Ohhhh NOoooo pelican. I was loving your post so much until

'We are all victims of media pressure'

examinator,

'The assumptions from 'the two' are rather depressing. Being so dominated by sex when surrounded by so many unattainables would indeed be grounds for frustration and over emphasis.'
Am I in 'the two'? I'm the one depressed by Fraccys view of all men being characatures of Benny Hill. Do keep up.

'One assumes H simply likes to talk tough/dirty/in your face in the belief it confirms his maleness.'

Ah so much obsession about people's maleness here. Where have I talked tough or dirty or in anyone's face? I'm not the one yelling at people to 'GET A LIFE YOU WEAK INSECURE LITTLE WALLY'S'. I did admit to enjoying the spirit in that quote, but what have I done to give you this opinion? Why are you so obessed with people's maleness? Are you insecure in your own maleness? Let's explore that.

Ginx,

'Examinator,-pleasant to see a comment from an individual.'
Huh?

'None of the women on this forum sniffle into lace hankies. Don't be disingenuous here gentlemen; you know that they can hold their own intellectually'
Noone has suggested otherwise. Except you.

'Have you enjoyed your pack hunt?
Are you pleased?'
Where is the 'pack hunt'? That's laughable man. Why do you assume since I outlined a question from antiseptic that went unanswered, I am now no longer an individual, but more a wild dog? So in any topic, anyone who agrees with the OP 'entered into the intended spirit of this discussion', those who didn't agree are part of a 'pack hunt'?

'You have dominated and stifled any discussion, and by doing that, rather proved just what you are denying!!'
Ok you've got me there. How can one dominate or stifle discussion when everyone gets the same post limit. And what is it I'm denying?

Are you two really serious? I mean it. Are you joking?

If you are not, then you really are struggling to grasp what I have said, which I'm not going to repeat.

Septic: you are an unintelligent little squit with a rather worrying obsession about Pomeranians and humping. Get help. You are not really worth wasting time on.

Houelles: you are the one that confuses me....man. YOU really can't see why I blew? Really?

Has it even occurred to you that you (two), that at whatever time you came into this thread-and however many posts you have made,- (really septic-you have too much time on your hands. Put your bean counter away and concentrate on your business), - you just persist, and persist,...and PERSIST in showing me the error of my ways.

Doesn't that suggest anything to you......hello?....ANYTHING??

You two are feeding off each other.

Sad, and pathetic.

Well Houley just for you - I should have said we are all exposed to the media rather than victims of media pressure.

I wasn't playing the victim mentality, merely arguing that we all live on the same planet with the same pressures but why do some succumb and others not. That is the question Horatio.

Pelican, great post with lots of truisms! But I agree with
Houllie, forget the "victim" thinggy.

Self esteem etc, has to be sorted out on a personal level
and from within, after much self reflection. If you know
yourself (I don't mean you specifically here Pelican)
know your own good and bad points, know why you think
as you do, you won't need constant approval from everyone
else.

Yes, some people go through life, constantly anxious about
what others think, constantly trying to impress others.
Their low self esteem is a problem of their own mind,
not of the world around them.

Yes, America is largely a fairly superficial place,
I call it a "McDonald's society" . Everything is about
projecting image. False boobs, false eyelashes, plastic
flowers, etc. All too shallow for me. Some years ago,
when I was first on the internet in the mid 90s, there
was an amazing programme called Freetel. I was the resident
psychiatrist there for a while, for sick Americans :)

This bird from Virginia contaced me and by about the
second post, she sent me a ready made file, for she
wanted a husband. Pictures of her hanging up the washing,
her doing the dishes, etc. I suggested that I was perhaps
not the man for her lol, after which she then wanted advice
about those men she was considering on her list. Hilarious
really, but also a sad reflection on US society today.

*And vice versa, a plainish person who might not attract someone in the street, but once known to someone becomes more beautiful by the merits of their personality.*

Absolutaly! They are also the people who don't need to flash their
perky breasts to achieve happiness and contentment in life, nor
worry about botox and the wrinklies.

Ahhhooooooo! Even wild dogs hunt on self interest Ginx. Has it ever occurred to you we're feeding off you?

I definately have no alliances with antiseptic. I do find fascination with the apparent anger inside him, and I am interested in how posters treat him in comparison with Fractelle ( I think Fractelle has just as many problems with men as anti has with women).

With regards to my persistance, well I thank you for your compliments. Just think if good 'ol Fraccy had said 'yep, I was mistaken, nobody did deny assessing women in a sexual way. I don't know where I got that from, but what of it. Let's move on. I'm sorry I called everyone dishonest', instead of impersonating comical Ali.

I don't know why you're taking all this so personally, I like your style and if anything I identify more with you than antiseptic. Hey, maybe we can be the two beautiful doves who fly away from those rabid wild dogs. It's all I ever wanted from Fractelle! sniff.

As for Foxy, well I never did deal well with authority figures. See it's just consistancy I'm a stickler for.

I can see that you are now trying to be a good boy.........................

But Houellebecq; that last line was cutting. If it was consistency you were after, why put that at the end of your post?

'Authority figure'? Come on! Foxy always looks for the good side of people, hardly authoritarian.

I never look for the good side because I don't believe there is one.

AND I have repeatedly referred to the problems both sexes face in what is expected of them. I have far more sympathy with men on that score.

Fractelle wasn't going to say she was mistaken if she did not feel that she was. Is that why you kept on? Because you wanted her to admit something she didn't feel?

Can't you see Houelles, that if there had been such distortion of men's perception of women here-the blokes on OLO would have been on this thread tearing the 'feminazi's' apart. (I use that word ONLY to distinguish the strength of feeling of some blokes).

Happy with the dove part...? (I have two in my garden Bonnie and Clyde, who have taken up permanent residence. I don't mind them, except for the incessant opening of their bowels over my car!).