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The Forum > General Discussion > Beware : Patriotism and jingoism one is abused the other abuse.

Beware : Patriotism and jingoism one is abused the other abuse.

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How low will some people go?
Recently some ‘cowardly low lifes” have emailed clanging the patriotism bell both loudly and discordantly. The email was also sent to some residents of a retirement village it looked like a communiqué by Kevin Rudd which it advocated in essence that Muslims specifically and others should adopt our ways or go back from whence they came while
This has frightened a number old older people in this village. Both people who were born here and/or migrated here and now retired were frightened of attacks from “gangs /neighbours”. Also it has encouraged the less thoughtful in the wider community to abuse ‘foreign’ neighbours.

Mum told me, Doubting its authenticity (political and diplomatic suicide) I contacted Rudd’s web site and his office THE EMAIL IS BOGUS. Apparently the village management had taken calls from some from residents about safety in the last day or so and wondered why. They then send a communication clarifying that people were safe and that the email was a hoax. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but this behaviour is unacceptable

I often quot a 19th century British politician/philosopher etc Dr Samuel Johnson who coined “patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” …by that he meant that if the only justification given for a position is patriotism beware its probably emotional manipulation.

Patriotism is a result of your actions not a reason or excuse for them.
i.e. Serving in real war of survival (WW2) as opposed to one to enforce National Pride (Falklands), of control/influence (Iraq, Vietnam etc.) or to gain more territory (Israel/Palestine, either side’s perspective).
To deny (aggressively) the faults of ones country/politics is to deny reality which is foolish…not patriotism. Therefore to attempt to convert either the leaving or receiving culture is simply jingoism.

NB. There is a world of differences between patriotism which is positive and jingoism (this email) which isn’t
Posted by examinator, Thursday, 19 February 2009 12:35:54 PM
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Dear examinator,

I'm so sorry to hear about that email that frightened
so many elderly people. Bigotry is based on fear,
and it's a shame that fanatics feel the compulsion
to spread their hatred.

My father was extremely suspicious of self-proclaimed
'patriots.' I guess because in his country the ones
with the 'loudest voices' ended up selling
the country out. They became the staunchest members of
the communist party.

The true partisans worked silently.

He always said - it was your actions not your words that
mattered. Not how you spoke, but what was in your heart.

I think most Australians are proud of their country and
its achievements. The 'Australian Way of Life' is highly
valued and assumed to be among the best in the world.
And, what I find reassuring is that most of us don't
embrace anything blindly. We don't slide easily into
unquestioning obedience, 'My country right or wrong.'
We do tend to question things - and that's healthy.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 19 February 2009 4:46:24 PM
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Ah Examinator… I read the first part of your post and you almost convinced me you were back on the meds until you wrote

“Serving in real war of survival (WW2) as opposed to one to enforce National Pride (Falklands),”

The Falklands war was fought to repel the illegal occupation by the forces of an Argentinean Dictator.

The British did not ask the Argentineans to invade.

The British task force fought to overcome the aggressor and succeeded in that task.

National pride was not the issue, the right of Falkland islanders to determine the their own future is what was at stake, just the same as the East Timorese (were the East Timorese fighting "National Pride" too or were they entitled to determine their future and not the future which Indonesia carved out for them?

I suppose you would follow Whitlam’s Indonesian appeasement strategy which has since been denounced as a national disgrace by his own civil servants now free to comment.

I would have denounced Whitlam and

as I would ahve denounced Chamberlain in the run up to WWII, a war which was a war, no different to the Falklands.

but which you seem to think was somehow “different” because it suits your childish prattle.

I recall it was never made a party of the general election which happened a year or so later, until Dennis Healey, senior labour party politician criticized Thatcher over it…

Then it was gloves off and all able bodied to the defense

The result…

The UK Labour party routed and in disarray and Margaret Thatcher in for another couple of terms…the overwhelming majority of the British electorate full square behind her and her defense of the principles of democratic representation against the criminal actions of a military dictator.

You just don’t have a clue what it was about… you sad little man

Get over yourself Examinator.. with a name like that I am surprised you have time to write,

I would think you spent most of your time with hand inside a rubber glove, inside the backside of a cow.
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 19 February 2009 5:26:02 PM
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Examinator,
Why would you deem someone a 'cowardly low life' for expressing a point of view and advocating that all in Australia adopt our way of life. Is there more to this that you are not saying or is it another troll?

I and the majority of Australians, expect everyone to obey and respect our laws and community/social standards. If anyone does not agree with that, then they do not deserve to live here and receive all the benefits that we enjoy.

If I had my way, I would introduce a discrimatory immigration policy which would bar those cultures who have clearly shown they have no respect for us, our laws and our culture. We should not tolerate those that cause friction and community problems.

Ther are millions pf potential migrants and if we continue with high immigration, which I also appose, we do not have to take all and sundry, but select those that will give us a cohesive society.

It is our country and we have an obligation to our decendants and a right to determine who comes here and who doesn't.
Posted by Banjo, Thursday, 19 February 2009 8:48:20 PM
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Banjo,
The Hoax didn’t bother me but the fact it distressed vulnerable people unnecessarily by hiding behind (attacking) their patriotism either by intent or by lack of thinking it through was my primary concern.
The cowardly part was not the opinion but the fact that it was set up to misrepresent it as an official release of a speech from the PM i.e. heading, picture, coat of arms the lot. This is not only illegal but the perpetrators didn’t have the courage of their convictions to simply put it out under their own names.
Their intentions were clear to falsely appropriate the authority and respect of the PM. This illustrated Samuel Johnson’s point how patriotism can be abused to cloud reason.
My overall objective was to discuss the boundaries of patriotism its uses and its abuses and jingoism.

BTW expressing a different opinion to others isn’t trolling.
Posted by examinator, Friday, 20 February 2009 8:04:34 AM
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Dear examinator,

I found several examples on the web, of how some people
interpret 'patriotism,' that may be of interest to other
posters:

1)This one was posted by someone called "Ginger'
9/6/05 -

" Hi Irs Yusuf ... Welcome to our country and we trust that
you make it yours and defend the way of life that you came
here for, that is if you are not Australian born. If you are
Australian born, then I doubt that you ever intend to become
'one of us.'

Read on please!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about
whether we are offending some individual or
their culture...there are a few things that
those who have recently come to our country,
and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community
has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our
national identity. As Australians, we have our own
culture, our own society, our own language and our
own lifestyle... We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish,
Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any
other language. Therefore, if you wish to become a part
of our society, Learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some
Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this
motto because Chrisitan men and women, on Christian
principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly
documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on
the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest
you consider another part of the world as your new home,
Because God is part of our culture...

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like
A Fair Go, then you should seriously consider a move...

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we
will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But
once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about
Our flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life,
I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great
Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.'
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 20 February 2009 10:17:04 AM
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