Belly “you do not however have a clew.”

And

“You speak of unions actions decades old, “

Not having a clue
Now the last time I saw wharfies drag their children onto the picket line was 1998,
Just a decade ago.

Not the “Decades “ ago which you talk about.

“refuse to see things have changed.”

Oh I guess understanding the pretense is one thing, realizing that underneath the veneer of change the old arrogance and desire to dictate is still there is another, just like the ETU in Victoria.

especially when you admit “case history's of workers being forced to join unions, “
And I bet they are not all “decades ago”

Then you comment “I see a future for moderates, those who talk first and second fight”

But the future dreams are not fact, only the past is that and I can cite any number of union abuses of workers and employers initiated to suit the immoral demands of unions.

So as far as “union performance” is concerned,
when what you see in the future can been seen as actually having occurred,

I would rather go with the clues I have than with the fantasies you spin here.

“I find reason to be proud I am me and not you”

Actually I am proud of what I do and have done,
As to you, I am indifferent. In my life, you just don’t matter at all.

“union forever proud and strong honest but never weak.”

Maybe one day, when leopard changes from spots to stripes.

In short, pretending you are the acceptable and moral face of an organization steeped in graft and corruption is as believable as John Gotti pretending to being made of Teflon.

Spikey so, you know everything. To denigrate the past is the arrogance of the ignorant.

Keep up with being a clueless dolt, it really does suit you.

Drucker and Taylor, you might have read enough to Google them but that does not mean you understand anything about what they wrote.

Same old pig-ignorance as has been mentioned before

Col Rouge,

"Same old pig-ignorance as has been mentioned before." Col, self-deprecation does you no good.

I can always tell when you are being bested in an argument (which is often). You get heavily into personal abuse and childish name-calling. An unhappy childhood, perhaps?

Yep got it right Spikey Col is out of touch, but also sprouting the conservative line, the John Howard radical lines.
ETU Victorian branch, not going to waste my time here comrades make me laugh, but also truly cry.
My movement suffers great harm by actions of such idiots.
Water side workers strike, two sides to that story, both had much wrong on their side.
Kids do not need dragging to follow dad Col.
Gutless behind the scenes crimes saw some crimes committed by members of government ,who can tell me some in private enterprise did not benefit from government spending and actions there?
MODERN unionism, could have increased productivity and in turn wages , should have been given the chance , will in the future thats what true bargaining is about.
Col who started the thread?
Who highlighted the stupidity of that claim?
Who laughs at the comrades and highlights the damage they do to the movement?
How much evidence do you need that there is a difference?
Col is it too much to ask that you consider some bosses many more than you wish to know, invite unions on site and its two way fault fixing?
Again you refresh me, your sad view of the world is blind to faults on one side and I am constantly reminded why your side lost the last and next two elections

Belly “but also sprouting the conservative line, the John Howard radical lines.”

I see, simultaneously conservative and radical.

And I am the one who is supposedly without a clue and out of touch?

“not going to waste my time here comrades make me laugh, but also truly cry.
My movement suffers great harm by actions of such idiots.”

But the Victorian ETU is a publicly perceived part of the union movement… you are simply in “denial”.

“Water side workers strike, two sides to that story, both had much wrong on their side.
Kids do not need dragging to follow dad”

Some were too young to walk, no choice, but to come with dad or mum.

Contemptible action by grossly irresponsible and abusive parents.

“MODERN unionism, could have increased productivity and in turn wages”

Most productivity gains have come from owners reorganization, or capital investment and some economies of scale and a lot from the free trade agreement process which means we do not focus on trying to make everything but those things we produce efficiently.

“Col is it too much to ask that you consider some bosses many more than you wish to know, invite unions on site and its two way fault fixing?”

You are doing the tit-for-tat thing Belly, typical union posturing, “I put this on table” now you put something on table too”

Try Growing up.

“Again you refresh me, your sad view of the world is blind to faults on one side and I am constantly reminded why your side lost the last and next two elections”

The labor party is only able to survive the present financial crisis because of their inheritance, from the Howard government.

If they had inherited the Keating budget shortfall, they would be running around now with their backsides showing through their frayed trousers, just like their policy mistakes are starting to show through their frayed thinking.

Spikey “You get heavily into personal abuse and childish name-calling. An unhappy childhood, perhaps?”

Hypocritical Provocateur

You lost several posts ago.

I am simply responding in kind to you attempts at sarcasm.

Col you have my sympathy but not my respect, you live in a world that does not in truth exist.
You revel in union bashing yet use yesterdays evidence to do it.
Union movement? even you must understand some unions have few Friends even in the movement.
I would no more defend the Victorian ETU than many other rat bag elements in the union movement, those within my movement who disagree need to remember very few of our members are radical.
even less communists.
Col you invite slagging matches in threads then complain about it.
Still you do again and again remind me some bosses are like you, evidence we will always need unions.

Belly,

"Col you invite slagging matches in threads then complain about it." Spot on.