Poly,

Mass might not have existed in the early universe, only energy. When the temperature fell, fundamental particles were formed, these became quarks, forming electrons, neutrons and protons (and the anit-matter equalivents), elements and molecules are made from atoms. Proteins and amino acids are produced. Life.

Life exists in four dimensional space-time. Time is a dimension. Creation assumes cause and effect. Happenstance does not require creation, rather the formulation of time intertwinned with space.

The difference is subtle, to read, yet enormous with regards to its implications.

Time and space appear as the product of a transmutation of entropy.

Herein, a physical law govering entropy exists or it does not exist.

If it did not exist we would not be here. On the other hand, existence, I posit, therefore is a function of probability. We in our common lives see time as a passage. In an alternative differential frame, time is a requirement to accommodate thermodynamics. God is not required.

Also, do you see a the dissimilarity between Genesis and Matthew I have previously mention?

(I need check back at the old thread to check to see if you and our friend runner have addressed the Creation questions.)

BR,

O.

Hi Oly.. aaarrgh.. the Matthew and Genesis question? I must have missed it mate. As to the detailed physics issues you raise there.. I confess insufficient knowledge. I can only say that if the Almighty can create the universe (big Piccy stuff) He can also manage the micro :)

PErrrrICLES.

1/ "The hucksters" DO want your money :) we don't. We are not offering anything like luxury or wealth or anything other than a cross. Not exactly an attraction.

2/ Conspiracy Theory ? Hardly, just an emergence over time of a philosphical view, which is layered..one upon the other, with each layer taking society further from God.

3/ By 'Encounter' I mean exactly what Paul mean't in his trustworthy ancient document :) (see.. making a fuss can come back and bite ya in the polemical bum) 1 Cor 15:1ff Gal 1:11ff What Luke mean't in Acts 9 Who am I to add to it?

All of which leads to the conclusion:

"He is there, and He is not silent"
(Francis Schaeffer, Labri)

I must confess, I did put Descartes before the hoarse.

But Steven did try and exHume the topic.

Does anyone else wonder why God speaks with capslock on? If he were a blogger, noone would have taken him seriously.

More obfuscation, Boaz. You must be hoping that they make it an Olympic sport, you'd be guaranteed a trip to London in 2012.

>>"The hucksters" DO want your money :) we don't. We are not offering anything like luxury or wealth or anything other than a cross. Not exactly an attraction.<<

Luxury apartment? $4m. Ocean going yacht? $1.5m. Eternal Life? Priceless.

>>Conspiracy Theory ? Hardly, just an emergence over time of a philosphical view, which is layered..one upon the other, with each layer taking society further from God.<<

Then why make it sound like a conspiracy... "by those who saw it as being in their philosophical and/or (im)moral interests to have it so."?

>>By 'Encounter' I mean exactly what Paul mean't in his trustworthy ancient document :) (see.. making a fuss can come back and bite ya in the polemical bum)<<

As you are very well aware, even if the document may be described as trustworthy, the same does not apply to the content of that document.

Or had you, most conveniently, forgotten that already?

Paul hallucinated.

He says that his men either saw the light (and, amazingly, weren't blinded) but didn't hear the voice (Acts 22:9), or that they heard the voice, but didn't see the light (Acts 9:7) and that they stood speechless (Acts 9:7) or they fell to the ground (Acts 26:14) or that only he fell to the ground (Acts 22:7)

He wouldn't have lasted ten seconds in the witness box.

And you would be a shoo-in for the Olympic squad.

A slightly more sophisticated version of the tooth fairy?

Pericles: I had answered the entity question: "I am that I am" (caps off!) encapsulates the only possible type of supreme being that could lay claim to God-ness:

A God that exists independent of time and space and independent of the thinking mind. Beyond (but in control of) the four dimensions, with no beginning and no end.

Not an anonymous, impersonal God, but one that can be called by name. Not an alouf or inaccessible deity but one that breathes life into his creation.

Further, a God that cares about his Creation, and has a discernible presence in it.

The creator of all things, who derive their existence from Him, and are dependent on Him.

For the record, we are given the disembodied voice in the wilderness, declaring himself in human history.

If the Torah has given us a false account, then all recorded history is in disrepute.

If Jesus is the God entity, then his description of his unique character, makes perfect sense. Jesus' claims are gob-smackingly original:

bread of life?
morning star?
the giver of life?

etc.

And his God-qualities were verifiable:

- all powerful (over the natural elements, the supernatural, life and death, sickness; the power to bring salvation and restoration)
- omniscient: ability to predict the future
- omnipresent: the alpha and omega
- wisdom : original insight into God's character. Intimate knowledge of God.
- completely without blemish (sin)
- the word made flesh

Who else has ever brought these God-qualities to bear? Has raised the dead to life? Has had power to heal the sick or drive out the evil spirits? Can predict the hour of their own death? Can feed the multitude? Can calm the storm? Walk on water? Has lived, died and yet still lives? Who else could throw the stone at the adulteress? Who said that they would come again to judge the living and the dead ...

Jesus fulfills all my expectations of the God entity, as does his Father in heaven, as does the Holy Spirit who testifies the truth in all these things.