I think this sums up the argument rather nicely.

http://shoutwire.com/fullpicture/faithscience_jpg8700d32d-3501-4251-8284-e2d2024e5a44.jpg

I understand it's too late for my vote to make a difference, but no, we shouldn't debate it because yes, it does decrease the credibility of this site.

These kinds of debate are the reason I rarely visit anymore.

It's all going tremendously well so far. The majority of the thread is the usual slanging match with side servings of witchcraft and the odd reference to fossils and sediment. Pretty much business as usual.

The general forum is the only one I'm aware of that operates this way, where the excellent idea of letting participants start their own topics is negated and devalued by the participants themselves. It's a terrible shame.

Having allowed this creationist experimental thread, is it possible to consider a moratorium on any religious reference whatsoever for, say, a fortnight, to see whether the situation improves? Or perhaps ban all atheists for a fortnight and see how that pans out?

McFly,

Both scientists and historians accept the notion of the possibility of error. Constructs are held tentatively and retested and held to be falsifiable. Individuals' pride aside, scientists ideally agree to justifiable paradigm shifts (Kuhn, Popper). Christian religionists don't, about the kernel belief that god "created" the universe and life. [However, I guess religions do evolve. The gods of Abraham, Moses & Paul/Nicaea (Jesus), are different constructs.]

As I mentioned in above, creation myths in religion, have much to with the idea of a god's "free will" to create things, whereas the universe being subject to the laws of physics is deterministic.

- Regarding Genesis: Why would an omnipotent god need to rest?

Organisms rest (and eat) because they need re-constitute having encountered the second law of thermodynamics. If a god is subject to experiencing an increase in entropy, said god is playing in the orchestra, rather than being the conductor of a fundamental physical process. Can said god, be a god,if its state of entropy is "determined" by external laws?

yeah a debate is a pain

especially one based on faith [as if however you chose what you believe after carefull study can be changed in a single post] those who have faith god [or faith in science] believe as they chose

but
THEY MUST BE ALLOWED TO CHOSE

its all about what we chose to believe ,

i feel the 'debate' needs to be divided into its sub headings

like no xtians can quote the bible [re the 7000 earth years; its not in the bible [its presumed] as if any day is a day equally for man [or god]
[primatives measure today yesterday and tomorrow ,a moon or a season [science 'measures' in light years and theories [each needs its own SUBHEADING buzz word ]

so we need intelligent design DEBAIT, and natural s-election ,evolve [ie the meanings behind the name to be agreeable solidified [PROVEN}or disproven [like 'strawman' or the first 'life' that 'evolved'[when the science PROVES we devolve]to maintain a species norm [wildtype]

on the personal i studied the science [then the religion]

i proved science cant EVEN make ITS OWN living cell [let alone evolved it] [thus the THEORY of evolving [and 'intermediates' /missing links

[that somehow DONT egsist nor survive ;NOT A SINGLE ONE]despite via natural selection [whatever that natural OR selection may define SCIENTIFICly]and despite SUPPOSEDLY [theoreticlly , being higher evolutions]

so must by topic must be debated via its terms being clarified
and defined [as to what segments or starting point is of course [as usual] at the whim of the editor]

till i see science MAKE [evolve ] its own life , i will presume the TRUE cause of our creations [gifts of living] to be by powers ABOUVE that of scientrysts ;the gene counters [or theorists] ;

cosmic natural select science and the aithiests who support any theory that removes god [and morals ] from their systems and material lives

dear wobbles
simp-listic link
its typical of athiests [using science]

[as the link remains in this debate it must be replied]
i shall not be as peter was found wanting]
to wit perform an experiment [we who believe call that 'test'[experiment prayer ;till you tried it with a pure heart it dont work

we believers have tested [performed BILLIONS of experimentsin hundreds of beliefs pointing at the same god]

WE PROVED THAT the evidence does support the idea

and yes further theories were created[each formed its own speciality ;like blind men feeling an eliphant
WE TESTED and founf a bit of the elephant in the room bro

believe it or not science DOPNT do charity
but believers charity HAS led to better understandings [too]

we discovered many sciences [math astronomy[mendelism ,writing books
hey bro science HAS the runs on the boards [religions founded education ,exploraTION ,charity , money ,its roots bro COMES from these many BELIEF systems [even govt uses the lords prayer ,law uses the HIGHEST [local] religious text[aithiests seek to bring down govt/law?

can the theory be modified
has been hundreds of vtimes bro
we had revolutions as god explained MANY other theories

and yes now we ALL get a bit closer to knowing the allness of the light giving life [the one true life giver]

but bro believe as your natural selectivity allows
cheers
so we agree on the first two points [of your link]

start and get an idea
then the aithiest reveals itself [via how it expresses its idea [fruits]