CJ "actually working against the best interests of the country, people or environment"

I took that to refer to the fact that many of us are spending our time discussing, arguing, rebutting the same crowd over and over again here rather than spending that time writing letters to pollies and others who have an actual role in decisions.

I have the hope that there is a greater possibility of actually impacting on others thinking here compared to being the author of yet another letter to a polly, filtered by a staffer and responded to with a form letter. Some of what we learn here may impact on our response to issues in discussions elsewhere, I know that I've learned lots in my time on OLO and that flows on into my attitudes elsewhere.

R0bert

I'm a fascinated with this conversation. It's my perception that very few opinions have changed in the course of a debate. And the academic literature tends to support that perception.

If anyone has changed their mind on an issue, I'd like to hear about it. Perhaps when we are engaged in the debate our minds appear fixed, but away from the debate, when it's not a matter of potentially losing face, we do change our minds?

It was one of our hopes in founding OLO that people would change their minds, and we deliberately tried to avoid building a site where only one side of the argument would be represented. Cass Sunstein's work on polarisation of group discussions was particularly influential.

Graham, my experience is part of a broader change in a lot of values but OLO forms a large part of my chance to explore other viewpoints.

Changes I can think of where I'm confident that OLO has played a significant role.
- David JS and in particular one post from some years ago got me thinking about homosexual men more broadly than I previouslty had. At the time the public persona of the male gay community was very camp and David put up a post basically saying how "blokey" he was which in itself proved little but triggered a significant rethink on my part.
- Whilst I've disagreed with CJ Morgan quite often I've also agreed with him enough that I had a better look at what the Greens are about and changed attitudes there.
- I think exposure to both sides of the argument regarding feminism has forced me to rethink some views on that front. My sympathy and support for the need for feminism has been increased significantly from contact with some very thoughtful feminists and by the extremes of some of the feminist opponents.

I'll think about that some more. There will be other changes where OLO has played a big part in changing my views over time. Maybe not often within a specific discussion but rather as triggers for longer term rethinks.

R0bert

Graham,

1. I haven't changed my position on supporting secularism. However, researching for the OLO debate, has have me now lean more towards the probability Jesus Christ existed in history. Before OLO, I felt he might be a composite of several people.

One frustration, I guess, is some parties will debate and jump thread, especially, if the discourse is not their liking. Likewise, when citations are provided to support an argument, it is poor form when those holding counter-views disappear, rather than present a stronger case or concede. (Abeit, Boaz-Poly did eventually concede that Herold the Great was not alive when Jesus was born)

To my opposition, George and Philo seem to engage in true debate. I have enjoyed those encounters, respecting their posits. Sells preaches but doesn't engage. Sells is like a Lanchester over Dresden, he drops a few bombs and leaves. Boaz-Poly, is, I feel, somewhere in between, answering some points raised, while creating new threads, whilst there was plenty meat on the old ones: He does have an up-tick side.

2. Happy Third OLO Birthday, Ludwig. I wonder, if Graham can arrange something with Hallmark to produce OLO anniversary cards? :-

Hmmm "For Lud's a jolly good poster... and so type all of us."

Best wishes to Ludwig and to all,

Oly

Happy anniversay Ludwig! I do enjoy reading your posts - well done!

The greatest benefit to posters on OLO, I believe, is the knowledge imparted by others - often from opponents too. And if you are a crusader with a passion, far better to bore the tripe out of posters than a continual soapbox bombardment of the poor old family and friends eh? Happily, posters aren't obliged to participate in a subject which to them, contains little interest.

Apart from that, I bet there are just as many reading these threads as there are participating.

And rest assured, governments and their agencies hate reading negative comments about themselves.

Obtaining information from libraries these days is often too time consuming and though most OLO participants probably don't believe they make a difference to society, I am of the opposite view. It is far simpler to download information these days from your computer. The important part is to distinguish fact from fallacy.

For "a man without knowledge is a danger to society."

Cheers

I think OLO has a value... but it would probably be small?
A good effort by one Graham Young etc anyway.
The concept is good, but the age is poor.
Most things have been done and the growing rebellion in society leads many not to listen...to anything.

I think its too late for it to have much political influence because of the strength of One World Government upon Australia.

The politcians live in their own world manipulated by faceless men from overseas ...and because of technology theres little need for them to leave their offices anyway.

They no longer know the people.

Towns and bush communities will need to look after themselves from now on...re: medical, food, policing.
Find what you can on the endtimes.

OLO is a good venue for those few who want to express their thoughts on many subjects.

As with all YOUR SAYS it encourages some violence.

I get aggitated after a few weeks and have to leave, like now for a few weeks.

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas if I dont see you before... and dont forget what Christmas is all about.

HIS Name is Jesus.

A tip for a recession?
Be happy to learn to live with less:)