david f:

The education curiculum in Australian states is not based on 'whatever the majority view is' becuase Australia is a democracy. It is developed by experts in education, whos views (I hope) may be very different to the majority of the population. Things that are taught in an education system should have a factual basis - objective evidence should be in support. The teaching of superstitious beliefs and fantasy stories is not education (unless it is being portrayed as such), it is indoctrination. And any goverment doing its job should be doing everything possible to protect its children from such abuse.

Indoctrination is like a virus which is extremely difficult to treat, we should quarantine those already affected to make sure they don't infect anyone else

david f,
Of course I agree but I did not have “mathematical advances” in mind but rather a child‘s ability to understand abstract concepts. You would confuse a child just learning his/her multiplication tables with the notion of non-commutative groups, (the same as you would confuse students in your introductory course on calculus if you started to talk about distributions and the Dirac function).

I think this applies to all abstract concepts of philosophy and science: the child has to start at some uncritical, naive, level where it cannot tell the difference between physics and chemistry or between critical philosophy and the world-view rooted in his/her parents‘ religion or “irreligion”. You have to be at least a teenager to understand the meaning of “timeo hominem unius libri”.

Rolf Nevanlinna once mentioned the following anecdote that you might appreciate. The famous mathematician was invited to an American family at the times when “new maths” was being introduced in the schools. The eight year old daughter boasted that she also was learning mathematics. So Nevanlinna asked:
“What did you learn about today?”
“Empty sets.”
“And what is an empty set?”
“It is a green cow.”
This is apparently the way most eight years old brains can handle the statement “the set of green cows is empty“.

P.S.: I know from another thread that you turned/are going to turn 83 this month. So sincere Happy Birthday congratulations even if they might be belated.

George,

Your terminology leaves a lot to be desired. “Christian nor anti-Christian” May I remind you that Atheists are not specifically anti-Christian, if anything, we are anti specific religious indoctrination. Christianity just fits into that description amongst the 20,000 others we reject.

Atheist indoctrination is just a figment of the imagination of many religious folk. Unless it is considered an indoctrination process to teach children every thing known about religious observance and none and then allowing them as mature adults to choose a world view on all the available information.

What is the content of this imagined Atheist indoctrination program, George? I would be very interested to know, as I have never heard of such an animal.

David

David Nicolls,

I never mentioned any “Atheist indoctrination program“ which only proves that we are talking past each other, except that I never described your - or anybody else’s - world-view in disparaging words, only asked for mutual tolerance, respect and politeness. Anyhow, there are many respectable world-views compatible with atheism, the same as there are many compatible with the basic (symbolic) tenets of Christianity or some other religion. I cannot know which one is yours (only what you are against), neither can you know which one is mine. So, I repeat, please let us just leave it at that and let us each enjoy the view of this amazing world we share from our own “observation points” that we apparently do not share.

George,

Throw away lines such as this need challenging.

“I would not call Christian education indoctrination any more than I would call an education based on values acceptable to atheists moral corruption or something like that, because - if for no other reasons - in both cases one should avoid such sweeping statements.”

This is a poor attempt at confusing indoctrination with education. Education is how to think about the known evidence presented and indoctrination concerns itself with what to think without any evidence.

There is a galaxy of difference between the two. Asking that we acknowledge our differences does not resolve it.

Maybe you should do as self suggested and just observe.

David

"I read on a website today that the Holy Bible sells between 30 and 100 million copies every year.

Thats power, REAL power:)
Posted by Gibo, Monday, 3 November 2008 5:50:15 PM"

That's not power - that's *mindlessness* - and a small example of why it is so important that religious irrationality needs to be countered.

Other reasons lie with the undue influence of religion on the state, of tax exempt status for religious activities, of the myth that holds church-going and belief in god as synonymous with goodness, and of the perversion that is indoctrination of children in crass stupidity and mindlessness - at an age when they are unable to recognise such brainwashing for what it is, and unable to protect themselves from it.

Congratulations to the Foundation for an excellent initiative to combat a major curse on humanity - religion in all its forms.