Well said Veronkia,

It's not a deformity!

It has a sense of over-indulgence when it's just not needed, and much as a new flavor of cream or some other frivolous luxury it may even be unhealthy indulgence.

ex: social moral religious pressures to take or not take the non gay tablet or regret or confusion etc later in life that you did or didn't.

Sancho,

“ mjpb, my experience isn't universal, but each and every tale I've encountered of sexuality-related misery has been specifically due to feelings of isolation and rejection from society. Can you cite a case of a homosexual being made miserable by their sexuality for reasons other than rejection and stigmatisation?”

I’ve read studies of suicides of homosexuals who apparently became miserable when their relationship partner broke up with them but I know that is not what you had in mind. I was alive when some grown adults actually paid money for jeans which had a deliberate hole in the seat. Fitting in means alot to a lot of people. Absolutes are often dangerous assumptions.

“... I don't understand why the comparison with women is confusing. It's an example of a demographic which is happier and demonstrably freer because traditional expectations and enforcement of conformity have been overcome. And, yes, homosexuals lack autonomy and dignity when the majority denies their legitimacy, just as women did when they were actively denied full participation in society.”

That better explains why you mention it in a broader context but I don’t see how it applies here.

“ If a homosexual teenager is driven to depression because he fears rejection by his peers, the civilised response is to advocate acceptance of his natural state, not provide means to change himself artificially so that the rest of us are more comfortable.”

Do homosexuals make you uncomfortable?

Veronika,

“Non-normative? The norm throughout human history has been that a minority of humans are homosexual. Homosexuality, is, therefore, normative.“

Doesn’t that make their being in a minority normative rather than homosexuals themselves?

“As for your political-correctness-gone-crazy analysis of what would happen if this hypothetical treatment became available, I think society is already a lot more diverse than you imagine. I also think that politics would enter the frame before the "gay activists" arrived on the scene — such research is itself is a political act.”

You are entitled to your opinion. I've given mine.

“ Being straight or gay encompasses more than just sexual predilections. I have a young nephew who is definitely eccentric and possibly gay — if anyone were to tamper with what makes him uniquely him they would have to do so over my dead body”

Assuming that the possibility came to fruition what if TurnRightThenLeft’s “treatment” targetted appetite or sexual predilections only?

“Another dodgy analogy: ..”

Why it seems perfect for the use you are making of it?

“I said it was a dodgy analogy and it is. There are lots of holes in it. Do I think we should keep trying to cure cancer, despite the fact that some people say their lives were enriched by it? Of course!“

But it makes the point that some people actually benefit from adversity...That is a good point.

“But homosexuality is not an illness or "non-normative" or much of a problem at all, except in the hearts of those who, for their own reasons, can't deal with it.”

An inspiring comment but I believe that TurnRightThenLeft’s idea that some might choose to get "treated" remains an possibility and the hypothetical an interesting intellectual exercise.

To me, that's what it comes back to.

Veronika, Sancho, Meredith - I agree with all your points, but I haven't heard the justification you would use to deny people the right to choose such treatment, save perhaps for Veronika's analogy about freckles.

So, Veronika, would you deny people treatment to remove freckles? The situation made you stronger and worked for you.

Would that be the same for everyone?

My view is that I agree, homosexuality should be considered a valid lifestyle. I agree there shouldn't be discrimination or societal pressure. I agree homosexuals shouldn't be treated as second class citizens or made to feel abnormal.

However, I also think that this decision should be entirely up to them, if such a 'treatment' did exist. It should be available for them to use, be it used wisely or unwisely.
Perhaps not easily used, but available all the same.

TurnRightThenLeft,

"Would that be the same for everyone?"

Here. Here. A point well made. What if hypothetically some freckled people instead of coping and later feeling good about benefitting from the adversity suicided or something? Could you say that they should have been denied treatment irrespective of what you consider to cause their misery?

"However, I also think that this decision should be entirely up to them, if such a 'treatment' did exist. It should be available for them to use, be it used wisely or unwisely.
Perhaps not easily used, but available all the same."

Unless of course the "treatment" was harmful or heterosexuality was an unhealthy or non-normative subject to discrimination situation. Well we are doing a hypothetical so I figure that should be there for completion.

I think it is a bit like the euthanasia debate... ultimately people should have rights to such personal decisions but socially I think it becomes unstable.

ex: I personally don't want the button switched off no matter how much pain I am in or how vegetable like, It is cuz I am an atheist and it is very sincere all I own is this life, bla bla etc.. I have had grief from people over that, as in been called selfish, what if others need your hospital bed etc...

This is the kind of thing I am talking about, we are not the type of animal that will not pressure others we disagree with, and some areas are never going to be agreed on because they are both legitimately right and wrong.

Also it is kind of like, should we, just cuz we can? The fact we can work out how to do stuff doesn't make it instantly right.