Well, we have finally after 18 months of stagnation, been informed of our Long Awaited Pension Increase. For those of you who may be in the "Better Off" end of the bracket, you now can "Live It Up". However, those of us in the "Less Better Off" end of the bracket, our life will travel along as normal, doing it tough. What a disgrace to our Nation and its Pensioner Community this KRudd/Macklin Government is. After having a Pensioner Review Commission by some well off Dr Jeff Harmer, who is of the belief that the Couples Pension Rate is adequate, they have the gall to offer the Single Pensioner a miserable $32.49 wk and Couples a miserly $10.14 ea wk. While they have procastrinated over this, the amount they now provide has already been whittled away by increased costs for Utilities, particurlarly Water in Victoria, Rising Food Costs, Rising Fuel Costs, Increased Rents. This provision has not and will not improve the dignified lifestyle of any Pensioners that I know. Those who now think they are better off, wait for a few months and have another look at your circumstances, you may well find you have to change your view.
Having had my say, please Pensioners, when we have a rally in the Cities to protest for "A Fair Go For Pensioners", get behind your leaders and support them. When we block off a Major City Intersection so that we can vent our frustration effectively, which is our Democratic Right, we are looking for hundreds of supporters. For those interested in supporting us in Melbourne, information can be provided via this Discussion Thread.
OK, now lets combine and enable us to voice a National Opinion that may have some impact.

Pure emotion and not much thought nasho 23.
No one would be more keen than me to support a living wage pension.
First for those who can not work, then those who can not live on what they have saved.
I support self interest, that is using superannuation savings life long to make the last day at work not one of fear.
But right now we can not afford it, yet, if we confront waste, if we help make super worth while again I will get the world I want.
But not for me, my last day will see me with no more than one years wages, not big wages, then your life is my future.
I will work the extra few months or years I am able to, but understand this country and the world has enough debt, too much debt you ask too much.

I'm affraid my sympathy goes to the 'self funded' retirees, not so much to those on a full pension.

The self funded worked hard and saved hard in the interests of securing their twilite years. Unfortunately, the governments of today see them as an easy target and as such they have been betrayed.

Now if you are one of the retirees on the 'full pension', then please ask yourself a few simple questions;
1. Did I save for my retirement, or, did I simply 'live the good life' and spend as I went.

2. Could I have been more prudent with my money and, if so, would I be in the situation I am today.

Now, once you have honestly answered these questions, then, and only then, can you determine whether or not you are being hard done by.

I know there are some genuine 'unfortunates' out there, but seriously, if you have spent the best part of your life on a 'wastefull mission' expecting that someone else will look after you, then stop complaining and be gratefull for what you are being given by others.

Spare a thought for those who have saved, only be be 'genuinely shafted'!

Well, i'm off for 10 days fishing in the 'top end'.

Now rechtub you must look beneath the surface.
In my case I contributed the maximum I was allowed for 22 years.
All that time I rared 10 kids.
5 of my siblings after dad died young.
Then 5 of my sisters, without help.
After mum died and the last kid left I faced a mountain of debt.
Paid every cent.
Took redundancy after 55, whistle blowers get no choice.
Put my super [ you can get it after 55] into buying my home for cash .
Rolled the rest over.
Am putting 20% into super now, plus the bosses 9%
Not John Howard, not Kevin Rudd but the world money crisis has taken every cent I put in over the last 2 years.
Not enough years of work exist for me to come close to breaking even.
I will work till I have no choice, love it in any case, but want you to know.
You must never blacken those less fortunate than you, until you understand them.

Nasho, I am sure that many would like to see a higher pension,
but it has to be balanced against everything else.

See the reality. Govt income from individual taxation is
around 122 billion $. 111$ billion of that is spent on
social security and welfare. Health takes another 51 billion,
education another 35 billion and so on.

So what is our problem? Simply too many pensioners in Australia,
when you add up old age, invalid, unemployed, unmarried mothers,
etc. I saw a statistic once which showed that there are as
many people receiving some kind of welfare as there are taxpayers.

So if you want a cushy retirement, you are going to have to
provide it for yourself, the Govt does not have the money to
do it. Have you ever thought of making a few extra bucks
on the side? Even a pensioner can go out and do a bit of
babysitting or similar, to make an extra $.

Many on the pension are also sitting on pretty valuable homes,
bought for a song 50 years ago, now prime real estate.

The Govt coffers are empty, that is the reality

Sorry people, as a pensioner, all these protestations of the financial hardships of the Gov' carry NO weight whatsoever, look at the incredible waste of money on themselves and their cronies, the millions poured into highly profitable private companies, coal, oil, etc, the hundreds of millions they allow the rich to avoid in taxation. The amount of money required to fund a decent pension now, and into the future, is piffling compared to what all that comes to!

not a lot of difference IMHO

we have good guys at both ends

OP and Me have our asses hanging out with no money

then we have a Rectum with heaps, going fishin

the bad guys are those that have HUGE super assured by Future Fund but only put in about 14% to FUND it

As I was studying for my law degree, I came across a funny word, or two called Qui Tam. As a diligent aged student, I decided to find out what it was all about. I found on the net lots of references to it in the United States, but none here of recent origin. Then I went looking again and found that in 1970, in New South Wales the Parliament repealed the Common Law Procedure Act 1899 and the Qui Tam action was embedded in that Act. Gone, and with it millions and millions of dollars a year in revenue. Section 24 (c.) of the Act said: Any person aggrieved by breach of statute can specially indorse a writ to collect the damages.

Those of you who saw Erin Brokovich , the movie, would know the case settled for $330 million dollars, and was a Qui Tam action. She got $22 million I believe. It was always a part of our law, and still is, but now they have abolished jury trials as of right, it is in recess. The law is still there but a Judge will kill your case before you can get it going. This really annoyed Henry VII and he made a law that prohibited any Judge, from doing so, 4 Hen 7 Ch 20 [1487] and that is still law, but telling it to a Judge, is like talking to a post.

This is from Wiki: In common law, a writ of qui tam is a writ whereby a private individual who assists a prosecution can receive all or part of any penalty imposed. Its name is an abbreviation of the Latin phrase qui tam pro domino rege quam pro se ipso in hac parte sequitur, meaning "[he] who sues in this matter for the king as [well as] for himself."

Pensioners have time to think. Working lawyers do not. The penalty for sitting as a Judge, is set at $33,000 for an individual and $165,000 from the Court. That is why lawyers hate anyone who is not a lawyer. They like their rorts

Most pensioners are still mentally active for lots of years after they retire. It is probably time for you to ask the Commonwealth to restore your common law right to a Qui Tam action, and make the Federal Court capable of hearing it. It has the power under S 23 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 to issue a Writ of Qui Tam, and the laws to give the prosecutor half are all in place. If you see the previous post, Qui Tam is explained.

A pensioner would only need a couple of those to set himself up for the rest of his life, and there are plenty of cases out there begging for a prosecutor. In Stars and Stripes, cases involving personal injuries are cited, but frauds, scams by insurance companies, scams by Governments and public servants all come within their ambit. However you need to complain to your local member that the Federal Court has S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 still in it, blocking your chances, and Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules allowing a criminal Registrar to protect his mates the Judges, and the legal profession.

Ask for these two little monopoly pieces of legislation to be repealed, or recognized as un- Constitutional, and put a bit of un in your life, un-poverty. If you don’t ask you wont get, and if you keep asking, Kevin will give you what you want or the other lot will.

Oh and just a suggestion, start going to church. Find a fun one to go to, and pray for justice. The idea behind Qui Tam, was that sinners should pay for their sins, not by going to jail, but by paying the prosecutor and the King. Its Christian government at its best, forgiveness after repentance, and a few bob for the prosecutor.

The Commonwealth has agreed to pay for the juries required, so they may as well have the half you don’t get, but the States could get it too, if they are a bit broke. There gold in that thar courthouse a waitin for you.

* the millions poured into highly profitable private companies, coal, oil, etc*

Maxi, where is the Govt pouring millions into profitable oil and
coal companies? I think you will find that what they pay in
resource tax, payroll tax, income tax etc, is enormous and keeps
the wheels on the Govt cart. In fact its the huge drop in company
profits that has caused a large part of this current deficit,
along with the cash splashes etc.

111$ billion is a huge welfare bill and with more and more people
on welfare for one reason or another, those geese laying the golden
eggs are being stretched further and further. Stretch them too far,
as you suggest and they might just fly away and lay their eggs elsewhere.

111$ billion is a huge welfare bill and with more and more people
on welfare for one reason or another, ..

--

please break this up

the thread is about OAP, not Lonely Mothers Pension

OAPensioners worked for 50 years, paid tax, raised kids on their OWN money and DESERVE pension

Lonely Mothers just got preg and lived off welfare and don't deserve pension

Let's keep whole thing in perspective

"OAPensioners worked for 50 years, paid tax, raised kids on their OWN money and DESERVE pension"

"Lonely Mothers just got preg and lived off welfare and don't deserve pension"

Well that made my jaw drop. You serious?

"They just got preg"? OPS's worked for 50 years?

Did they? You know them all?

Are you very young? The very young talk about things being fair, people being deserving, overgeneralise a lot. Butt in to other peoples conversations and then demand perspective.

I hope someone is benefitting from my husbands tax dollars besides, as Peter says, the Courts.

*please break this up
the thread is about OAP, not Lonely Mothers Pension*

Divorce Doctor, my figures come from last Wednesday's
Australian Financial Review.

They are totals, not details about which pensioners
received how much in detail.

Fact is, we know that if you can convince your doctor
that you have a crook back, you might just be able to
obtain an invalid pension.

So my point is this: 111$ billion is a huge chunk of
the federal budget. If you think that you can convince
society that unmarried mothers, widows, invalids, carers
etc, should have their pensions cut or wiped out, to
pay more to old aged pensioners, well go for it.

The real problem here is not the fault of the babyboomers of the next 10years or so which Rudds government understood by doing it's sums, They have an adequate tax payer base under them. In other words they had more children than the one's Rudd has put the pension age up for and they had them earlier. The generations under them especially in the last 30years, what is it I read in an article recently? 29% or something of those in their late 20's and 30's are still living at home with mum and dad. Baby Boomers in their 50's and 60's today had in the main left home got married and had 2 or 3 or in some cases 3 or 4 children by their early to mid thirties.

Many career people today have chosen not to have children at all or have just started to have 1child in their late thirties. I understand their decision but it does have consequences. Because there is an inadequate amount of young people ready to step into the work force under them and provide the tax base they need.

Superannuation may solve this problem but if that's the case, why is the government raising the retirement age? It doesn't make sense when you have all these young couples especially government workers on 12%super. They should, you think be able if not to fund their retirement at least fund a large proportion of it.

Yabby, Be careful you don’t shoot yourself in the foot. There but for the grace of God go you. How old are you? You are very sure of your health and immortality.
You or one of those close to you could become a carer tomorrow as a result of a car accident Sorry, no carer’s pension for you, your injured child or husband will have to go into an institution.

You are totally sure that you will arrive at sixty-seven in extremely good health. Well, look in the funeral notices in your local newspaper everyday , one day there are people who make it to their 80’s, or less often 90years, the next day there are half a dozen who died in their 50’s, 60’s and early 70’s. A lot of these people have debilitating illnesses, months or maybe even years before they die. And don’t think exercise and diet makes you bullet proof either. The human body has millions of complex parts that can go wrong at any moment.

Don’t think it’s is easy to get a disability pension off centrelink. My brother-in-law who was a carpenter all his life got asbestos in one of his lungs, he had it removed and had chemotherapy but the doctors couldn’t know if it would spread or not. He was 64years old. The hardhearted fellow at centrelink, said but we can’t put you on a disability pension because it’s not terminal is it? Six months later he was dead. He had never stopped working all his life surely he was intitled to a little compassion.

Bad backs are very real. My mother was a real trouper of a pioneer woman and she never told you her troubles, but some times when I would go to visit her, I could see the pain straight away in her face and eyes when her back was playing up. Other days she would be all right and her face looked relaxed. It's a long unpredictable road through life so don't make it tough for yourself if you ever do need assistance.

Once again I want a living wage for those who need it pensioners of all kinds first.
But we have to pay for it one way or the other.
My though is super, pay while you work, is the best way.
Lets not confuse home ownership with wealth, my country cottage is not going to make me rich.
I will die here and it would struggle to bring $180.000
Maximillion your problem drives you to find cash we just do not have.
Just as threads 2 years old here forcast something very like the cash crisis world wide, cry,s about impending problems with growing numbers of pensioners are on record.
One day, hopefully soon, my ALP will truely take the axe to waste in social services.
So the needy not the greedy benefit.

Some are literate computer savvy pensioners, and it is time for you and all the others who support the call for justice and a fair go, to write to Kevin Rudd on his Prime Ministerial contact site. Ask him as a matter of urgency to repeal S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules on Constitutional grounds.

The Constitutional grounds for the repeal or disallowance are:

1. S 79 Constitution says, The federal jurisdiction of and court may be exercised by such number of judges as Parliament prescribes.

2. This means that a Single Judge, as prescribed by the Liberal Party under Malcolm Fraser, in S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 is illegally prescribed, because unless he or she is from Tasmania and blessed with the proverbial two heads, with two torsos and four arms and legs, it cannot be a judges. This Liberal leader has screwed Australia and repealed an important part of the Constitution without a referendum. That means he has screwed you.

3. It also means that the word Court with a capital letter cannot be used to describe a ch III Constitution court. The Federal Court currently describes itself as a Court. Once again a repeal of S 79 Constitution without a referendum.

4. Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules is subordinate legislation made by the Judges, so they do not have to work for their $6,000 a week and about $3000 a week for life. This is a handy little bribe, to lawyers, so that they will not upset the Liberal Party supporters in big business, and in their State mates big businesses by doing their job properly. It also means you are stripped of a political right to fight corruption.

5. If you see corruption and cannot get a case filed, you can simply swear. The Labor Party passed the legislation you need to ensure your own old age is comfortable, in the Crimes Act 1914 ( Cth): S 28 guarantees your political rights, to access a court exercising federal jurisdiction

God helps those who help themselves, and God, or more appropriately His current representative in Australia Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second has given us all the legislation we need to help ourselves, to almost unlimited funds. It is almost as if a rock has been placed in the highway, so we cannot pass, and that rock is S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules. Arise my grey headed mates, and do something for your country.

The Prime Ministerial website is: http://www.pm.gov.au/contact/index.cfm

If you think KR ought to know about this Liberal Party corruption, continued by control freak, Tony Abbot, Philip Ruddock and John Howard, and continued so far by the Hon Robert McClelland, and his band of inherited lawyer mafia, in the Attorney General’s department, then here is how you do it.

You drag over the post in OLO. You will see it darkened. Then hit control c on your keyboard. Next click on the link to his site. It will come up after a bit, depending on your internet connection, fill in the details, and send it off to Kevin. Kevin has a staffer called Alex Anderson, Assistant Secretary Legal Policy Branch. She has been refusing on his behalf to acknowledge one Judge offends S 116 Constitution .

She asserts that creating a Court with a one man Judge, in not an offence against S 116 Constitution, in a letter dated 30th January 2009. KR should know it is because it forces you and me to scrape our bellies, on the ground and crawl to a Judge for justice. Because of the above cited Queen, a court should be a church, because She is the head Honcho of the Anglicans, and One Judge is the same as a Roman Catholic priest. For that reason, KR an Anglican should know we are right. 90% of Roman Catholics never go to church after they leave school, but all must now go to confession before a Single Judge, instead of 12 members of the congregation, as Almighty God and the Constitution intended

*So the needy not the greedy benefit.*

Sharkfin, that line of Belly's kind of sums it up for me,
I fully agree with him.

Personally I don't think that paying out a baby bonus
is going to mean less unmarried mothers, dependant on
a pension. They are all competing for $ with the oldies,
carers, genuine invalids etc.

As to the standards for receiving an invalid pension,
some years ago it was fairly common and simple. If they
have tightened up the system, that means more money for
genuine cases. What I do know is that there are still
so called invalid pensioners out there, who will work
for cash, if I needed casual labour.

My point remains. 111$ billion for welfare is a huge
chunk of the total federal budget, given that income tax
collections from individuals only bring in 120 billion.

Money has to come from somewhere.

from my book in Oct 2007 http://www.ablokesguide.com [this is in FREE Centrelink chapter]

seems Howard was told increase to 67 for OAP was worth less than $1 billion pa, so who gets the other $110 billion?

"DAVID BYERS: We're not looking at any sort of changes to the current
framework until 2015, that's eight years away. But I think it's
a discussion that we need to start to have now so that we can
ensure that we sort of think through exactly what this means,
give ourselves time to adjust, but at the same time we do that
against the reality of people living longer and wanting to live
more productive working lives.

1.6.5. So one might ask would a person of 65 years "life
experience" not be able to make up their own mind about
retirement? Also, no matter your intelligence level, I don't need to
tell you that this whole argument is self defeating as women live
much longer than men, suggesting [to me] men stay at 65 and
women bunny hop to 70, with about $20 billion saving. But I am
getting ahead of myself, so to move on, going backwards and then
going forward to the Smirk matters, we have:

PETER RYAN: So what sort of saving or additional money would
this push into the overall economy?

DAVID BYERS: It would save the Federal Government around
about $800-million a year in pension payments."

or see my UTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOBZcN-j1KM&feature=channel_page

so never DID get my pension at 60 as Nashos are not "real" veterans

nor did I get it at 63 as my applic for sex change was "not funded"

but now only 7 months to go and YIPPEE I am an OAPensioner

It is also a question of the value of yr pension.

How far does it go? What can you get for it?

Well, here in Indonesia, even with their inflation problem and their one price for white people and one price for local people system, the $AU goes about 5 times further, excepting those things that carry a fixed INTERNATIONAL price, say airfares, and is of course why there are so many pensioners of all description arriving here.

You see, even though unbridled greed, incompetence and their general free market concept has just crashed the world economic system, the guvments of the world largely continue to refuse to regulate appropriately, and in this regard I speak of the necessities.

Water, food, shelter, medicine, law.

In this manner, publicly displayed - "On this day, month, year the price per kilo of x is $AUn, drinking water per gallon $AUn, the ozzie standard house $AUn, doctors and lawyers on tap regulated to a fixed rate for service.

But no, it advantages the career professionals not to do so.

A real world example - I have an old friend. He is a partner in a law firm. He charges out at $AU500 per hour. His firm won't even work for the public, only corporates and guvment departments who bring a minimum $AU25,000 per year. And their work contracts - all practitioners are expressly forbidden from pro bono in good conscience.

They do Centrelink's "dirty work" aswell.

Again, he walks out with $500+ per hour + perks.

No, law is not rocket science. If trained, I reckon just about anyone without an intellectual disability can wield it.

..

I'll say it again - if you think this is an unreasonable situation, vote for the Greens or someone who will put an end to the dirty little monopolies in this country. You most certainly should not expect anything other than more of the same from the red or the blue.

Yabby, you have gone into your PC shell

"See the reality. Govt income from individual taxation is
around 122 billion $. 111$ billion of that is spent on
social security and welfare. Health takes another 51 billion,
education another 35 billion and so on.

So what is our problem? Simply too many pensioners in Australia, .."

Howard experts said OAPensioners cost less than 1% of the $111 billion

So why are you bashing us rather than chasing the $110 billion?

and while we are on maths, please explan

in a single year, whilst using Red Herring of "we can't afford to pay OAPensioners", Costello just took $65 million to pay HIMSELF and Mates to put in FF, STILL paid OAPs AND had a surplus

gosh, so 1 + 1 does not = 2 any more?

we now use smoke and mirrors, KNOWING you PC Freaks will simply bark back the govt dogma - and the band played on

*Howard experts said OAPensioners cost less than 1% of the $111 billion
So why are you bashing us rather than chasing the $110 billion?*

DD, frankly I think that you have your financial knickers in a
knacker here, for even a rough guess would prove you wrong.

Right now I can't be bothered to chase the exact figures for
old agers in that 111 billion, but if I feel like it and get time,
I'll have a look through the file

Yabby Dabby Do said

*Howard experts said OAPensioners cost less than 1% of the $111 billion
So why are you bashing us rather than chasing the $110 billion?*

DD, frankly I think that you have your financial knickers in a
knacker here, for even a rough guess would prove you wrong.

Right now I can't be bothered to chase the exact figures for
old agers in that 111 billion, but if I feel like it and get time,
I'll have a look through the file

--

so this is just what we all expected from a Politically Correct upstart like you

you are happy to latch on to a Media figure of $111 billion and USE it to bash OAPensioners so as to get a few bucks from this forum in Blood Money

but you "can't be bothered" when a GOVT figure of 1% of that is floated in front of you

Man, the ABS/etc site gives ALL the figures, so maybe you go there first before flappin the jowels next time?

you are a total money grubbing coward and should be ashamed of yourself

DD, my post clearly went above your head, but such is life.

My point remains that total spending on welfare, which takes a huge
chunk of the budget, cannot just keep growing.

Ok, I had a look. Old age pensioners take around 30 billion of that
in payments. Then their health care, then their pharmaceutical
benefits, then cheaper power, rates, transport, housing and all
the rest.

Fact is that you should call yourself lucky to live in a country
which provides you with all those things and stop whinging.

Ok, I had a look. Old age pensioners take around 30 billion of that
in payments.
--
OK then, so only 25%. So why not bash the 75%, eg the Lonely Mothers Pensioners
--

Fact is that you should call yourself lucky to live in a country
which provides you with all those things and stop whinging.

--

just did some calcs by indexation

seems I paid some half a million in tax in my working life

seems I need to live to 123.67 years to break even

over to you Yabby, ie did you ever fund your future?

did you ever fight The Yellow Peril?

thought not!!

*over to you Yabby, ie did you ever fund your future?*

Yup. I will never in my lifetime, be paid a Govt pension,
despite paying all that tax.

*did you ever fight The Yellow Peril?*

Nope, I was never silly enough to do that. I note that
now they are simply buying the best assets in Australia,
so all your effort was for nothing it seems.

*seems I need to live to 123.67 years to break even*

So you seemingly think DD, that the Govt has kept all your
money in the Govt cookie jar, ready to give it back to you?

Ha!

They paid you to fight the so called yellow peril. They
educated your kids, they paid for your medical expenses,
they paid those unmarried mothers on your behalf. The
cookie jar is empty, sorry.

So you'll be given enough so that you don't starve, but
no cushy lifestyle for you, unless you learn to help
yourself a bit.

Believe me, relying on yourself is far smarter then relying
on the Govt. If you don't, you will learn the hard way
it seems. Such is life.

no no no Yappie

I am over the moon about the prospect of a pension and with $32 more, all in 6 months time

it should not have been needed as I worked my guts out all my life, got 3 kids to phd level etc etc

wife's lawyers took my super so I should have been like you and rectum and bin able to keep myself in luxury

but I chose to support my family while you went for self support greed

so why are you complaining dude?

why not go fishin with Rectum

after all, you may be dead next year, espec as you are all wound up as tight as a drum about a subject that should not concern you

not good for health dude to be so wound up - like did you go fishing today? I did dude

you need to unwind dude

Ah DD, but I am not complaining.

Simply pointing out to you that you had your financial
knickers in a knot, when it came to figures and that
there is a limit as to what can be paid to pensioners.
OLO is a great place for a bit of mental gymnastics.

Why on earth should I go fishing, when I'm not keen
on fishing?

But I'm certainly fortunate in doing the things I want
to do and not the things others have to do. Lucky me!

Ok, so your missues took off with your money, you are
not the first one. Such is life.

Those receiving the age pension today did not have the benefits of superannuation, many stayed at home to raise children, grew up with the belief that a portion of taxes were paid into a fund to support them in retirement.

I am not sure why there is such a lack of compassion for the way the elderly and other pensioners such as the disabled and carers are treated in this country. We have become quite ruthless in our perceptions of who is deserving of a share of the the public purse and why.

We need to wake up to ourselves that it is people that make up a community and how we treat the most vulnerable is a measure of civilisation.

Governments waste many more dollars on 'spin' projects and the bottomless pit of Defence and national security than they will ever spend on the elderly.

Crap - I pushed new post and don't know if I shut it down there will be a empty message from me.

Umm... a local residentail park full of oldies had a rent increase of $13.00 - $18.00 a week the day the budget said our elders would get more. A lot say it means they have to miss a meal a week.

I personally found it offensive so at a personal level I am going to go there and hand the first old person I find some cash, might even start doing it regularly. I lie - I am lazy, I will send one of my kids.

Or vouchers for a local Restaurant? I never think things through - how would you all do it?

well $18 increase in rent means "pensioner" [ie lonely mothers brigade also] pay $4.50 and govt pays $13.50

seems quite fair for "real" pensioners but a bit dubious for a woman who has chosen to have a child simply to avoid working, ie the 75% of the welfare budget that Yappie seeks to avoid as he bashes the OAPensioners

"seems quite fair for "real" pensioners but a bit dubious for a woman who has chosen to have a child simply to avoid working, ie the 75% of the welfare budget that Yappie seeks to avoid as he bashes the OAPensioners"

Gosh, you don’t like the mums do you DD. I don’t like the over generalising.

Yabby seems to be well off with no understanding of the great unwashed. We will probably find out he is an MP somewhere. But anyways...

I have a young mum here, 15 year old with a one year old. You don’t even want to know why that happened but I can tell you she did not do it to avoid working, school or because she was lonely.

But what will spew you is this (I also think it is wrong on several levels btw). I will get paid the full allowance to have her and her boy live in my home as my foster children.

She is able to remain on single mothers benefit.

She can claim family assistance for her child while I can claim family assistance for her.

She has to put her child in day care (no she doesn’t want to she wants him here with me during the day) while she attends school. Child care subsidy is 100% for her.

I think we just won the triple dip. This country is crazy, no I am not going to complain and I am too scared to add it up incase it freaks me out too much and the guilt gets me.

*Governments waste many more dollars on 'spin' projects and the bottomless pit of Defence and national security than they will ever spend on the elderly.*

Pelican, it may seem so, but if we look at the actual figures,
21 billion is spent on defence, 111$ billion of welfare. Health
is another 50 billion, 9 billion for prescription subsidies.

So its the sheer volume of people receiving pensions of one kind
or another, which limits the amount that can be spent on each
pensioner.

Its not for me to say which pensioners should receive more, which
nothing, which less. I am simply pointing out the fundamentals
of the problem in terms of the budget. Given the rise in OA
pensioners with the baby boomers joining in, the problem is only
going to become far larger.

I do find your comments to be somewhat myopic *Yabby*

Australia's economy is larger than a lot of our neighbours economies put together.

We have very few people relative to many of our neighbours and my view is that population needs to be linked to Human Rights - ie when the country can no longer afford to pay pensioners a minimum "australian" standard then you simply ban breeding, and therafter have a lucky dip when breeding can re-commence.

If not, u can end up with a country full of thieves, beggars and people ho'ing themselves.

The problem in australia is not that pensioners are paid too much. They're not by half. The problem is that business charges too much and government, public servants and consultants (that includes lawyers and drs) are all paid too much.

I agree with *Pelican* we would do well to remember that amongst the pensioner sub group are those who played a not insignificant price in sweat and blood buliding and defending this country and the least we can do is make sure that they all have:

"Economic Security and a decent standard of living."

*ie when the country can no longer afford to pay pensioners a minimum "australian" standard then you simply ban breeding,*

DreamOn, seemingly you are busy dreaming. For if you ban breeding,
you won't have any young taxpyers in later years. So who is myopic
here?

The size of the economy is not the issue. It is more about how
many are on a nett basis actually contributing to Govt revenue
and how many are drawing from it.

In Australia, last I checked we had as many drawing from Govt
as taxpayers. The cake is only so large, the more living from
the Govt, the less there is to go round.

You could of course increase taxes on the rich. What would
happen is that the richest would go and live somewhere else, where
taxes are lower. All this has been tried before.

If you really want to help the poor, so shut down the pokies.
For its usually the poor who lose billions of $ a year, down
those machines. The rich sit back and cash in, by owning them.

Yappie

you are such a pathetic little worm

go away

Yabby:“If you really want to help the poor, so shut down the pokies. For its usually the poor who lose billions of $ a year, own those machines. The rich sit back and cash in, by owning them.”

There are towns in NZ that wont let them in, they have seen what happens to the poor locals in other towns. In Oz can individual towns/councils do this?

I can’t imagine that happening here, the cry for “rights” would be heard coast to coast, thread to thread.

I think the message was sound; your delivery often brings out the worst in people. You obviously have a gift.

I am going to go google the word “myopic”. Oh yeah and “sagacious”, damn CJ.

Pelican: “We need to wake up to ourselves that it is people that make up a community and how we treat the most vulnerable is a measure of civilization”

I heard it was how we treat our dead. Mostly we seem to want them to hurry up and get there then we can have a nice service.

Yabby
Your welfare figure includes a vast number of welfare initiatives, including middle class handouts and some of the more peripheral welfare allocations such as for housing, social inclusion and the homeless just to name a few - where did you get the figure?

As far as I am aware the reform package for age pensioners in this Budget comes to about $14.2 billion. Much less than Defence, border protection and other national security spending.

When coming to a figure on age pensions it does not have to mean reducing welfare to other needy sectors. It can come out of corporate welfare spending or a number of other areas. There is no rule that by increasing one pension you have to decrease another type of pension.

Sometimes governments should simply do what is 'fair'.

DD
Sole parents did not get a pension rise in the budget.

http://www.budget.gov.au/

Pelican, each year when the budget appears, the major papers do
a budget breakdown. I generally keep a copy. This year I kept the
one from the AFR and the one done by the West Australian economics
editor.

Yes, the 110 billion for welfare includes various welfare, but the
point is that the total is huge. According to the West Australian,
age is about a quarter of that, invalids another 14 billion. Their
health, housing, etc is on top of that.

Do the maths yourself. According to the budget, there are around
3.3 million aged, invalid, etc pensioners. Pay each of them a rough
guess average of 270$ or whatever, say 14'000 a year, that gives
you 46 billion. Add another half a million carers, more billions.

So if you want to put pension payments up by 10%, your total cost
will be 11 billion$ in total. Who on which pension gets how much,
is another argument again.

Industry payments are minimal in comparison. I have no problem with
them being cut, the main beneficiaries seem to be MV companies,
around 600 million a year or whatever. That won't get you far and
the people who work for those companies, terrified that they will
close down without assistance, might not agree with you. Your
unemployment pensions might then increase dramatically.

Just think about the fundmentals of the big picture here. Something
like 90% of income taxes paid by working Australians goes for
just welfare expenditure. That is roughly 6 times the military budget. Health, education, payments to the States, all then are
still to be financed too.

" ... DreamOn, seemingly you are busy dreaming. For if you ban breeding,you won't have any young taxpyers in later years. So who is myopic here? ... "

Yappie, it doesn't mean that you won't have any young people, but rather that breeding will be sustainable, in part indexed to the base line of the saftey net.

I am wondering, are you a political propaganda parrot?

You seem to deliberately avoid the "big picture issues" in relation to the economy despite protestations to the contrary.

I'll give you an example. The reason that liberal party members generally do not wish to invest in training of australians and investment in manufacturing here is becasue it reduces their profit margins.

They purchase from say red china at minimal price, who historically did not control their population growth resulting in massively wide spread impoverishment, bare subsistence living and economic enslavement, and then sell to australians at an inflated cost.

For some of the pensioners, if you have enough excess in your budget to "break traction" consider a 60 day holiday in Indonesia or otherr parts of asia.
(Book yr accomodation on arrival and give the parasites a miss)

The same red china goods that you buy in australia don't even cost 1/10 of the price that they do in australia, with a much bigger range of choice. Buy up big for the years ahead, clothes and toys for the grand kids (100% cotton)and then ship back. You'll have a wow of a time and save a lot of $AU.

*but rather that breeding will be sustainable, in part indexed to the base line of the saftey net.*

Explain that one to me DreamOn. I was not aware that we are breeding
unsustainably.

*The reason that liberal party members generally do not wish to invest in training of australians and investment in manufacturing here is becasue it reduces their profit margins.*

So why don't Labour party members invest? I was not aware that
political parties had anything to do with it. There is alot of
investment in manufacturing, just not in consumer goods manufacturing,
because our costs in Australia are too high and consumers want
cheaper products and won't pay the price. You can't run a business
at a loss.

*Buy up big for the years ahead, clothes and toys for the grand kids (100% cotton)and then ship back. You'll have a wow of a time and save a lot of $AU.*

I'm sure you would save and it is understandable. Everything in
Australia is high cost, including marketing. It costs far more
to move a pair of shoes through the wholesale/retail distribution
system, pay for advertising, pay high salaries all the way, pay
high rents all the way, pay GST, then it does to make those shoes.

All those shop assistants in those stores, standing around picking
their noses, as well as shopping centre rents, do not come cheap.
The consumer pays for the lot.

The biggest beneficiaries of globalisation, are actually the poor,
for they can afford much cheaper clothes etc, then if they were made
in Australia.

I suspect that some of your questioning is disingenuous YappY?

The world is growning under the strain of over population. Thousands of children die reguarly. I would recommend say Attenborough, Life on Earth, or say Al Gore's an "Inconvenient Truth."

And mayb, Greens 101 when the alp erects Knowledge Nation on the future optical fibre network.

No excuse for not being able to do an online degree via one of thousands of Knowledge Servers then. I hope that in the future for a bargain basement price, people of all description will be able to log on, register and study whatever they want whenever they want, and not predicated on this pitiful system of only a few get to study this or that based on your performance as a snotty nosed teenager.

Of course, to suggest that guvments aren't involved in the investment process is a high expression of ignorance my friend. A practical example is Bazza Obama et al preparing the legal framework to phase in Green Tech and Phase out pooey, smelly, filthy coal and other antiquated non sustainable fuels and their associated tech.

The problem in Australia is not the price of wages, it is the corporate profit ratio. Things are not priced on the value of the item + costs (wages, transport, sales point) but rather on what the corporates think you can afford. I would estimate that they ramp up the price of imported product by at least a factor of 5 on top of costs.

The middle class balinese may earn less, but they have the same things in their shops and in their homes that we have. Australians may earn more on the one hand, but on the other it is all taken away.

REGULATION - it is but a game of maths.

It costs less than $25,000 to build an exotic villa here in Bali. They are then sold for on avg $n.a.250,000 to silly retirees with more money than sense.

MY wife can buy one (non Indos cannot) for $50,000.

CAVEAT EMPTOR

*The world is growning under the strain of over population.*

Yup it is, for they are breeding like rabbits in parts of the
third world. I agree with Attenborough.

*I would estimate that they ramp up the price of imported product by at least a factor of 5 on top of costs.*

Ah DreamOn, perhaps you are just dreaming on. I remind you that
the profit/turnover figures for such public corporations as Coles, Woolies, Target, K-Markt and many others, are available each year
for public scrutiny. If you are a shareholder, they will send you
an annual report. Net profits usually run around 2-7c in the
Dollar, hardly a rip off. The figures also show the real problem,
ie high costs of doing business in Australia.

But if you think that you can do better, you are free to have a go,
import from China and give the public value for money. You will
have consumers flocking to your door and make a fortune it seems.
Unless of course you are wrong in your estimates, in which case you
would lose the shirt on your back.

OK, we have YappyNomics

well at least you have taken eye off rorting Old Age Pensioners ... for a while

Well, internet ordering is good. Plus combined shipping by the 20 or 40' container load with plenty of super dry.

Say a range of products from half a dozen factories orchestrated by one logistics company, and you include the cost of buying your own container for back and forth, back and forth.

An entire strata title retirement village with everyone throwing in for their personal wish list culminating in a stuff filled container for "ChristMass" should do the trick.

What's the key? Knowledge Nation. ;-)Share your minds and your knowledge for collective benefit and take a step toward West meeting East. Yes, don't run around in the shadows but speak openly of things of import.

Give the agents and other legal parasites a miss, do your study to ensure legal compliancy and viability starting with the guvment web sites (say Customs) and above all enjoy.

1 issue - a lot of countries engage in regional pricing. That is to say, if your australian you pay a higher price for the same thing. Negotiate ..

..

Yappy, seriously? That's called creative accounting. Let's take a practical example. I'm wearing a set of head phones. It cost about $AU10 at the most expensive place on the island.

For the sake of argument, though I suspect about $2, let's say that a big oz retailer purchased a container load in bulk for $5 each. Now, when last in Perth, the retailer was flogging them for $50.

Why don't you tell us where the extra $40 per set went?

1. Additional Legal compliancy = ?
2. Additional Tax = ?
3. Additional Wages = ?
4. Additional Transport = ?
5. Additional Premises = ?

6. ADDITIONAL PROFITS = ?

DreamOn, what large listed companies do is certainly not creative
accounting, or they would be hauled before the courts by the ACCC
and shareholders could sue the auditors for misleading information.

People can already go online and buy electronic goods etc from
China, Hong Kong, much cheaper then they are available here. Many
do, many can't be bothered for much shopping relies on impulse buying.

We already have 2$ shops, dicount warehouses etc, which just sell
for cheap. If people want bargains, they have to hunt around for
them.

But what a large % of people do is head for the nearest shopping
centre, where everything is convenient. Those shopping centres
commonly charge 1000$ per square metre rent per year, plus a %
of turnover, eg 10%. The shop assistant standing there picking
her nose or whatever, has to be paid for. Not only her wage,
but holiday pay, long service leave, sick leave, superannuation,
workers comp, any termination payments, payroll tax etc. Add it all up per
hour, she does not come cheap, even with no customers. All those
costs have to be passed on, or the store is out of business.

So yes, those niche retailers work on high margins, or they don't
survive.

Clearly we have different concepts of what constitutes "creative accounting."

I note with interest the co-incidental news broadcasts of further pushes for executive salaries to be capped to $AU600,000 by the Greens & the Unions and a report on the heads of the big retailers .

Yes people can purchase on line but that remains an undeveloped segment of the market. And of course, shipping needs to be done in bulk to become comparatively competetive and affordable.

And there remains the issues of asian sellers in particular, but not only them, having one price for say australian people and another price for say indonesian people.

I predict that as some form of "knowledge nation" comes more and more into public awareness, that these sorts of issues will become more and more openly discussed to the benefit of the public.

$AU2 shops? If you understand economies of scale, and the chinese merchants in my observation are masters of it, the lower the price, the greater the relative % of profit. $2 here supports an orphan for a day, including education. And what do you say, a piece of chinese plastic in the $2 shop which has probably been bought for $2 for a kilo is good value? I think *DivDoc* has got it right. "Yappynomics"

So, in my view, corporate australia ad those that represent them have become a stultifying, pillar of salt effector upon the consciousness of the nation and they require identifying in the public eye and regulation for the benefit of the majority, not the minority.

I personally find it objectionable these claims that the high costs of product are a direct result of the wages of hard working class australians. Greedy landowners and greedy executives are much more the problem.

As for the beguiled shopper of the glitter tech - I find australian's quickly become pragmatic and frugal when they know they can buy the same thing for a 1/5 of the price.

*I personally find it objectionable these claims that the high costs of product are a direct result of the wages of hard working class australians. Greedy landowners and greedy executives are much more the problem.*

In that case DreamOn, you are busy dreaming on and don't know how
to use a calculator. Take a look at a group like Wesfarmers, which
employs something like 300'000 people these days. A million
$ represents 4$ per employee, so hardly matters. But having a top
management team, which makes the correct decisions, is vital,
as they presently try to turn around the failed Coles business.

To do that they searched the world for the best talent and experience.
Executives with a track record of achievement in the field, are
not going to shift country, shift their families, sell their houses
and move to Australia, for peanuts. Wether you pay them 1 million
or two million, hardly matters in the budget but it certainly matters
in the results and who you can hire.

Hey its a free market in Australia, anyone can set up shop. If you
and the Greens have all the answers, so go and set up those
businesses and show us how its done. Put up or shut up.

LOL - Who's dreaming YabbY? The so called talent that you allude to due to alleged reckless greed has just "collectively" crashed and brought down the international financial system.

And yet, people like you and ShadowM continue to advocate for over the top executive salaries and bonuses, confusing talent and expertise for "reckless greed."

I don't think that the subject is even worthy of debate any longer.

One of the fundamentals that I'd hope you'd appreciate is that when you have artificially inflated prices, say for a piece of junk plastic at $AU2 per piece, what you are in effect doing is devaluing the currency. The same applies in the instance of parking machines no longer accepting 5c pieces.

As for all the answers, no, I am but a novice relative to some, but neither am I entirely clueless.

I do not advocate on this matter for personal benefit, which is why I suggest that talented pensioners, with kids helping to do the paperwork and grandkids to do the unloading, would be better served ordering online by container as a collective direct.

The chinese for example would get more orders, a greater share of our shopping money and would be more happy about paying for more resources.

Beautiful - everyone is happy except for the big retailers.

;-)

Clearly you are still dreaming on, Dream On. If you followed the
present crisis in America, you would know that it was the people
who elected a dummy like George Bush and Dick Cheney. It was Cheney/
Bush, who appointed a regulator at the SEC, who thought regulation
was not required. Now if you have no enforcement of rules, criminals
will thrive. That is what happened on Wall St and has little to do
with grocery chain executives.

*which is why I suggest that talented pensioners, with kids helping to do the paperwork and grandkids to do the unloading,*

So you are going to use kids and grandkids for cheap labour! Careful
of those child labour laws, its illegal in Australia, we are not
in Indonesia here. But of course you could hire staff and pay them
their full entitlements, according to the award.

*and would be more happy about paying for more resources.*

Crap. The Chinese always want things even cheaper. To them
bargaining is a game, a war if you like. Whatever the price, they
will always complain. Its how they do business

It is somewhat dissappointing to see my original post degenerate into a battle between Users on subjects unrelated to the original topic.
Perhaps I Posted to the wrong Forum in seeking support for Pensioners of all types.
The way costs have increased in the past two years and stil increasing means Pensioners are going backwards and the incredible increase that we will inherit in September has already been taken care of by way of increases to Utilities, in Victoria any way.
Whilst some of us can manage better than others, I am mostly concerned about Pensioners who do not have the privilege of owning their own home and having to pay exhorbitant private rentals.
I am rather concerned that there are people out there who do not seem to understand the plight of these Pensioners. Not all people have been able to lead the fortunate life and put money away into Super and other Schemes for use in later life. Some people suffer misfortune, not of their own choosing, during their lifetime, which places them in the situation they now find themselves in, not being able to manage on the current level of welfare.
To say the Welfare Bill is too large for our Government to handle, well it is nigh on time that the Government sorted out some priorities. What is more important, looking after our Aged, Disabled and Sick or wasting money hand over fist on unneccessary trips overseas, financial assistance to other Countries, environmental issues, immigration and many other things whose priorities fall within the lower levels. Charity begins at home looking after our own people and community interests, first. If there is someting left over after our Countries interests have been taken care of, then by all means provide assistance to outsiders. It is quite apparrent that Governments have great difficuly in differentiating between, WE Need and It Would Be Nice to Have, when sorting out Priorities.
Please show some compassion towards members of our own community who are not so well off as you may be.

Some people suffer misfortune, not of their own choosing, during their lifetime, which places them in the situation they now find themselves in, not being able to manage on the current level of welfare.
--
agreed. In my case I suffered a 1 in 9 misfortune in the Vietnam Lottery, but came back and by age 42 received The President's Award in Carrier/UTC over 18,000 other employees, but all my diligence simply made me a prime target for the 1 in 2 chance of losing the lot in the lousy family court. So I am really looking forward to my pension in 6 months

--
To say the Welfare Bill is too large for our Government to handle, well it is nigh on time that the Government sorted out some priorities.
--

agreed also and that plea by govt is crap by its own figures where is says it must save 1 billion pa by increase in age to 67 but in that same year actually had 65 billion "left over" to put into a Future Fund [contrary to Constitution by the way] to pay people who only partially funded their super as "fat cats".

Nasho 23, you make many valid points, but I am afraid that the
reality of the gravy train of Australian welfare, is starting to
come to a screeching halt.

Last time I checked, there were around 8 million sucking on the
welfare teat in one way or another, which is as many as taxpayers.

Any young girl who feels like getting up the stick and popping out
a few kids, can do so, taxpayers pick up the bill. Eventually
the old cow is going to run out of milk, with ever more sucking
on those teats.

So people will have to start helping themselves. Move to the
country, where rents are much lower. Grow a few veggies, run a few
chooks. Do some babysitting for cash. The Govt coffers are
empty I am afraid.

YappY, I am starting to get the impression that there is more people here than just I that would consider that what you "think" is reality is actually delusion.

Re your 2nd last post, I fail to comprehend your meaning in your opening rant about bush turkey and cheney.

Re kids - I am a 40yr old kid who recently lost my granny and had previously done a lot of paperwork for on line marker purchases to make her $AU50 left over from her fortnightly budget go further. She was fortunate enough to have her own home though at one point though.

I was also a teenager who did a lot of lugging for my other grandparents on the farm from there to where the purple crowned lorries fly. Your comments re child abuse are silly and would perhaps better be directed towards the liberal party and those involved with locking up children in the desert without trial or charge, contrary to expert medical advice. The fact that howard still walks freely among us on outrageous benefits and special super concessions is where the money is really going.

Now, in my spare time, I track down cheap go fares for an ex vietnam vet and his mates and contribute to making sure that they do not fall afoul of the indo legal system in matters of marriage, immigration etc. This is done for free, for a mate who even though he imbibes too much of the amber fluid, would otherwise find balancing the books too tuff.

Back to online markets, I hope for better home grown versions to arise - but EBay is good. Why not buy something 2nd hand from a local? Then maybe adventure out to an interstate import. Read the customs site. Don't import prohibited goods. Have a look at the aust post site. & then have a go at an international packet. It's all very secure with EBay and their dispute resolution mechanisms are very good outside postage costs.

Once u've become adept at these things and the whole process has been de-mystified and put on a nice chronological linear line, maybe advertise for an nternational student to do some part time work and have them take you past the language barrier whilst web surfing to where the international local economy prices are to be had.

I used to visit one of the retirement villages regularly, and there are to be sure some very switched on oldies amongst them.

Enterprise is often born of necessity and I have a heart for those singles pensioners on $500+ per fortnight and no home of their own.

Consider voting for other than blue or red.

To confirm what I was saying about some Pensioners, of all types, finding things difficult due to rising costs being a real concern.
In our own case, we have just received our House and Contents Insurance policy renewal, for a Premium of $844.
Years 2007 and 2008 were $717 & $723, respectively. How can a Premium increase of $121 be justified. AAMI stated they have had a BAD Year for claims and we just have to suffer it.
Our Council Rates are about to increase by 4.5% also, and so it goes on.
Many people in the Community do not concern themselves with the plight of the Pensioners, because they are somewhat better off and have never been confronted with the problems faced by Pensioners, living from day to day and having to worry over how they are going to manage to buy food and pay the bills.
People, in general, should start to care more, because, due to circumstances beyond their control, these people may well find themselves in the same position.

Nasho, I don't think its that people don't care, but the whole
baby boomer generation is fully aware that as more people retire,
there simply won't be enough Govt money available due to the change
in demographics, so the best to help ourselves are always ourselves.

A lot of oldies draw a pension, but also live in houses that are
now worth a small fortune in the inner suburbs. Do some of those
kids really need to inherit million $ homes? IMHO pensioners
should look after themvelves and their own wellbeing, first and
foremost.

Now I am aware that many cannot help themselves, but an awfull lot
can and so they should.

My view is that it is not justified either *Nasho*

Some of these so called "Fat Cats," played a not insignificant role in bringing the financial system down and yet you listen to some of them and the likes of their supporters like *YabbY* and they feel that it is their right to keep their salaries and perks over the top and all the while their insurance companies or banks have been virtually bankrupted and some of them have been. Consequently, they put their hands out for everyone else, the pensioners and the workers to pay for their excessive life styles and over inflated opinions of themselves.

Truth is, business is not rocket science and business people are mostly not rocket scientists, for want of a better term.

However, the culture in this place is for them as a collective to bleed the average folk until there's nothing left to have.

In a civilised society, at least by my definition, food, water, shelter, medicine and law are a right and accordingly need to be regulated such that it is readily abundant for all.

I have no problem with the fat cats paying full price but the pensioners should also be afforded these things.

Thereafter, my interest is with innovation and technology, because manufacture of "new" things first for the home market and then for export is what will bring big international money streams into this country for the potential benefit of all. Thus, I would not invest in incapable business people with a bad track record in current times, but rather in people with the talent to create.

Look at lawyers. They contribute very little new to society and really are just glorified administrators. And to look at the update of new technology in the courts and you could easily conclude as I have that these people are operating in the "dark ages" with their grossly time and paper wasting practices.

Another example perhaps. The ex CEO of telstra and his bloated pay package. I just shudder when thinking about it. Here's the thing.

I have an older passport jacket. It was issued in 2004. On it are all the international numbers for AustraliaDirect, a local number in the country of question which patches you thru to an Australian operator for the purposes of making a reverse charge call - say for a medical emergency insurance matter.

In 2006 it worked - come 2008 and no longer. Don't know exactly when the service went down.

I went to the telstra help site. Pitiful doesn't say it. No help for a question of this kind. No category for "other." The operators, several emails later were still pushing out irrelevant pre-written material and never responded to the salient issue.

I wrote to foreign affairs about two matters. They responded quickly to the first unrelated matter, but no comment re Australia Direct.

What a waste of money paying that particular clown was.

*Truth is, business is not rocket science and business people are mostly not rocket scientists,*

DreamOn, well clearly its beyond you lol. Fact is that four out of
five small businesses still close down, as their owners are busy
dreaming, much like yourself.

What on earth has what happened in America, got to do with Australia?
The American people voted for George Bush, he screwed up, everyone
pays. That is democracy for you, not perfect, but the best that we
have.

Yup, insurance rates would be going up in Victoria, they have just
had lots of big fires. Don't blame the insurers, they simply pass
on their costs. In was Victorian Govt inaction which meant that
there were huge fuel loads in the countryside, ready to burn.

West Australians are miles ahead on this stuff, but learn the hard
way. Sadly its pensioners who get hit with these increasing
premiums as well. Blame your politicians, not the insurers, for
they don't make the rules.

What Telstra paid its CEO, is really up to the shareholders. If you
don't like Telstra, so go elsewhere.

As arrogant as the last fella was, he got the basics very right.
He got rid of many conflicting systems, with huge maintenance costs
for each of them and brought in a whole new single platform, which
saves huge amounts each year in maintenance. The net result was
that I have access to mobile broadband at quite reasonable cost,
cheaper in fact then the old backward dial up.

When Telstra was still Govt owned, they used to slug me up to 9$
per hour for internet access, they were so backward.

So in the bigger scheme of things, whatever they paid the last guy,
hardly matters. But that is really up to the shareholders, so unless
you are a shareholder, its really none of your business.

I'd like to make a couple of extra comments for the interested pensioners in the group.

As for you though yappy, I find that your coherency has degenerated below standard and also point out as of last I heard, the australian government was still the largest shareholder in Telstra, and not to go into historical ownership issues, that makes it the business of all Australian's, so your assertions about it not being our business seem to be somewhat more absurd than usual.

..

Back to the matter at hand, making the Ozzie Pensioners $'s go further. The online markets is one example that I have offered when challenged by yappy to make a thoughtful contribution.

To go on, I note that in the main stream news we have had the qld liberal party make a contribution re EBay recently, and also had the sale of tickets for dinner for four with *PM Rudd* Last bid I saw was $AU15,000 and climbing.

As for foreign imports, here is an interesting listing that I just noticed. It's not something that I'd personally recommend as it falls into the category of what I call "donate to an ex-pat" but do not otherwise dispute that it may well suit the purposes of some people

AND

for the purposes of this discussion certainly gives you and idea of what's both credibly available and achievable.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/IMPORT-FRM-CHINA-IMPORT-WITH-AN-ENGLISH-BLOKE-IN-CHINA_W0QQitemZ220425786042QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Wholesale_Lists?hash=item33526692ba&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1308|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Until the next thread, best of luck.