd ...

While half of the criminals, the Nazis, have been pursued all over
the world for their crimes, the other half, the communist
criminals, were allowed to go free.

They were, in effect, given tacit permission to continue the
operation of their concentration camps, to expand their draconian
systems to include psychiatric wards, thereby raising torture,
suppression, and murder to a sicence. The fact that the process
persisted was vividly disclosed to the free world by the
Russian author, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his book, "The Gulag
Archipelago."

Non-Farmer - no one has a monopoly on suffering.

Foxy,

You will find no argument from me when you assert that communists got a free pass for their atrocities. Of the three great monsters of the 20th Century two, Mao and Stalin, were communists. Each of them ON HIS OWN was arguably responsible for as many, if not more, deaths than Hitler.

Add in other communist monsters such as Pol Pot and I have no hesitation in calling communism the most murderous ideology of the 20th Century.

One of the reasons I so DESPISE the left is their willingness to ignore, for example, the Gulag, the liquidation of the kulaks, the "cultural revolution" or the Kaytan massacre. Even today they deify Castro's executioner, Che Guevara. Every time I see someone wearing a Che T-shirt I want to throw up.

To me there is no difference between a Che T-shirt and a Hitler T-shirt.

But the sins of communism do not justify the sins of the Nazis and their sympathisers. I quoted one item in the Spiegel article because it demonstrated how willing some people were to assist their Nazi occupiers in killing Jews. The Nazis did not invent Jew hatred and, regrettably, it did not die with them.

What does it have to do with changing languages and cultures?

I find a certain irony in the situation. Cultures that nurtured a hatred for Jews are themselves about to become extinct

i find stevenlmeyer's..quote/a worry...<<...I find a certain irony in the situation.Cultures that nurtured a hatred for Jews..are themselves about to become extinct...>>..?...so i dig up more info

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090520/wl_nm/us_lebanon_un

Israel says Hezbollah continues to increase its weapons stockpiles south of the Litani River..where the 13,000-strong UNIFIL peacekeeping mission is charged with keeping out armed fighters and illicit weapons....red/flag?..faulse/flag?

http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/israel-wants-prison-for-those-recognizing-the-palestinian-holocaust-as-jewish-groups-remain-silent/
In laying bare the sickness of soul infecting and guiding the very existence of the Jewish/state,..one of Israel’s largest political parties has introduced a bill in the Knesset..outlawing freedom of speech...when it comes to commemorating the other Holocaust..about which no one seems to know anything,..meaning what was done to the Palestinians 60+ years ago/by the Jews in an event known as..“al Nakbah”....

http://uruknet.com/?p=m54409&hd=&size=1&l=e
By controlling the message,the Zionist propagandists are able to pull off an astounding slight of hand on reality:..the oppressed becomes the oppressor,..the culprit becomes the victim,..illegal colonization is cultural liberation,..aggressive expansion is righteous reclamation,..genocide is self-defense,..apartheid is security,..and ethnic cleansing is peace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8059021.stm
A UN inquiry into possible war crimes in Gaza will go ahead even if Israel does not co-operate,..says Richard Goldstone,who leads the inquiry team...but will israel cooperate?

Mr Goldstone said..he was.."disappointed"..Israel had given no positive response..lol

http://chimpplanet.blogspot.com/2009/05/were-george-bushs-invasions-in-middlke.html
Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Nabil Shaath claimed that Bush had said he had been"driven with a mission from God"..when he sent U.S. troops into Iraq and Afghanistan....and jdl
http://original.antiwar.com/scheuer/2009/05/19/obama-steers-toward-endless-war-with-islam/
76-us Senators Press Obama on"Risk"..for Israel
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gYaDFEzo2OQggN0_RxnjXdjc4GrQ

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086628.html
Israel will be forced to take on Iran's contentious nuclear program alone once U.S.President Barack Obama's overture for dialogue with Tehran fails,..an Israeli official said on Tuesday.
http://www.conferenceofpresidents.org/pressrelease.asp?ArtCat=1&ArtId=151
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/GeneHealy/Dick-Cheney-is-becoming-Obamas-enabler-45349127.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13675
New York Times Falsifies Obama-Netanyahu Meeting

The decision-makers at the New York Times are acting again as if their readers had no other means of checking the facts they report...They are saying the thing that is not,..without remembering that the record which refutes them has become easily and quickly available...A great newspaper is dying...And on the subject of Israel

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086819.html
Most of Jerusalem's non-Jewish children below poverty line

ok nothing yet...[but will keep watching..

[care to expound on your quote steven?

Societies are dynamic – and may either evolve or devolve, clash or interact, in multitudes of imaginative or horrifying ways.
All that is a ‘known’.

Some may have read a little about it, some a lot, but relatively few in Australia have experienced militant extremism during the last few decades.
Certainly those once traumatized by political/ethnic/religious violence who have found a new home in Australia tend, like most soldiers who have been at the ‘sharp end’, not to discuss their negative experiences.
So, like armchair generals, we sit at some distance and pontificate about matters of which most know little.

Yet Australia is at the edge of great change – there has been enough in the way of worldwide pogrom activity to guarantee that the migrant intake contains a fairly high proportion of traumatized individuals.
A positive view would be that now in Australia these people have a new place to forget the past and thrive under the sun.
A negative – that we should watch ‘em like hawks lest they begin displaying their bad habits here.

Why not follow the negative?
Aren’t we doing exactly that with the most disadvantaged of the Original Australians?

The staffer of a certain ex-politician once described the previous Federal Parliament to me as a “punitive regime”.
I’d suggest otherwise – just hopelessly bound by jurisdictional conflicts between states and federal constitutions – the moves from the states subsuming Common Law to Statute Law - and us all lacking any semblance of a Charter of Rights.
If we are to avoid the situation whereby pogroms may happen in Australia then we need to face these issues.
If Statute Law supplants Common Law then we Need a ‘full-house’ Charter of Rights, such legally binding in all jurisdictions.
That is the only way we’ll avoid a fate similar to that of the Weimar republic.

Tommy Jefferson said “the price of democracy is eternal vigilance”.
The corollary being ‘apathy will get you nowhere fast’.

Dear Steven,

Your last post to me requires a response.

You said, "I quoted one item in the Spiegel article
because it demonstrated how willing some people were
to assist their Nazi occupiers in killing Jews..."

That to me sounds very much like the virulent
anti-Lithuanian sentiments, mostly from leftists and
certain Jews that one hears, "They're all Nazis!"
"They're a bunch of nationalists!" and "They were all
collaborators with the Nazis!" It sounds like you're
assigning collective guilt. Which is just racism - like
muttering some platitude that, "All Arabs are terrorists."

I believe most leftist anti-Lithuanian feelings are rooted in
a desire to cover up communist atrocities. By continually
harping on Nazi crimes of the same era, they hope to
distract attention from, the brutal Russian
communist occupation of countries like Lithuania, the
Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, and Armenia.

You then added... that you thought it ironic that -
"cultures that nurtured a hatred for Jews are themselves
about to become extinct..."

You mean historically - countries that
were guilty of the eviction of Jews from their
lands like - Spain during the Inquisition, Russia
under the Tsars, and Germany under the Nazis, to
quote just a few. Yet today these countries, their
languages, and cultures are even stronger - and show
no signs of becoming extinct.

Or are you referring to Lithuania?
Lithuania did not nurture a
hatred for Jews. On the contrary - Jews had a long and
glorious history in Lithuania, before the Holocaust:
A Jewish publication - Encyclopedia Judaica gives us
very valuable information about the situation of Jews in
Lithuania. "Jews trace their origins in Lithuania back
to the days of Grand Duke Gediminas, who founded the
first Lithuanian state in the 14th century. By the late
15th century, there were already thriving communities.
In time, Vilnius the capital of Lithuania became known as
the "Jerusalem of Lithuania," a greater center of Jewish
religious learning."

Finally - Lithuanian Jewry gave us Jasha Heifetz, one of
the greatest violinists of all time.

As for becoming extinct - Lithuania is celebrating
its 1,000 years Celebration!