Boaz, I am aware that "to a hammer, everything looks like a nail", but this thread should not be used as yet another pulpit for your evangelist monologues.

Particularly if you insist on such nonsensical and convoluted reasoning as this.

>>Pericles has set himself up as 'god'<<

I made my view clear, that my perception of God is that it is purely the brain's reaction to chemical stimulus. How does that translate to "I am God"?

And this:

>>Pericles bemoans that lack of personal interview which he expects from the Creator<<

Why on earth would I expect chemicals to make themselves available for interview?

>>Of course.. it is not enough (it seems) for them to have accounts of miracles done by the Lord Jesus<<

You are perfectly well aware of my views on this topic, Boaz. They were most probably stories that "grew" as they were repeated, to be eventually written down by people with a vested interest in wanting them to be true.

>>Nor is it enough for those like myself who have felt that divine touch of healing.. to testify to it's reality, nope.. it's that "YOU.. HERE.. NOW!" from them to the Creator of the Universe.<<

With the greatest respect, and without casting the slightest doubt on the "divine touch of healing" that you claim to have personally experienced, I do not believe that it signifies what you think it does.

It's that chemical, you see Boaz.

It renders you as unable to see my position, as my chemical makeup enables me to see yours.

Of course, what would be really interesting would be to determine whether tendencies to religious credulity are encoded in our DNA, and genetically inheritable.

I expect we will find out at some point.

But even if we do, I will not expect religionists to suddenly "see the light", and say hey, I was wrong all along.

Because the brain can block out all evidence that it does not like, in the same way that a drug addict remains in denial about his addiction for so long.

The brain won't let go.

Bugsy is more aware than most that God is the universe(s). It is unfortunate that the findings of quantum physics are not yet well known and if they were the realization that what we believe to be reality is in fact the result of packets of electrical energy would be apparent. Everything in the universe is consciousness, which creates all that we see and apprehend and the purpose of life is to expand consciousness and that is evident when looking solely at mankind which has developed from animal man to today’s educated man who can now control nature. Everything in the universe is consciousness, even the rocks, and the degree of consciousness depends on the distance one has travelled on the way to the source of the creation.

The universe began not with a “big bang” but with the release of energy from the Creator which gradually grew and coalesced into what we know as the universe in which we live and move and have our being. The hologram is a way of seeing what creation is. If a hologram is broken up into many pieces each piece will reflect the whole, albeit it in a somewhat inferior way. In effect we are the Creator, in a sense, and that is why it is important to look upon our fellow men as our brothers.

If you know very little, if anything, about the quantum world I suggest you do a search. You can also take a look at my website which contains an article titled “Connected Consciousness” plus other information that may be of interest – www.spiritualmusings.net

Gimmy

Dear Philo,

Your description suggests a manifestation through all things created, having an underpinning of consistancy, perhaps.

Whereas, humanity's account of its God or God's seems historical or even political. In Sumer before Abraham priesthoods seeminly managed the transition of garden societies to the first city states, there were tribal gods, and, a cultural anthrologists would posit, Yahew, a tribal deity, amongst rival deity's. The comes a Code of Law through Moses, maybe, two or three manifestations of Jesus between his time on earth and the indtitutionalisation of Him, wherein, the Roman Empire transmuted into the Holy Roman Church. Moreover, the above, is merely, the Christian path. There have been many others.

Do you see scriptures, Christian, or otherwise, as allegories, conduits, metaphors, or, something else, in so much as, you say, it is clearly not science? Said, scriptures would have runner believing that vegetarian lions and dinosurs, accompanied a person called Noah on an Ark, when the proto-Christian god destroyed the World.

Through my eyes gods, are all too often an anthropomorphic projection of humanity and its societies.

Cheers,

O

When Moses asked the same question, God replied “I AM that I AM” or “I shall be that I shall be”. In the original Hebrew, the statement is taken to transcend time and place.

God, therefore, has an ineffable name. He is not an anonymous force.

From this statement, all other existence is derivative.

Starting point and the beginning of Truth: God alone, IS.

All creatures receive all that they are, from Him.

He alone, is his very being.

He is of himself, everything that He is.

Now, where does that leave you Oliver? stevenlmeyer? Me?

We cannot make such an absolute claim. At least, we can be certain of this fact, even if we cannot as yet accept God’s AM-ness. We all at least can understand this much, that we cannot claim to transcend time. That we do not exist in an infinite universe. That we… in and of ourselves, ARE NOT. We are dependent on what IS.

Think on it.

God exists within each and everyone AND by himself. The uncreated CREATOR.

Then, if we can grasp this essential truth, it is much easier to understand Jesus’ claim as the Great “I AM”.

Jesus claims for himself, God’s IS-ness.

The core of Jesus’ BEING has facets which are all related to God..

Before Abraham was, I AM.

I AM … bread of life.

I AM… light of the world

I AM….from above

I AM…the door

I AM…good shepherd

I AM…resurrection and the life

I AM…the way, the truth and the life

I AM….true vine

I AM…..Alpha and Omega

I AM….first and last

I AM….he that lived, and was dead, and behold I am alive for evermore

I AM….he who searches the veins and hearts

I AM….root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.

How can I add to this any further, except to raise my eyes upward and acknowledge what IS.

Katie O wrote:

"We cannot make such an absolute claim. At least, we can be certain of this fact, even if we cannot as yet accept God’s AM-ness. We all at least can understand this much, that we cannot claim to transcend time. That we do not exist in an infinite universe. That we… in and of ourselves, ARE NOT. We are dependent on what IS."

Dear Katie O,

We can make any claim we like. That do not means that our claim is legitimate. It also does not mean the claim recorded in the Bible is legitimate.

Dear Pericles.. sorry if it seemed like I was picking on you :)

I was just making the point, that given the grandure and enormity of the Universe.. and what this says about it's Creator, it would be rather pointless for us to expect to know much about Him other than what He himself reveals.

We have a general awareness of the Universe, and our surroundings. The Bible asserts (Paul in particular) that this is enough information for us to be aware of God, but not to know much about Him.

It stands to reason that if God is there..He would let us know something more definitive about Him. This was done in the history of Israel via the Law and the prophets, and ultimately in Christ Jesus.

I'm not using the thread as a pulpit.. if I was I'd be applying the things I say to daily life.

Simple really.. "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and he supported that claim by the ultimate sign of raising the dead first (Lazarus) and finally Himself. "If I have the power to lay down my life, I also have the power to take it back"

The only things which separate our Lord from the other 'also ran' would be Messiah's are His signs, wonders and miracles....and His resurrection.

Here is one of your own fellow Poms..Bishop of Duhram N.T. Wright making a very persuasive case for this. He is the current 'trendy flavor of the year' Christian speaker.

http://www.roanoke.edu/crs/audio/NTWright-3-16-07.mp3

He is prolific.. well educated, easy to listen to...give him a try mate.

You might get homesick with the accent :)

Here he is on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELxNpUmA4Vs&feature=related

David F says:

[We can make any claim we like. That do not means that our claim is legitimate.]

DAvid.. refer my discussion above please.

Katie..well said sister :)