The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > On being fat

On being fat

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All
I hate euphemisms like "obese" and "overweight." I had become fat. I tipped the scales at 103 kg. Even for someone of my height that was a lot of blubber.

In September I decided to do something about it. I joined weight watchers and a gym. Four months and 18 kg later I'm getting there. My target weight is 80 kg. At 85 kg I'm not ready to declare victory yet.

How did I lose weight so fast? I had thought this was going to be a long slow process. Instead the kilos melted away. I don’t even have any hunger pangs.

Turns out I am lucky.

You cannot lose fat cells. Once you get them you have them for life. The best you can do is reduce their size.

Unfortunately it turns out fat cells have an optimum size. When they become too small they start yelling "feed me, feed me." We experience that as hunger. That's why it's so hard for some people to lose weight.

That's the bad news.

Here's the good news. Good for some anyway. Until recently it had been thought that you could grow new fat cells throughout your life. New research at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden shows that the NUMBER OF FAT CELLS IS FIXED IN CHILDHOOD. If you were skinny when you emerged from childhood then you have a limited number of fat cells. If you become fat as an adult it is because your existing stock of fat cells has become bloated.

And here's where I was lucky. Until my mid-thirties I was thin as a rake. I have a limited stock of fat cells. All I had to do was return my fat cells to their normal size. That's much easier than trying to reduce an excess of fat cells to below normal size.

You can read about the research here:

http://www.aip.org/isns/reports/2008/020.html

Is there a point to this? I suggest there is.

COMBATING CHILDHOOD OBESITY SHOULD BE OUR NUMBER ONE HEALTH PRIORITY.

Once the kids are fat they will have a lifetime of problems.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Saturday, 17 January 2009 10:16:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Steven,
Here’s another angle on fat: It's no longer just a individual health issue.It's increasingly being presented as a global warming issue.

A recent article in NewScientist argued that fat people contribute more to global warming because:
i) they consume more fats & sugars, which generate more CO2 during production
ii) their additional weight means they burn more fuel in being transported from A to B.
iii) they feel the extremes of temperature more, so they use more power to heat & cool their environment.

And of course, there are more fat people in the West.
So it’s one more piece of evidence in the pogrom against the West

Don’t shoot me I’m just the messenger!

Hope your keep exercise routine going.

Cheers (with mineral water!)
Posted by Horus, Sunday, 18 January 2009 7:07:31 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Many a fatman has lived to an age.
Some examples are Jackie Gleason, Orson Wells and Sydney Greenstreet all were around until their 70's or so, though all had health problems.
It always helps to lose weight.

I think the big killer is stress.
A combination of over-weight, lack of excercise and stress.

Dont lose a vision if you have good one.
A vision is very important. Actually a vision is vital to life.

When Ansett airlines went down a few years ago some pilots were suiciding because all of their eggs were in one basket.
They knew nothing else but the skies.

My back-up is landscape painting.
Posted by Gibo, Sunday, 18 January 2009 8:45:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Horus,

Food is a greater contributor to global warming than driving. A vegetarian who drives an SUV probably contributes more to global warming than a meat eater who uses public transport.

This diagram from New Scientist sums it all up.

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/archive/2673/26731701.jpg

However, though I've taken to eating less meat, I am not a vegetarian.

NB: There are difficulties with a vegetarian diet. It takes a lot more juggling to make sure you get all the essential amino acids and omega-3 fatty acids. Anyone who wants to go vegetarian should consult an expert nutritionist.

There is another aspect to this. On average fat people have lower incomes and require more resources from Medicare than people of normal bulk. So we'd all save a few bucks if fewer people were fat.

On the other hand fat people tend to die younger and don't stick around to collect their old age pensions for as long as people of more normal girth. That saves a bit of money.

NB: mineral water is one of the worst contributors to global warming. So I'd prefer you to toast me with a good red wine.

I decided to lose weight for entirely SELFISH REASONS. I started getting pains in my lower back. It got so bad I could not ride my bicycle for a while. My doctor told me that, while thin people can also have back problems, my chances of avoiding a recurrence were better if I lost a few kilos.

I was not thinking in terms of reducing my carbon footprint or saving the taxpayer a few bucks.

All that being said I do think we would be doing kids, and ourselves, a favour by doing our best to stop them putting on those extra fat cells. COMBATING CHILDHOOD OBESITY REALLY WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO SPEND ADDITIONAL HEALTHCARE DOLLARS.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Sunday, 18 January 2009 9:13:09 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Horus, 'and of course there are more fat people in the west'.

Per cap. the middle east is far and away the fat centre of or planet, and here in oz stats indicate that obesity is linked with lower socio-economic status.

Steven its energy in/energy out with particular emphasis on the source of energy ie adequate protein naturally limits our intake of carbs.
Posted by palimpsest, Sunday, 18 January 2009 10:59:24 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Steven,

Thanks for this thread.

I showed it to my husband.

He currently tips the scales at 104k's, he's over
six feet in height, but he's got problems with his
back, high blood pressure, et cetera. In other words
he's not feeling well.

If you could do it, I thought perhaps he should give
it a go. His added problem is that he likes to drink,
which I don't think helps the situation.

I'm even thinking of signing him up for that "Light
and Easy," food delivery to your home service, that's
advertised on TV. Because I am concerned that his
health seems to have taken a nose-dive.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 January 2009 11:05:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Steven

"I was not thinking in terms of reducing my carbon footprint or saving the taxpayer a few bucks."

With respect, Steven, why not?

We have to start thinking in these terms, as like it or not, obese people are costing us all. This is not directed at you personally by the way as you are taking control of your weight and I wish you well with it. But it is directed at anyone inclined to excuse obesity or to frame it in terms of it being purely an individual problem. It is much more than that.

"A vegetarian who drives an SUV probably contributes more to global warming than a meat eater who uses public transport."

I know it's not a direct comparison, but the sentiment of that statement seems to be in conflict with the following statement posted by Dickie on the Sea Kittens thread.

"It takes thousands of litres of water to produce half a kilogram of factory farmed beef. This means a single person can save more water simply by not eating 500 grams of beef than they could by not showering for an entire year."

I'm a meat-eater too, but I don't think there's any real argument about the huge drain on resources it entails. Unfortunately, with somewhat higher than average protein requirements, I'm still fairly dependent on it at this stage.
Posted by Bronwyn, Sunday, 18 January 2009 12:17:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Foxy

"I'm even thinking of signing him up for that "Light and Easy," food delivery to your home service, that's advertised on TV."

I've always ascribed to low fat eating, but have recently been told that my cholesterol is actually too low and is contributing to some of my health issues. I've now switched to butter and full fat products and have lost rather than gained weight, which wasn't my intention even though I'm not unhappy about it. I have at the same time reduced my carbohydrate intake so it's a bit hard to separate what's causing what at this stage.

It's also a bit early to judge whether this brave departure from accepted dietary orthodoxy is the right choice or not. I guess only time and blood tests etc will tell, but so far I certainly don't feel any the worse for it and on balance probably feel a whole lot better.

Sorry, Foxy, I know this could unhelpfully muddy the waters for you, just when you're close to being decisive and all!

But I'd be interested in testing the OLO waters on this one. I mentioned it once before on another thread but nobody took it up then.

palimpsest

"Per cap. the middle east is far and away the fat centre of or planet ... "

Some evidence would be good. I find this assertion hard to believe. I've only been to Dubai and briefly but I don't remember noticing too many fat people.

I heard on RN just recently that it is now estimated that a third of Americans are not just overweight but obese, which is a staggering statistic, if correct.

That I think is more likely to be the 'fat centre of the planet'. And Australia by all accounts is right up there too.
Posted by Bronwyn, Sunday, 18 January 2009 12:22:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Bronwyn,

Can you give me some precise examples
of what you eat, and how you cook?
It would help me a great deal.

I've been taught all the european ways
of cooking and eating (predomiantly Russian), which
tends to be very high in carbs and cholestrol.
It hasn't affected my metabolism (plain luck, I
guess, although I exercise a great deal), but it's
had a big effect on my husband. My cooking could
well be killing him. So any help from you would
be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 January 2009 2:37:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
PALIMPSEST wrote:

"…here in oz stats indicate that obesity is linked with lower socio-economic status."

That does not appear to be true for child obesity according to a recent report in the Medical Journal of Australia:

"The prevalence of overweight and obesity in 8–10-year-old schoolchildren was 18.5% and 6.5%, respectively. There was no significant sex difference in prevalence and NO SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE OF AN ASSOCIATION BETWEEN SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS AND OVERWEIGHT OR OBESITY" (Academic writers do torture syntax. They're worse than Bush)

See: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/187_03_060807/letters_060807_fm-2.html

The rate of childhood obesity seems to have levelled off but at a high rate. If the MJA report is correct one quarter of Australian children have too many of those fat cells and are condemned to a life-long battle with obesity.

Here is what one council in Britain is doing:

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/Success-health-fitness-scheme-means-place/article-546731-detail/article.html

SHOULD THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN AUSTRALIA SPONSOR PILOT SCHEMES OF THE SORT DESCRIBED IN THE LINK.

You are quite right though about the Middle-East. It's not only bombs that are exploding there. So are Arab waistlines.

FOXY,

Some points to consider.

Very often social milieu is a factor in obesity and drinking. If your husband's friends are hard drinking and fat he is going to find it very hard to change.

Another factor is comfort eating and drinking brought on by stress.

In the end, Foxy, I am afraid you cannot make these decisions for him.

BRONWYN,

Meat, especially beef, has a terrible "water footprint." According to Chapagain and Hoekstra (2004) in Australia it takes 17,000 litres of water to produce 1 kg of beef. To put this in context:

--The average Melburnian consumes 100,000 litres of water pa directly.

--The vegetarian substitutes for beef needs +-2,500 litres of water per kg.

So if a Melburnian substitutes vegetarian equivalents for 7 kg of beef annually he saves his entire direct water consumption and should be permitted to take more than a 4-minute shower!

You can access the Chapagain and Hoekstra report here:

http://www.ihe.nl/Project-activities/Project-database/Virtual-Water-Trade-Research-Programme/Chapagain-A.K.-Hoekstra-A.Y.-2004-.-Water-footprints-of-nations-Volume-1-Main-Report-Value-of-Water-Research-Series-No.-16-UNESCO-IHE
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Sunday, 18 January 2009 2:40:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
FOXY

I know you addressed your last post to Bronwyn but I hope you won’t mind if I reply.

The Mayo Clinic seems to be recommending a "Mediterranean" style diet for healthy living. You can read about it here.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/mediterranean-diet/CL00011

There are numerous cookbooks that give excellent Mediterranean style recipes. I've seen many on sale at Dymocks.

However you need to be aware of a few things:

--Older people should not try to lose weight through diet alone. It causes loss of muscle mass as well as fat which leads to problems later on. Some exercise is essential for any weight loss plan.

--The worst thing you can do is "weight cycle" – ie lose – gain – lose –gain. It is better to stay fat.

--Always consult your GP before embarking on a weight loss plan. Apart from anything else, it commits you psychologically.

I find the Mayo Clinic website to be an excellent and authoritative SCIENCE BASED resource when it comes to health issues. Here's what they have to say about obesity:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/obesity/DS00314

The NY Times is also an excellent source of healthy recipes. See:

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/health/nutrition/index.html
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Sunday, 18 January 2009 2:55:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Steven,

Thanks for all your advice, and the
valuable links.

Much appreciated.

You're right. There are some decisions that
I can't make for my husband (heaven knows
I've tried, especially with his drinking
and 'comfort eating,' and you're right about
his friends, and stress levels). But at least I can
try to produce food lower in fat and carbs.
And get him to talk to his GP. Excellent idea.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 January 2009 7:57:41 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Foxy

You, the creator of the most amazing Russian dinner menu, asking me for advice on cooking? :)

Well I'm no cook, but perhaps I can pass on a few ideas which may be of use to you too.

The Mayo link of Steven's looks good. Cold pressed olive oil is great for cooking and for salads etc, as are both macadamia and coconut oil as well. Personally, I'm wary with canola oil unless organic, due to GM. I mostly cook with butter now, but I'm not totally sure that I'm doing the right thing yet, so wouldn't necessarily advise others to do the same at this stage.

I try and buy unprocessed and organic where I can. I do a lot of label reading and generally avoid things with too many numbers and unnatural sounding ingredients. I've found the book "Changing Habits, Changing lives" by Cyndi O'Meara a great guide to wholesome eating with lots of good recipes and food preparation ideas. http://www.changinghabits.com.au/ Rachel Bermingham and Kim McCosker's "4 Ingredients" and "4 Ingredients 2" are good books as well. http://www.4ingredients.com.au/ I mostly cook dishes based on meat, eggs or legumes for protein along with plenty of vegetables and/or salad. I've generally cut back on pasta, rice and potatoes and seldom cook anything with pastry these days.

As far as helping hubbies' waistlines, I think keeping a lean pantry is the key. I've stopped buying biscuits, cakes, jam, ice-cream etc, and instead have things like yoghurt and fresh fruit there for him for sweets and nuts and dried fruit in jars for easy snacking. I phased in the changeover very gradually, feigning forgetfulness occasionally in the early stages when he'd ask why I hadn't bought such and such!

He still likes a beer and is partial to bread, but I'm not going there. Can't deprive him of all life's pleasures!

You'll probably find you're able to adapt some of your old Russian recipes too, Foxy, rather than having to make a complete clean sweep.

Good luck and let us know how you get on at some stage.
Posted by Bronwyn, Monday, 19 January 2009 1:21:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bronwyn, source for my statement that the ME is the fat capital is "The Economist 2009 Yearbook" which lists half the worlds top 12 nations for obesity as Middle east nations.(as well as the US, two Pacific island nations and Oz at about 24th).

Steven my statement re Oz is obviously wrong, obesity is across all soc-eco levels, but their is a 50% increase in levels of obesity in adults between the highest and lowest rankings of what the ABS calls the "Index of Disadvantage".

There are two well proven dietary paths to weight loss now. Steven took one, and the other is Atkins. The x factor is not the number and voracity of your fat cells, but self discipline. A regular and adequate intake of protein naturally lessens the bodies need for quick fix high GI hits of energy.
Posted by palimpsest, Monday, 19 January 2009 10:39:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
palimpsest

"Bronwyn, source for my statement that the ME is the fat capital is "The Economist 2009 Yearbook" which lists half the worlds top 12 nations for obesity as Middle east nations.(as well as the US, two Pacific island nations and Oz at about 24th)."

Thanks for that. I won't dispute it, but I was sure I'd heard more than once that the US and Australia have some of the worst if not the very worst statistics regarding obesity levels.

I did observe in Dubai that they have to import all fresh produce. Not sure if that's the case throughout the Middle East, but if so, it could go part way towards explaining the expanding waistlines in that part of the world.

"A regular and adequate intake of protein naturally lessens the bodies need for quick fix high GI hits of energy."

Spot on. I actually think this is one of the main keys to both weight loss and good health more generally. A good quality high protein breakfast especially will stay with you for the day. Not only will it help you feel alert and on top of things, but as you say, it lessens the cravings for junk. Not snacking after your evening meal is also another good tip to aid weight loss and improve digestion and general health.
Posted by Bronwyn, Monday, 19 January 2009 11:54:10 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I don't mind being overweight, or fat, but I will not be obese. What a horrible word that is.

I think there is far too much rubbish written about fat, & most of it is a pile of you know what. Most of it is written so as not to blame people for being FAT, FAT FAT.

Well I'm FAT. For 60 years I could live on stake, chocolate biscuits, or anything I could get in a Pacific Island island market, & never add a pound, [no Kgs then]. I was far too active, just as everyone should be.

When I was a kid I saw adults, who really worked for a living, polish off 5 sausages, 3 chops, a mountain of bubble & squeak, plus 2 or 3 helpings of stewed friut, every day, just for breakfast. They were all skinny.

Now with crook knees, & a couple of shot discs, I spend too much time in front of this thing. I even use a ute to go half a Km down to the river to start a pump, & I'm now FAT. Hell, I even spent the last 10 years of my working life in a office, so what else would you expect?

Oh, & like those other blokes, who worked a bit too hard, I get a bit of pain, from time to time, but I wouldn't have missed a minute of it, & I was skiny for longer than I'm going to be fat.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 19 January 2009 1:29:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Fat is a euphemism for obese rather than the reverse.
Posted by david f, Monday, 19 January 2009 3:54:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Bronwyn, Steven, and Everyone,

Thank You all so much for your advice.

I'll let you know how my husband does in
losing weight in a few months time.

I've taken all of your advice to heart,
and will try to introduce him to healthier
eating habits, along with simple exercises.
(Joining me in walks, for a start).

I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 January 2009 6:19:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Steven,
Great subject, good info. Going back to your post of NS's co2 footprint of food production. It raises some scary/depressing topics:
• Particularly given at these levels we aren’t feeding everyone on the planet adequately.
• World food production is currently sufficient to sufficient nourishment for every one. The problems are distribution and not ‘profitable’ enough to do so.
• Consider the amounts of food left to rot or deliberately destroyed to keep the price high enough to make it profitable.
• Then there’s the case of who pays for those who can’t.
• The CO2/methane from the destruction of the unprofitable food.
• How much more CO2 will be necessary to actually feed everyone.
• It adds impetus to Ludwig’s call for population control.
Back to the issue at hand being fat. There are many factors to WHY people are overweight and obese and therefore generally speaking it isn’t simply a matter of going on a diet and more exercise, it’s a complete cultural change that is needed.
The above figures and the consequential points have NOW have made me view MY lifestyle differently…not just to lose weight but to change my view of food consumption. No I don’t mean two celery sticks for lunch or a life without enjoying food. I mean all the excessive extras in the fridge. The food that spoils because we buy/cook more than we need….eliminate the leftovers at the source.
Bon appetite?
Cheers
examinator (small 'e' for the smaller footprinted me):-)
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 8:51:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I found the VERY first post here about fat cells the most interesting thing of all. It makes sense.

I hadn't quite read all the posts when I felt this 'bursting need' to put in a post. Argghhh. Whenever I read the word diet or in Foxy's case about considering delivery of 'special food' to the door for hubby's weight loss, well, I cringe.

It IS LIFE STYLE. No diets work unless it is a lifestyle change. When I here someone doing a specific diet, I immediately say, 'Are you on this for life'??

You see no one can eat a 'no carb' diet FOR LIFE.
No one can have the CRSRO or whatever the acronym is, for life.
No one does weight watchers, jenny craigs or those masses of other
diets all there lives.

It isn't food only; it is about MOVING the body. Start walking.
It is easy input has to be LESS THAN output.

When people diet, the body thinks 'uh ole', you're trying to starve me so I'll slow down my metabolism.
It is better...I mean FAR BETTER to eat a little and eat often. This keeps the body thinking it is fed and not over fed, the blood sugars remain more constant and you don't go into starvation mode.

Get it moving more - the body (have to move more with age).
Eat smaller portions and eat SLOWLY. The brain takes 20 mins to register you are full. Eat 3/4 of your plate that comes directly from the ground. Drink LOTS of water. If feeling hungry, drink water FIRST. The body is often thirsty; dehydration makes you feel hungry too.
Don't eat foods man has tampered with and you can't go wrong.

A little and often and NEVER skip breakfast. Eating breaks the overnight fast.

There is no such thing as a diet. Overweight people make excuses
when all they need to do is change the size of their plate and begin
to move the body more, slowly but surely.
It will work.
Posted by Cakers, Friday, 6 February 2009 8:58:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy