rashe,belly ,bugsy and robert
your response is here
http://www.civilrights.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=334.0

david f
i have read two sites trying to find about your statement[not proof]
QUOTE..>>Please read about the finches. All dogs are one species. All finches aren't..<<

and as far as i can tell ALL FINCHES ARE

so please prove your speculation that all finches are not

http://darwiniana.org/darfinch1.htm
http://www.biology-online.org/2/11_natural_selection.htm

shadow minestar
junk science allready includes intelligent design[thus rules out man doing it ,thus rules out science PROVING it. or alians doing it

but i note you offer no proof either

your faith is in a thoery
mine based on my own verfied facts
[those who dont do their own research decerve the spin they get]

this post is about verifying
if proof is out there [clearly it isnt]

thus evolution isnt a science
[please explain what you mean by

QUOTE;
..>>..When you only believe what supports your cause
it is called faith,
and is not to be confused with reason..<<

NOR FACT ,
and thus is the stage the abiogensis/evolution by natural [spontanious [natural] evolving]
[noting your muttering by not giving your proof]
im only asking it be presented here and now

dear lidwig

,changes within a species isnt changing into a new species

i have said mutations occur
[calling them micro evolutions]
as for the micro MUTATION being proof of macro evolution
that step is beyond the facts

call mutation what it is
it is not evolution
[its simple mutation ,within the species]

re your dogs, toads getting bigger

[search for hybred vigiour]
then please note that the proportion ratio [a verified science]
that covers the beaks mutations of darwin finches as well as your dogs [cats, toads or whatever]

my words cant validate your theory

even IF you proved creation fraud ,and it hasnt
[that still cant prove yours is true]

using my quotes hardly helps you prove your theory

Stevenlmeyer

“I am not going to respond to OUG any further”

I think that there is more value in this thread than just the debate with OUG. I’m learning stuff here. Cichlid speciation is fascinating.

I don’t expect OUG to change his tune. But I’m still interested in discussing stuff with him/her, as s/he has such a different value set to mine…and such a different writing style!

That’s one of the good things about this forum….encountering posters like this.

Although I must admit, I’m becoming a little suspicious of the writing style. When posters’ names get repeatedly misspelt it makes me wonder whether it might not all be a put-on. So far I’ve been called ludwig, LUDWIC and lidwig (:>|

Stick with it Steven.

"[EVOLUTIONISTS ONLY PLEASE]"

I really wanna abuse you for that.

It’s obvious we are the most intelligent creatures on earth. We are curious and clever creatures and this has helped us make great inroads into investigating and gathering data about ourselves and our world. Through observation and experimentation, we’ve developed incredible methods of inquiry. We have minutely recorded those observations and generously passed that knowledge on down over time, always combining it with a very human striving for empirical evidence and measurable truths.

The search for empirical and measurable evidence to test a previous generation’s hypotheses is not waning, if anything it is speeding up. Our awareness of the future’s scrutiny of our observations and calculations has made us, to our credit, deliberately careful with our hypothesis. We're searching for our beginnings, we're getting right down to the nano levels and realistically it shouldn't be too long before we know the truth about the where, why and how of our existence. Personally I don't think its an intelligent designer.

We can all see the good and the bad of human behavior. If you think a supernatural being is guiding all this, don’t you think its odd that nothing in reality fits the picture that is being presented by religionists and their books? Does it occur to you that actual hard evidence of a supreme being is sadly lacking in any form whatsoever?

Conversations and arguments about the evidence of our beginnings and the evidence of creationism are going on all over the world facilitated by the internet. My observations are that evidence-belief comes down to whether or not you have been subjected to a childhood that presented you with religious dogma as empirical truth. If you have a religious background it follows that you will have great difficulty with the very real concept of empirical and measurable truths, because you will have been taught not to question anything, or demand proof about creation but to have blind faith in what your religion has demanded you believe.

OUG I would be interested to know why you appear to be so sneeringly confident with what you've called verified facts?

OUG,
"[but i been studying evolution process for 30 years"
As someone who's been studying evolution for 30 years, have you found out the difference between breeds and species yet?

celiva
quote..>>have you found out the difference between breeds and species yet?..<<here is a link[to help you prove the[your theory]

im not sure you have heard of them
but they help make clear whatever point your trying to make

http://www.ratbehavior.org/RatSpecies.htm

trikkerdee
quote
>>..My observations are that evidence-belief comes down to whether or not you have been subjected to a childhood that presented you with religious dogma as empirical truth..<<
in my case my father informed me the bible was nonsense[claimed to have read it 3 times]so,I,never read the bible till mid to late thirties

hope it invalidates your theory
but what are facts right?
[quote]>>..If you have a religious background it follows that you will have great difficulty with the very real concept of empirical and measurable truths..<<end quote

that is a presumption[fear or bias]
i would ask you to prove[or recant]

[quote]..>>because you will have been taught not to question anything,..<<funny how when we asume

i was taught question EVERYTHING
strike 2?
..>>or demand proof about creation but to have blind faith in what your religion has demanded you believe..<<

as stated i have no blind faith in anything
i do not have any'religion'i just know god is real
how i know is none of your buisness[and not the topic of the debate]

>>..OUG I would be interested to know why you appear to be so sneeringly confident with what you've called verified facts?..>>

the tone of your posts suggests not to tell you a thing
pearls before SS wine comes to mind

please try to restrict comment and provide FACT to the topic?

StG sorry i didnt want to cause collateral damage

[the biggest sin is to decieve ANYONE of their honest held beliefs in the higherPOWER][that is spiritually speaking]

but feel free[to comment][i didnt mean to be excluding anyone]
at times i have felt believers help me
but god is doing just fine
giving more than i asked[as usual]

[i really just didnt want it to become a slanging match]
just the facts to topic[is what that small voice suggested]