Pericles

Thank you for your considered response.

Probably I have already answered my own question - that the magazines simply wouldn't sell.

Maybe I didn't give the attention to your posts on the Susan Boyle thread that they deserved given your response here.

I was absolutely gob-smacked at the claims by Graham. And I would've had serious words if this thread had not been approved. I didn't expect anymore than I got from Houllie or Col - they're rather obvious. But I let their responses affect me.

I guess we still have a long way to go though, just because male and female brains are wired a little differently doesn't mean that women have to always be evaluated on appearance as to their intrinsic worth. I still believe that most men see women as people, with exceptions like religious leaders, a few too many politicians and those men with self esteem issues.

I took the test linked to below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/add_user.shtml

Turns out (according to this test) that my general pattern of thinking is ever so slightly skewed towards male pattern thinking - whatever that means. It was fun to do although I think there are too many variables to take the results of a single test too seriously.

I'd be interested to find out other people's test results.

Graham Y: 'Of course I check women out.'

Pericles: 'doubt you will find anywhere a denial from me that I "look, appraise and evaluate". My partner even compliments me upon the discretion with which these actions are accomplished.'

Col: women check blokes out and judge us just as much as we judge them.

CJ: despite being a man who shamelessly delights in 'appraising' the female form

Myself: Just who was 'trying to claim that they don't assess women's appearance'? Personally I 'assess' womens appearance

Where are all these men who 'denied assessing women in a sexual way'?

Fractelle, you may say 'most men see women as people', and that's great if it's true you believe that, but when you assert that in a whole audience every male who sees a woman performer instantly goes over her in his head and categerises her as 'f&ckable' or not, it lends to a very different opinion of men.

Thanks for an original and interesting thread topic, Fractelle - something sorely missing from OLO these days.

I don't think men's and women's magazines can't be compared accurately without taking into account the different priorities of the sexes when it comes to mating. Men are attracted to the physical appearance of women, so magazines aimed at us contain appealing images of women. Likewise, women place more emphasis on emotional and commitment vales than sheer physicality, and women's mags are full to the brim with stories of romance and true love.

For those reasons, I think Cleo and Vogue can be compared fairly with Ralph and FHM (though not Zoo, which takes the low road of puerile shock value for its teenage readership.)

I must, though, take issue with your assertion that the articles in men's mags are "lowbrow". Men like sport and cars and military stuff. Articles on such topics are no more lowbrow than the endless cycle of "how to know if your man is cheating" pieces in women's mags.

Remember, too, that Playboy's popularity was built primarily on pictures of naked women, but secondarily on the consistent good quality of its articles, and the new generation of men's mags are nowhere near as explicit in their images.

*We may find that they satisfy similar corners of the brain, or something like that.*

I think that Pericles has it about right, yet once again. Every
Saturday I pick up my weekend papers from the newsagent, where
they are put away for me. On the cupboard door they usually
hang the latest Cleo poster. So for some amusement I tend to
read out aloud the subjects covered in this week's Cleo,
from how to use the internet for sexual pleasure onwards.

The 50 something year old lady who serves me usually blushes in
all colours :) I claim to be innocently reading the Cleo
poster, but some female customers start giggling and say
that I would not want to know what they really are thinking
about :)

So I can only conclude that many women prefer to read about
things to get their thrills, wheras men can perhaps be more
visual and also a bit more open and honest.

Cleo would not be publishing this stuff, if some women did not
pay good money to read about it.

Dear Fractelle,

I'm glad that I can surprise you.

I surprise myself at times.

I remember Cleo's first centrefold - I think
it was of Jack Thompson - that left me all hot and
bothered. But then, so did some of the more realistic
photos of women in Penthouse - which I found more erotic
and not "plasticky" like the ones in Playboy.

One of my favourite photos is the one by Annie Leibowitz,
of Joko (fully clothed), and John Lennon
next to her, naked. Loved it and had it mounted on my
study wall.

Aside from magazines - I do have a certain
liking for nudes, as well as other works of that ilk.
For example, - Norman Lindsay's, "The Sphinx,"
Gustave Klimt's work. And of course there's Georgia O'Keefe's
erotic flowers. Then there's Michelangelo...

Now I'm drooling.

I've been thinking about the mens magazines/womens magazines thing and wondering if there is not something just a little more basic about this whole question of most women not being particularly excited at the thought of a mag that had pictures of naked men in it.

I once saw a photo that had apparently appeared as a centrefold spread in a women's mag. It showed an entire football team naked. I laughed until I cried.

Now, I apologise deeply to the men who are reading this: I am not saying the male body is ridiculous. But the censorship is.

Its against the law to portray an erect penis, yeah? So what we had in this photo was a whole mob of buff, beautifully proportioned guys with their flaccid bits dangling paley and - and this is the point - disproportionately in the wind, or plopped onto a tree-trunk and looking for all the world like some species of witchitee grubs!

C'mon: - I'm pretty sure most men who saw it would have thought it funny too.

Yet, had these blokes been shown um..at the top of their form, so to speak, I defy anyone to laugh. It would have been sexy. And yep! Just as some women feel inadequate faced with photos of other naked women, some men would feel inadequate or self-conscious about their own bodies in comparison to photos of other guys more beautifully wrought.

When guys look at stick-pics, such is the anatomy of the female form that she is ALWAYS ...well...ready for action. But when women look at male nudes they are, because of the law, most definitely NOT in a state of readyness. They look kinda vulnerable, and childlike and yes, according to how they are placed, kinda funny. The very antithesis to sexual fantasies.

So perhaps the dearth of comparative magazines for men and women has more to do with the laws of the land, and less to do with gendered differences?