But this good news comes in fact from the West Bank... still.. it has a very strong HAMAS connection.

WHO IS Sheikh Hassan Yousef?

He is described in the interview as a founding member of HAMAS, one of the pre-eminent Hamas political leaders.. currently in an Israeli Jail on suspected terrorism charges.

WHO IS Mousab Hassan?

He is the son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef. He was also the leader of the Hamas Islamic Youth movement in the West Bank.

WHAT happened to Mousab?
He was imprisoned in Meggido Jail by the Israelis. His uncle was also there. He witnessed the horrific actions of Hamas against it's own people..torture and killing. He began to question Islam.
He was eventually released and 'chance' encountered a Christian visiting Jerusalem, who not knowing who Mousab was, simply invited him for bible study, which Mousab accepted.

Long story short. Mousab was struck by the words of Jesus "Love your enemies" and this opened his heart to more....he found quiet moments in the hills to compare the Quran and the Bible, back and forth, back and forth.. he concluded that the Quran was full of problems, and that the Bible was the truth, he embraced Christ as His Savior and now proclaims Christ as Lord.

AL QAEDA has pronounced a death sentence on him, quoting the classic 'if a man changes his religion, kill him'

Mousab now believes he should communicate his new faith to the Islamic world, and wants them to find faith in Christ.

CONCLUSION. As I said in a recent post. The problem in the middle east can be solved when people embrace Christ.

Mousab was interviewed on Fox news.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmmujStCGxM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZLI5-5LaU&feature=related (for arabic speakers)

you will be aware we get born again after death poly, not just the xtians [right]

thing is our belief's divide us
even in the heavens
[there is an xtian version for each xtian sect and every islamic sect and buddists etc

[they all have a room in the fathers house ]

now the thing is all of the arabs dudes family will be in one room[and him alone with the xtians]

there are reasons kids should be the same belief as their parents[it helps keep the family together oin the next life]in the next life it isnt about which 'religion' was right[but the good works we did [or the vile we loved to do

[more shall be given

god dont care about religion[it dont impress me much either]my friends are scattered into many rooms[jesus is the head proffit[but he isnt god,half the xtian sects think he is

[the other know he isnt;[god] ,thing is EVEN JESUS house is divided [recall how upset he was about the faTHERS divided house of the judean sects]LOL WE DIVIDED UP A LOT MORE SCINCE THEN[;LOL]

but even christs room is divided, what a great way to treat the worlds greatest teacher[ps its time to teach people about the truths jesus taught

[but to encourage converts to keep family harmony] to l;ive by jesus egsample back into your home community .,and who knows one day god might be able to address ALL HIS CREATION in one room

[yeah i know but i can dream cant i?]but as long as we sepperate the sheep into their breeds , let alone the goats,[our fathers house must remain divided]

Dear OUG.... thankyou for your welcome contribution.

I don't agree with it, but hey...this is the beauty of democracy :)

It's also the nature of Christ not to tell you that "unless you believe our way we will kill you". Each person has a choice in response to the Good news of salvation in Him.

As the Jewish man at the Pro Israel Rally said to me ...with his arm around my shoulder "We don't believe Jesus is the Son of God, but ..and so on" there was no animosity.. but mutual respect. I didn't try to convert him, but he did try to convert me :)

The point I'm trying to make about Moussab is that there IS a 'Christ' centred solution for the middle east. The cost to him?
His last words to his father were "You are closer to Christ than Mohammad" (paraphrase) and his father wept... and that's the last he saw of them, knowing that his life was not at stake as an apostate Muslim, he left the ME for America.

It should be clear from his story, that no matter how much hatred and evil your life and family are filled with and surrounded by.. just like Paul en route to Damascus... there is 'more to come' :)

kind words poly;an xtian middle path way might help...but its a mess in the holyland's

An Experiment in Provocation:Stealing Gaza

BRIAN ENO/Counterpunch

It’s a tragedy that the Israelis..a people who must understand better than almost anybody the horrors of oppression..are now acting as oppressors.

As the great Jewish writer Primo Levi once remarked“Everybody has their Jews..and for the Israelis it’s the Palestinians”.

By creating a middle Eastern version of the Warsaw-ghetto they are recapitulating their own history as though they’ve forgotten it..And by trying to paint an equivalence between the Palestinians,with their homemade rockets and stone-throwing teenagers[seems the equivelent of natzi anyi-jew propaganda]..they sacrifice all credibility.

The Israelis are a gifted and resourceful people who fully deserve the right to live in peace,but who seem intent on squandering every chance to allow that to happen.

It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that this conflict serves the political and economic purposes of Israel/right so well that they have every interest in maintaining it...While there is fighting they can continue to build illegal settlements.

While there is fighting they continue to receive huge quantities of military aid from the United States...And while there is fighting they can avoid looking candidly at themselves and the ruthlessness into which they are descending.

Gaza is now an experiment in provocation...Stuff one and a half million people into a tiny space..stifle their access to water, electricity,food and medical treatment..destroy their livelihoods, and humiliate them regularly…and,surprise,surprise,they turn hostile.

Now why would you want to make that experiment?

Because the hostility you provoke is the whole point...‘under attack’ you can cast yourself as the victim,and call out the helicopter gunships and the F16 attack fighters and the heavy tanks and the guided missiles,and destroy yet more of the pathetic remains of infrastructure that the Palestinian state still has left.

And then you can point to it as a hopeless case,unfit to govern itself,a terrorist state,a state with which you couldn’t possibly reach an accommodation.

And then you can carry on with business as usual, quietly stealing their homeland.

Polycarp,

This is a great testimony Polycarp. Unfortunately he would be locked up in Victoria if he told his story.

dear OUG...the people 'stuffing' all those people into Gaza are the dills like Sheikh Rayan..who had 4 wives and 12 children. And Haniyah, who I believe has TEN children.

Once you understand that these people see children as 'weapons'...and given that Nizar Rayan sent one of his own sons to blow himself up... you begin to see the mentality of Hamas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roC2dHJiVyo further interview with Mousab Hassan (subtitles as it's in arabic)

You say Israel is doing an 'exercise in provocation'....? Ok.. let's 'test' that in the light of the full picture?

30-80 Rockets DAILY descending on Sderot, Ashkelon, Beer Sheba etc....

DAILY... mate.. *wake up* :) again I ask the simple question "What" does Hamas hope to achieve by poking a hungry tiger with little pins?
A normal tiger will not tolerate being pricked and poked..imagine how it would react if you poked/whacked it's CUBS? Sderot and Beer Sheba are the cubs of the Israeli Tiger.

If we all think about it.. we know that Hamas is really trying to provoke enough international outrage, but particularly among the Arab world.. to precipitate some kind of 'pan arab' reaction of force/war.

No other reasoning can stand up against such a stupendously ridiculous action of hurting a much more powerful neighbour.

Am I missing something?

Spiritually speaking, Mousab found light in "love your enemy".. and this does indeed 'work' to a degree... so he is no longer part of Hamas bent on destroying Israel. But practically speaking.. the "Emperor" of Israel (Prime Minister) has a Biblical mandate (Romans 13:1-5) to carry out a just war against aggressors. (Hamas)

If the Israelies all discovered 'love your enemies'...you might like to see how this can unfold based on the Old Testament example that it comes from.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=6&version=31

2 kings 6:8ff describes Israel's kindness to the invading Arameans.
Then....there was peace....

UNTIL

24 Some time later, Ben-Hadad king of ARAM mobilized his entire army and marched up and laid siege to Samaria.

Hamas still has as it's core objective the destruction of Israel.

as i explained at

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8347&page=0

my posts reveal that hamas was created by the mossad;

that israel has presented no proof that hamas is doing the pipebombing[hamas is really only the equivelent of a political party name[like liberal or labour or the greens]

parties dont do things people do

later posts reveal fatah also was set up by israel [lol?]

but you cant punish captives crammed into a prison camp and say they are hiding behind children...[when settlers drag their children..[of a freechoice]into a war zone

[and palisteins are like fish in a barrel,..not allowed to leave]

the death rate also stands out
[the pipe bombs have killed 17 israelies in 6 years[and israel has killed nearing 400 in 4 days]

the timming at election time is also suspitious[plus admissions this attack has been in the planning for 6 mths]

also israel stating peace is not an option,...seems a blatent previeuw of what is planned

the timming is interesting as well,deliberatly planned to be exicuted while most press is asleep[and while still under gw busche's watch, noting obama's change we can believe in,will be unchanged from the busche/cheeney neo con zionist lobby stance

but i said it on
http://www.civilrights.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=364.msg1060;topicseen#msg1060

http://www.peacetakescourage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9505

and at obama's change forum allready[he cant claim not to know]..it even mentions rothchilds role in the farce of a'homeland'[the 4th reiche]

for the same zionist capoes that chose;,who went to the chambers[the same type explused true judeans from the holy lands when the zionist'bolchovics/teutonics took it from palistein[the new/neo 4 th reicke]

[a feud that goes back 2500 years has been subverted, my posts reveal jews are created from nthe judean myths..[i also note that the natzies better prepare for a surge[sneak attack at anytime;when they get their hundred fold vengence upon the'natzies'for ww2,next time].. but [lol]its the self same natzies,settling like the teutonic/germaic/zionista have allways done under talmud law in many lands

[the hundred fold vengence is egsactly what the futile death toll reveals,every israelie is'worth'100 goys[non jew]the clay'man'who takes orders from the rothchild/zionist teutonics holyblood line.

It's a shame massab didn't get his hands on a copy of the God Delusion instead.

Look around the world, and you'll see that the more secular the country, the more stable it is.
It appears so many religious people bury their heads in the sand on this one, but it's true - it's there for anyone to see.

We can only hope secularism continues to spread.

Oops, that should be 'hassan'.

TurnRightThenLeft,

You write

'Look around the world, and you'll see that the more secular the country, the more stable it is. '

You are obviously ignorant of the founding fathers of the US and Australia. You also ignore the fact that the more secular we become the more violent we are as demonstrated by the murder of millions of unborn children. Your eyes are blinded by your dogmas.

Dear TRTL.... given that Moussab was schooled from childhood in the most radical form of religious faith, by a dad he regarded as a hero, the 'God Delusion' would probably not have helped him much.

I can imagine his mental state after the crisis of faith in Hamas and thus Islam... but bear one thing in mind please.. once his mind was opened to the Gospel...he made a long and systematic comparison between the Quran and the Bible. His conversion was not really Damascus Road like, more a slow train to Mumbai... I don't know the real saying.

At least his experience should underline to you blokes and gals...that when I say the same things..I'm not talking through my rear end.. it is in fact substantive and true.

I was discussing the "Free Gaza"/ "Save Israel" rallies today with a very independant feminist woman at gym. Her view was pretty adamant.. "All religions are good urging love.. and when fanatics claim their religion justifies killing others for the sake of their religion.. they are taking it out of context"

I didn't persue the discussion deeper.. but it remains true that her opinion was based more on sentimentalism than hard fact. It shows also, just how bigoted some secular people can be.. albeit ignorantly so. (not realizing) "I don't believe in discriminating against any religion... " cripes.. sounds good and noble but neglects some very real problems with Islam as a belief system.

How often have you heard me say "Islam"(i.e..the faith) teaches that unbelief after belief is a capital offense"? heaps.. but most of you poo poo that as 'biased/Christian Islamophobia (CJ) and misconstruing of obscure texts" :) (Pericles)...but it's real as the Al Qaeda document shows.

All Mousab needs is a regular diet of Grace, the Word, divine love and warm fellowship :)

runner, you've shown yourself to be immune to basic things like crime and abortion statistics, if they run contrary to your preconceived god-notions, but here's some reliable evidence for you.

http://www.slate.com/id/2203614/

"In his new book, Society Without God, Phil Zuckerman looks at the Danes and the Swedes—probably the most godless people on Earth. They don't go to church or pray in the privacy of their own homes; they don't believe in God or heaven or hell. But, by any reasonable standard, they're nice to one another. They have a famously expansive welfare and health care service. They have a strong commitment to social equality. And—even without belief in a God looming over them—they murder and rape one another significantly less frequently than Americans do."

But runner, here's the real kicker - they have far fewer abortions too!

"Denmark and Sweden aren't exceptions. A 2005 study by Gregory Paul looking at 18 democracies found that the more atheist societies tended to have relatively low murder and suicide rates and relatively low incidence of abortion and teen pregnancy."

For more evidence, you can look here:

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

But, I suspect, you'd rather just parrot another line about 'evil' secularists.

Well, frankly, this childish repetition is becoming pretty blatant to most posters on these threads.
I really don't know what it is you hope to achieve.