I'd reckon that the margin the servos charge is about 50%.

Antiseptic, if you're in business you will understand that a 50% margin is not unreasonable, esspecially considering the amount of items they sell either at a loss, or with very low margins.

Papers is one, about 5 cents on a $2 sale. Someone has to unwrap the papers and put them on the shelf then scan them when sold, then collect the returns, bundle them up, record them and so on. Meanwhile the papers are taking up valuable merchandising space.

I agree with yabby, if people want the extra wages and conditions then they will have to pay, or pay the untimate price which is closure of many small businesses.

Now just back to your gas bottle.
Someone drove from the debot and collected the empty bottle.
Then they reurned it to the depot.
Someone unloaded it into storage.
Then it was taken to the filling area.
Then it was filled.
Then it was placed on a pallet and stored.
It was then forked on to the truck.
The driver then delivered it.
They first had unlock the cage and clear it of empty ones.
They then put the bottle in the cage and re-locked it.
The attenent had to hand over the key and make the transaction.
It all costs money. Wait till the new laws come in.

My beef is not the cost of the convenience, but moreso the fact that they are getting free gas when a bottle is returned with some contents remaining. We should get a credit for this but if someone had to weigh the bottle upon return then this adds to the costs.

Manwhile I get fined for not allowing for 10 grams of plastic on a 5 kilo sale.

rehctub, I may not have made myself clear: I don't blame the servos for making a 50% profit (although i suspect it's nearer to 100$, given $23 is a retail price), but I do blame the wholesalers for making a much larger profit than is justified by the service. The unit cost of transport is not great, nor is the amortised cost of the cylinders, nor is the filling process as time-intensive as it is for a single fill, since the person running the filling operation would no doubt have several cylinders on the go at once and possibly even have automation to assist.

As I said, if the boutique operation can retail at $23 and the charge for swapping is $35, then someone is profiteering.

The servos are pretty good at it too, especially in their "shop" items. I make a policy of never purchasing anything other than fuel at service stations for that reason. I'd rather go without than support profiteering.

Antiseptic, I've hed a few shares in companies like Origin and
Boral for years now. If they were profiteering, it would be
reflected in profits, which would show in the balance sheet.

AS you might know, Origin and Boral split some years ago, we
shareholders got half of each. Boral are around where they
were 13 or so years ago, the first time that Origin have made
any real money is since they discovered CSG and sold a large
share of that to an overseas buyer, before Britsh Gas could
buy them.

What sinks all these large companies is enormous costs at every turn.
Most of them land up being lucky to land up with 5% of turnover as
actual profit.

We have one of those Origin cages in town, I'll go and ask what
they charge and compare it to the guy down the road who fills up
empties.

It is probably time to fess up and admit I don't really believe the high price is caused by anyone making huge profits. Not because of any of the arguments raised here, but simply because there are several companies doing this swap thing, and I have faith in competition keeping prices sane. The real issue is we have allowed a hopelessly inefficient way of putting LPG into a bottle to prosper. It is like a cancer in our economy. Our capitalist system is supposed to root out such cancers, so it bizarre to see it grow and prosper instead.

As for how to fix it - well there is one solution I hate and would oppose. That is any notion the government should somehow try to regulate the prices, like for example threatening to investigate price gouging. There is only one circumstance where such intervention is justifiable - where there is a monopoly in operation.

Fixing it will probably require a combination of things. Someone needs to come up with a way filling LPG bottles from LPG bowsers. The government has to change the regulations to allow it. Normally I would also say the government must distort the market for a short while to get the conversion process kick started, but in this case the $9 vs $35 prices difference should be more than enough incentive. It sounds like a wonderful business opportunity to me - for someone with the energy and perseverance to see it through.

rehctub, the problem getting rid of the gas in the bottle has already been solved for car LPG bowsers. I don't know what the solution is, but whatever it is works and is cheap to implement.

I think the problem is parity pricing.

Our government has agreed to the companies harvesting oil, & gas, in Oz, setting their prices in relation to the Singapore price of petroleum. Have you noticed how the price of LPG stays at a similar ratio to the price pf petrol?

I suppose we had to agree to this rip off, in order to get the oil companies to do the exploration, in the first place.

The price climb was dramatic.

20 years ago I had a gas stove & a gas HWS. I had a large tank, installed out side. A tanker came once every 2 months & filled the tank, charging for the gas supplied.

It averaged $11.50 a fill, or $6.25 a month. 5 years later it was costing $26 per fill, or $13 per month.

About 15 years ago, they advised us that the tanker service was being discontinued. The supplier replaced our large tank, with 2 x 80Lb bottles. When one emptied, we switched to the other, & ordered a replacement full bottle. A bottle lasted a couple of months.

At $27.50 a bottle, the price was similar, although harder to keep track of, as the time to replacement varied considerably

About 4 years ago, I noticed the bottle was lasting only 5 weeks, [a 30% reduction, although the system was serviced, & less people were using it. Has there been a change in the gas supplied, making it less effective?

By now the cost of the bottle was costing over $100 exchange, or $80 per month.

I now have an electeric stove, & hot water system.

I am still being ripped off, but a little less so. However, if Ruddy gets his way, the rip off is about to rise, dramatically.

Hasbeen, twenty years ago I put in a solar hot water system. Its
been great for 20 years, free hot water for most of the year.

I checked our local prices for 9 kg gas bottles, in country WA.

The machinery dealership has an Origin swop system and charges
29.50$.

The hardware place has a swop system too, they charge 32.50. If
you want them to fill your own bottle, they charge 38.50, to allow
for their extra labour cost and mucking around. So there you go!

Sounds like your camping store is giving you a bargain, Antiseptic.