A very real chance exists that in electing John MC Cain America is electing Palin.
MC Cains age and health has to be of concern, his chances of serving two terms depend on him living till he is over 80 years of age.
No ill will intended to him ,he is without doubt a brave man but can he live these next 4 years?
And is Palin the person to lead America?
My view is no, in a choice between Obamma and this red neck lady I hope for a Democratic win.

America deserves everything they get if they vote in McCain and that new cute little puppy of his. What are her credentials again?, oh, none?, really?. If they vote that in we're all in for a LONG drive.

At least Obama has the rhetoric of someone who's a forward thinker. All pollies are the same, full of it, but the yanks (and the world) need a change from the same sort of 'foreign policy' (lol cough cough BOOM) as the last few years.

Gawd, imagine that - it'd be like us having Pauline Hanson as PM, except on a much larger scale and with access to a nuclear trigger.

Scary stuff indeed.

Seriously, I think the Democrats will make much of this possibility in months to come, and the American electorate will vote accordingly.

The carnal part of me looks at the 'panic' going on and finds it hilarious :)

*SMACK SMACK*.. no no no.. you must not do that! Ok.. the flesh is now under control

Belly...As soon as I saw your title.. I thought exactly as you wrote...
Yep..it COULD HAPPEN...

Stg.. You need a heck of a lot more than 'rhetoric' to run the most powerful country in the world mate.

CJ.. I note your 'frightened monkey' look :) you know.. the lips pulled back.. the wide eyes.. mine used to do that all the time.. if it did it while sitting on my shoulder I had to kick it off realllly fast or it crapped on me.. that's the aspect of 'frightened monkey look' that most people don't see.

PALIN FOR PRES :) hmmmm "Sarah.. Saaaaarah.. ... I'll never find another girl like youuuuuu"

Stg.. You need a heck of a lot more than 'rhetoric' to run the most powerful country in the world mate.

Posted by Polycarp, Thursday, 11 September 2008 8:44:51 AM

Yeah, YA think...mate.

My interest doesn't go past what effect a new yank boss would have on us.

Bush equalled bad (understatement of the millennia). McCain = Bush. Palin's resume is zero. She'll be a trained seal if McCain goes 'toes up'.

Obama is a bit more of a unknown quantity, to me. Clinton has an ex-pres as an advisor. The yanks could use an african american with Muslim ties (no matter how loose they may be) to soften up the ill-feeling from the ME. It would be great, historically, to see him in power, as well.

That's as far as I look into it. I don't give a toss about pregnant daughters, or how many colleges someone has been too. It's all smoke and mirrors to me. I'm interested in what happens to my wage and my people as a result of what happens on the other side of the world.

Polycarp “The carnal part of me looks at the 'panic' going on and finds it hilarious :)”

I must agree PC, the left of centre seem to be getting quite hysterical over the possibility of their “posterboy”, Obama, not becoming the next president.

Those who relished Hilary’s empowerment but saw her ‘ego’ prevail over running second on the ticket, have steeped themselves in a campaign of vilification regarding Sarah.

I have always been sure that those empowered to vote in US presidential elections (the Americans) , will elect the person right for the job and based on a more intimate knowledge of the candidates than we.

Anyway, from the news overnight, it sounds as though Obama’s running scared and off at the mouth, not the sort of panicky and unsteady hand anyone should want on the nuclear button.

On a comparative basis, having seem her speech last week, she comes across as a lady with the right attitude to don mantle previously worn by dearest Margaret Thatcher and in these troubling times, that is the ideal person to sit at the centre of power .

Porky, take your meds - you're raving again.

Col Rouge: << she comes across as a lady with the right attitude to don mantle previously worn by dearest Margaret Thatcher >>

Oh puke. And when was the iron maiden V-P of the USA, exactly?

Do have a nice yum cha with your frootloop mate. I recommend the tripe in black bean sauce - you seem to share a fondness for it.

I still do not understand why McCain chose Palin to be VP. It seems to be more of a stratgic move to capitalize on the 'female with balls'vacumn left with the exit of Hiliary. This whole situation with Palin feels instictively wrong on so many levels.

Now let me argue with myself. Palin is an interesting sort- I suppose a curious novelty at this stage. She certainly has a charisma about her- she is strangely interesting. I suppose we will see what she is all about whenever she agrees to meeting with the media. And by the way- that is also strange- why has she NOT been interviewed by the US media yet?

Hopefully the Yanks will be smart enough vote on the issues and not the personalities and be brave enough to embrace the change that is overdue.

Stg,

I am just loving the discomfort of those on the left now that their candidate is no longer a sure thing.

I love it even more when Obama supporting id!ots suggest with a straight face that Palin hasn't had any experience. Palins been the Governor of the state of Alaska. All Obama has ever done is write two self indulgent memoirs. An incredible self obsession for a man who has no legislative achievment to his name.

Obama is a FIRST TERM senator. How you even have the gall to suggest Palin doesn't have the experience is beyond me.

Palin far more closely meets the expectations of the US voting public than any of the other candidates, including McCain. She has shown that she is prepared to take on her own party to do what she believes is right and she has an 80% approval rating in her home state. Thats the highest of any govenor in the US. She must be doing something right.

BTW, I love the class prejudice that the loony left feel totally unembarressed by. I take it Its OK to make derogratory comments about someone else's lifestyle, as long as that lifestyle isn't one of the pre-approved leftist variety. Country people unfortunately don't make the cut, is that right? Nor do the religous, unless the religion is not Christianity, in which case the left will support your right to practice your religion absolutely.

I don't mind the idea of a female President. My concern isn't that she's from a conservative background or she believes in guns, Anti abortion,et al. I don't but so what? None of which necessarily effects me.

What does worry me is that(any)war could be from God (so much for the bible and its teachings)!With that sort of insanity/inanity I wonder how many people are going to find out 1st hand prematurely if there is really a god or not because of her.

Perhaps the ancient Greeks were right the God(s) are capricious and indifferent to mankind (playthings). On that line is she planing on being the mother of the new Hercules.

Paul.L.

Sorry mate. It seems you mistook me for someone who cares. I made it fairly clear where I stand on the topic. If you have issues with comprehending opinions - like many other do when it comes to this left and right rubbish (FYI: I'm right wing on some topics, and I'm fricken Ghandi on others) - of people you have issue with, please take a breath after reading what I say, then leave, have a cuppa, then come back and say whatever it is you think I might give a toss about.

I care about the effect their elections have on my wage and my people. 'My people' being my family, friends and neighbours. Anything else, I. JUST. DON'T. CARE.

...and don't try and bait me. I'm WAY better at that stuff than you.

Onya.

CJ Morgan "I recommend the tripe in black bean sauce"

I can imagine a picture of CJM salivating and consuming a huge plate of tripe...

simply captioned

"the Awful and the Offal"

or maybe

"the wasteral and the entrail"

perhaps

"the gutless and the gut"

but in the end settling on

"He is what he eats - Tripe"

I just posted this on another thread but it may have been better suited to this one.

Seems to me that she's a sort of circuit breaker only meant to change the the direction of the current debate.

This presents a little more depth to her background, but of course it's always in the eye of the beholder.

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%e2%80%9cracist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%e2%80%9d/#more-954

There’s a difference between being spunky and being snarky, being able to inspire and being able to get a laugh.

I suspect when voters consider a candidate’s abilities, the best substitute for competency won’t be sarcasm - but then again, this is the USA.

Col

Please lift your head from that plate of tripe and wipe that black bean from your upper lip..... thank you.

My questions to you are as follows:

Was Margaret Thatcher a creationist?

Sarah Palin is.

Like yourself, was Maggie pro-choice?

Palin most definitely is not.

Margaret Thatcher is well educated and an intellectual giant in comparison to Palin. Therefore, I very much doubt Palin is about to don her mantle any time soon.

Have you no discernment at all?

You can put your snout back in the trough now.

Cheers

COL! if I don't give you a hi 5 next time we meet.. remind me I'm supposed to :) *the awful and the offal* :) awesome mate!

poorrrrr CJ.. aah well.. we lub ya. Don't worry. you give your share of snide remarks.. getting a few back should at least keep the balance.

If a PM is a creationist or an evolutionist.. does it matter?

If it matters to some that he/she might be a Creationist..then.. WELCOME to our world of worry about PM' s who might be evolutionists and who have nothing but 'survival of the fittest' as their foundation for policy making. Yes..I can imagine how THAT might turn out if let loose from the assylum.

-cull the deformed.
-cull the disabled.
-brothels next to schools
-legalized hard drugs

etc etc ad absurdum.

Gday PaulL thanks for the grin, its me Belly over here on your left, not quite loony but much further left than you.
Want to bet me the lady from Americas far north will win?
Oh I am an Obamma idiot too, lets include him in the bet.
You seem to be saying after 8 years of an idiot running America we are now to get 4 more years of heading in the wrong direction.
I have more faith in Americans than that.

Since Sir John Winstone retired (albeit involuntary) the left have been looking for someone else they can hate. The Feminist, the earth worshipers, the homosexual lobby, the god haters are lining up in droves to vent their displeasure against Sarah. Why? Because she values the disabled and the unborn. She calls sin sin and that just exposes the hypocrisy of those judging her. Even Oprah is showing her true colours refusing to give her any airtime. I actually find it all very funny. NO doubt Sarah will also expose how dumb and unscientific the high priests of global warming are.

Well, there's no accounting for taste.

Heehaw!

We can only keep our fingers crossed
that the gun-toting "Annie Oakley,"
and her old "military" cow-poke running
mate, don't appeal to the greater majority
of Americans.

I'd like to see her in an honest news-conference,
instead of "barnstorming" safe crowds with
socko punch lines.

To me, more is required of any serious candidate
for such a high office than the,

"When Ah itches,
Ah scratches," mentality

that's been displayed by Palin to date.

There are candidates out there who are aware
that there is a world outside the borders of
the United States. Palin's not one of them.

And Col, What's with you making a comparison
to Maggie Thatcher? The Grand Dame would
seriously take you to task over such an insult.

Maggie was democratic enough to talk down to
anyone. Palin, has to be taught the finer
rudiments of the English language. Maggie
could answer questions. Palin wouldn't
know how.

As Maggie once stated, "Tact is the ability
to tell someone they have an "open mind," when in
reality they have a hole in the head!"

The subtlety would be lost on Palin.

Let America decide on it's own destiny. There should be more than enough going on in AU to keep your trigger finger happy.

The Democrats had their chance with Hillary Rodhan Clinton, however she was denied the chance to become USA's First Female President.

Further more to make matters worse Barack Obama failed to offer her the vice presidency and electing someone who has been aroound for years (experience says Obama).

If Obama was serious about change he would have picked Hillary R Clinton and shown the world, what real change is.

On the other hand Senator John McCain, when further and picked Sarah Palin for vice president and showed what change is all about.

To the Democrats demise, Sarah Palin's CHARISMA is so overwhelming that Obama is running scared and resorting to dirty slander.

Sarah Palin would do a great job as she clearly shows that she is not a monkey, no brains as JW BUSH. No ! Sarah Palin is the real, an articulate great looking woman, who deserves to be where she is.

Look at Obama background, so detached from reality, so fake, so puppet like. Do you think a man who lets his half brother live in extreme poverty, cares for other ordinary Amerins? I think not.....

SARAH PALIN FOR VICE PRESIDENT 09

Col - what's a "wasteral"? It wasn't you putting someone down on another thread about their spelling, was it?

Porky: << COL! if I don't give you a hi 5 next time we meet.. remind me I'm supposed to :) >>

Can you please get somebody to record that and put it on YouTube? I suggest you both wipe your faces first,

runner: << Sir John Winstone bla bla >>

Sir John Winstone? That is truly cracked.

Palin4eva - what can I say? I hope you're really humble and miserable when Obama inevitably wins.

What a circus. From where I sit, whatever happens the world will get another right wing American president. One of them is slightly less so than the current warmongering idiot, while the other one has few redeeming features other than he mightn't last all that long.

Which is why Palin is slightly scary. However, as I've said, I think that those Americans who actually vote will support the more moderate approach represented by Obama and Biden.

Then you can all suck eggs.

"HOLLYWOOD BRILLIANCE"

"I think there is a real chance Sarah Palin could become president..and that's a really SCARY thing.. because I don't know anything about her"

Does anyone beside me see it ? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxkrm9uEJk

Isn't it a delight for C.J Morgan to post something. His elegance, his sense of style and poise, his remarkable way with words, his lack of abuse of ther people.

What a wonder, and to know that he taught in a university does give one a feeling of total security

So does knowing you didn't, HRS.

Thanks Bugsy.

Isn't it past your bedtime, Timmy?

BD David Polyplcarp I agree that is why I started the thread.
Her chances of leading America if Mc Cain wins are good.
She looks good but this is not a beauty pageant.
I can not help but see the difference between Hilary Clinton and her, Clinton was never my choice but a skilled politician.
Surely Palin as president turns America into a real concern for all of us?

Dear Belly,

We should all be concerned if McCain and Palin
get elected into the House they call White.

I mean look at the last Republican and what he
is leaving behind... Certainly he had a way with
words: Here's a few reminders from George W. Bush:

"Rarely is the question asked: 'Is our children
learning?'"

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."

and

"I'm honoured to shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen
who had his hand cut off by Saddam Hussein."

Giving Bush his daily war briefing Rumsfeld ended by
saying, "Yesterday three Brazilian soldiers were killed."
"Oh No!" exclaimed Bush. "That's terrible."
His staff were stunned by the display of emotion.
Finally Bush raised his head from his hands and asked,
"Ok, so how many is a Brazilian?"

Sarah Palin's political career has been brief. Here
are a few of her famous quotes:

On the war in Iraq: "I've been so focused on State
Government. I haven't really focused much on war elsewhere."

On gun rights: "I am a lifetime member of the National
Reflemen's Association (NRA). I support our Constitutional
right to bear arms!"

On polar bears: " believe that listing polar bears
as an endangered species is a significant threat to
development."

Her favourite meal is: "Moose stew after a day of
snowmachining."

What a gal!

Foxy

After reading your post, even George W is looking better - and I never thought I'd say that.

Although I thought "what's a 'brazilian'" hilarious on many levels. Ouch!

However, it is reassuring to know that Palin prefers to focus on the wars in State Government, than those 'foreign' ones.

ROFL

Dear Fractelle,

When Palin was asked if she'd ever been "overseas?"

She said, "Of course I've travelled. I've been to
Hawaii, AND Canada!"

And when asked about her understanding of "Foreign
Policy?" Her reply was that she can see Russia,
from the shores of Antarctica!

As I said, "What a gal!"

Foxy, she also said she had been to Mexico - very funny stuff.

If it wasn't so serious, I would feel a bit sorry for Palin having being elevated so quickly to the ranks of potential VP and her trial by media. Bad choice by McCain from a responsibility point of view but it seems that from an image perspective it might be working. Since elevating Palin, the support from American white women has shifted somewhat to the Republicans.

I think dear Maggie would be mortified to know that she is being compared to Palin by one of her staunch OLO supporters. :)

Pelican

I agree. Even though I disagree with many of her policies, Margaret Thatcher is a genuine statesperson and intellectual in comparison to Palin. I find it hilarious and not a little disturbing that Maggie's greatest fan considers Palin to be in her league.

I am going to remain optimistic that McCain's choice of VP will be a huge mistake for the Republicans and that Obama will be the USA's next president.

What we think of Palin will have zero impact on the election.
What frightens the hell out of me in the Disney land/Hollywood world of American politics she has a very real chance of getting to the very top.
Do not be surprised at the follower of Maggie falling for Palin such is human nature.
It is quite possible like most of us their had never heard of this Moose hunting gal two weeks ago.
Look at foxys quotes from Bush, know pages and pages could be reproduced here, yet he won twice?
Or did he?
Not he did not such is politics American style.

Dear Belly,

Politics American style, scares the
living daylights out of me. You're right!

Did you ever see the film with Robert Redford,
called, "The Candidate?"

Where "The Candidate<" gets elected to
the office of US President due to clever
speech writers, and media hype.
And once elected, his writers and team, back off,
leaving him to his own devices.

The film ends with the Candidate asking,
"What do I do now?"

It happened with George W. Bush. It can
easily happen again.

Pelican “I think dear Maggie would be mortified to know that she is being compared to Palin by one of her staunch OLO supporters. :)”

Margaret Thatcher worked up through the ranks of politics in UK, she did not start as Prime Minister, in fact she said

“It will be years - and not in my time - before a woman will lead the party or become prime minister. “(1974)

The point is, you have to be able to see how people can grow, rise to the occasion.

It all starts with attitude and an ability to sift the wheat from the chaff.

In this respect, McCain has been doing it for years, Palin shapes up as having been doing it at City and State level and if McCain were to be unable, for whatever reason, to maintain his office, Palin would, I am sure, rise to the occasion

Just as Gerald Ford rose to the office of Vice President, following the resignation of Spiro Agnew and then to President, following Nixon’s impeachment.

Conversely Obama, if he rode a bicycle, would still be using training wheels, just as we see Krudd seeking the continued support of committees because he cannot wield the authority of high office.

Like I said, you need to be able to see the potential, based on the present.

Foxy: The Candidate – the point you miss is the conspiracy of the plot blew up for the most mundane of reasons. That’s the problem with conspiracies, they fail because the most innocuous of unforeseen events intercede.

Serendipity at its best.

As for American Politics, I lived there for a few years, the idea of democracy is enshrined far deeper than here even, I feel we would be better served with an elected judiciary and municipal officials who were more accountable than the time-serving bureaucrats we end up with.

And if you are scared about the power of USA, thank God it is there because for half a century it is what stood between the freedom we take for granted and the cesspool of communism.

Dear Col,

America stood against the "cesspool" of communism?

Tell that to the people of the countries
that the Soviet regime
occupied. Look up the Yalta Conference.
And, see how Roosevelt and Churchill happily
handed over territories to Stalin.

Let's not forget the veil of silence that shrouded the
tragedy of the Baltic Nations. Just as one example
of America's "stance against communism."
Let us not forget that
the policy of Western democracies, including the United
States, although formally
was one of non-recognition of the Soviet occupation of
the Baltic Nations, the reality as these people found
out the hard way was a toally different story. Western
democracies, including the big brave US did not want to
offend the Soviet Union. They closed their eyes and ears to
the people's suffering.

This attitude prevailed up to the 1990s. Former
Lithuanian President, Vytautas Landsbergis, was told to
"negotiate," that "unruly Lithuanians should respect and
follow orderly Soviet constitutional procedures."

And this, despite the fact that the world recognized that
Lithuania was illegally incorporated into the Soviet
Union. In other words, that Lithuania was not seeking to
establish independence. It was seeking to restore an
independent nation that was illegally suppressed by a
foreign power and its army.

As President V. Landsbergis pointed out, "This was not a
legal nicety but the basic and non-negotiable premise of the
March 11th 1990 Declaration of Independence."

But, President Landsbergis was still urged by the US, "To
find, a fair and objective way out!" And as he continually
confirmed, "the offered solutions are neither fair nor
objective!"

*Like I said, you need to be able to see the potential, based on the present.*

I will have to agree to disagree with you on this one Col, for I see
Sarah as the pig with lipstick and the lipstick does not change much.
I have yet to see where she shows any wisdom, more like a bull-pit.

The thing is, America was in reasonable political and economic shape
where Clinton handed it over to George and George has taken the
place to the edge of the cliff. Greenspan was on Bloomberg yesterday,
pointing out that under Bush, Americans had received around 3 trillion
$ worth of tax cuts, financed by borrowings from China, Japan etc.
It is simply not sustainable and I have yet to see where either
Republican candidate has any kind of understanding of economics.

Next you have both McCain and Palin, war mongering about Russia.
Frankly I don't blame the Russians for being pissed off, with the
Americans wanting to surround their country with missiles.
The US did not react too well either, when the Russians stationed
them in Cuba.

I support Obama, as I back his judgment. He understands that the US
has been a pit-bull in world affairs and that it has been a failure.
Not only that, its all financed with borrowed money.

I have yet to see where either McCain or Hurricane Sarah, understand
these kind of basic realities. But no doubt the Walmart White moms
will vote for her and perhaps swing the elections. Frankly, if
the Americans want to take on Russia, you are entering rather
dangerous territory for global affairs

Foxy “Tell that to the people of the countries
that the Soviet regime
occupied. Look up the Yalta Conference.
And, see how Roosevelt and Churchill happily
handed over territories to Stalin.”

I never took you as being so naïve Foxy.

The first rule of politics is “it is the art of the possible”

Check your history books, Churchill, for one, certainly anticipated the approach of Stalin and
I am sure Roosevelt, despite his ill health also realized it and maybe Truman was too new ot the role to appreciate fully the monstrosity of Stalin and his communist swill.

But to get back to the first rule… what on earth did you expect them to do about it, other than “hold the line” along which the communists built their wall and gun turrets.

I suggest if you want to blame anyone for the plight of those who were enslaved in central/eastern Europe, you blame the communist/socialist swill and the "fifth column" of Lenins “useful idiots”, whose personal and intellectual inadequacies believed the lies of Marxist/Communist socialism.

“Baltic Nations.”

The problem of “the Baltic states” is pretty obvious. All three of the southern Baltic states suffer a problem of geography. Finland also experienced it to a degree, mere mice for the Russian bear to play with.

But don’t let history, geography and the patent evils of socialist communism deflect you from your criticism of USA, I realize some folk find “Yank-bashing” a lazy alternative to objective thinking.

And as for the view of most of Europe, the reason the Ukraine, Georgia, Poland and likely the Baltic States want to be part of both NATO and the US forward defense system is because they view the treacherousness of Russia as a continuing issue and want to be as politically close to USA and its defense potential as they can.

And I don’t blame them.

Yabby

“I support Obama, as I back his judgment.”

Which at the executive level, is completely untested.

He must be doing a good job on those detergent adverts, selling himself as whiter than white (metaphorically speaking)

*He must be doing a good job on those detergent adverts*

Nothing at all to do with any ads. I think that the man has
great critical thinking skills and people skills. He can
examine things from a number of perspectives, he does not
let emotion take over reason, as with McCain. He can see
perspectives that people outside of the US are putting forward,
something that few Americans seem to have the capacity to do.

There were plenty of times in the debates, where Hillary attacked
him like a fishwife. He kept his cool, gave reasoned answers,
he showed great judgement when under pressure.

If you watch a bit of CNN and Bloomberg, which I do, there
have been alot of occasions which show up peoples characters,
for the press leave no stone unturned.

The most dangerous kind of policician is the true believer like
George, who talks to god etc for answers and is a bad judge of
character, with absolutatly no people skills. These guys start
wars.

Palin shows no wisdom, she's a pitt-bull like George and
Americans have paid a huge price for that. If McCain falls
off the perch on day 1 of his presidency, with no economic
skills and no foreign affairs skills, she will not be ready
to take over. Charisma is not enough to be the most powerful
person in world, its too dangerous for the rest of the world.

That is exactly why America is in such a bloody mess right now

Dear Col,

I'm not into "Yank bashing," I'm into major powers
keeping the promises they make. And not reneging,
simply because it suits them politically to do so.
You don't seem to know all the facts involved. I would
recommend your reading the book, "Victims of Yalta,"
by Nikolai Tolstoy. (Who also wrote, "The Minister and
The Massacres.") "Victims of Yalta," is the history
of a cruel betrayal on
the part of the West of millions of helpless people.

I quote from, The Times:

"One of the darkest blots on the British record is the
forcible repatriation of very large numbers of Soviet
citizens at the end of the Second World War. Some
committed suicide rather than return. Many were murdered
the moment they reached Soviet soil. Many more died in
camps in appaling conditions...harrowing reading not only
because of the appalling suffering of the victims but also
because of the cold blindness of the British officials and
politicians who sent them to their fate."

And yes, I guess that does make me politically naive.
I keep forgetting that small fish in the large political
ocean don't count for very much at all.

As for the McCain and Palin team - if they get elected -
it will mean suicide for the American Nation.
McCain's and Palin's pro military stance, will increase
Islamic attacks on America and her supporters.

Barack Obama is the only hope that America currently has.

And strange that you should refer to his colour...

I actually hadn't noticed, I was busy listening to what
he had to say. And it made sense.

It takes more than the president to determine the course of govt; so i don't get the gist of the gab. Wat you talk is a lot of supposing. Let the Americas play out their presidential hoohaas. Theres plenty going on in AU you know;.. Don't meddal in america's affairs , you will be no better than they are.

Golly olly your post makes no sense at all, surely you understand the impacts for us if America sneezes?
And Col ww2 saw America knowingly give parts of Europe to the Russians, to stop England having too much power?
Now in the world of American politics Palin would be the end, most of us expect another country to over take Americas spot as world leader.
In maybe 50 years.
Well if Obama wins it may take that long.
Republicans? maybe 5 years Palin? 5 minutes is a possibility.

Foxy “One of the darkest blots on the British record is the
forcible repatriation of very large numbers of Soviet
citizens at the end of the Second World War.”

That might be so but it is a separate event to the one you were initially whining about, being the occupation of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union and such occupation being beyond the capabilities (and possibly the exhausted will) of the Western Allies to repel.

“Barack Obama is the only hope that America currently has.”

My friends in USA see it differently

but what would they know,

the just live there and vote there

and of course, lack the benefit of your vast insight and appreciation of contemporary history.

Belly “most of us expect another country to over take Americas spot as world leader.
In maybe 50 years. Well if Obama wins it may take that long.

Republicans? maybe 5 years Palin? 5 minutes is a possibility.”

Classic hyperbole Belly, silly post and you know it.

It is strange, looking back over recent US presidencies and who did what

Kennedy (democrat) notorious womanizer and bay of pigs

Johnson (democrat) upped from VP brought about the Vietnam conflict and oversaw the anti-segregation policies.

Trick Dickie Nixon (republican) will never be listed among the finest but he did initiate dialogue with China at a time of high mutual suspicions and thus, could be seen as the instigator of the changes we enjoy today, the fruits of increased trade.

Ford (republican) although never elected on the ticket (he replaced Agnew), he was a remarkable president who determined the limits of power of institutions like CIA. He also oversaw significant domestic legislation including remedial action for the US Recession of 1975, extended facilities for handicapped kids and signed the withdraw from Vietnam which Kennedy/Johnson commenced and of course, signed the Helsinki accords.

Carter (democrat) Iranian hostages, Camp David accords (still awaiting the outcome), armed Afghani guerillas and of course, did not get elected for a second term.

Reagan (republican) elected in the most convincing and absolute landslide against the presidential incumbent, Carter.
Reagan was the colossus, broke the will and threat of the USSR. Changed US economic philosophy, introduced the idea of smaller government.

Bush (republican) liberation of Kuwait and introduced NAFTA.

Clinton (democrat) was the inheritor of the work initiated by Reagan and Bush (largely because the republican vote was split, thanks to Ross Perot) signed off NAFTA. gay rights, HR 4855 (a policy of regime change for Iraq). bombing in the Balkans, Whitewater, was infamous for not having “sex” with anyone.

Bush (republican) followed on from Clinton with a policy of regime change in Iraq and did something about it. Initiated significant education and health priorities, things which democrats are supposed to be the champions of (but Clinton’s (or was it Hilary’s) health initiatives never got off the ground)

it would seem to me, the republicans, despite being the 'conservatives' are more instrumental in instigating real change than the democrats,

The democrats are just better at "talking the talk" and pandering to the emotions.

Dear Col,

You don't seem capable of presenting a "balanced"
and an educated point of view for a Forum such
as this one. Take the Yalta Conference, as an
example, which resulted in many victims.

It is not a separate event from the one you
accuse me of "whining" about in a previous post,
The victims
of Yalta, were a direct result of the
Yalta Conference, and the agreement signed
between the Americans, British, and Russians.

Also, It does not surprise me that your
American friends
think along the same lines as yourself.

Having lived and worked in the United States
for nine and a half years, I too am quite familiar
with American politics. I actually experienced it
first hand.

I won't give you a list of all the achievements of the
Democratic Party here, even though its achievments
in the way of reforms constitute a miracle of
legislative progress.

I will simply state that Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton -
are both qualified to be President and Sarah Palin is not.
Obama did not run on his race, and Clinton did not run on her
gender, but Palin was picked solely because she is a
female. Even many Republicans squirmed at McCain's crassness.

Barack Obama having received the Democratic nomination,
Americans and freedom-loving people everywhere honour his
individual achievment, appreciate his impressive abilities
independent of his race, yet also welcome this breakthrough
for people of colour and oppressed minorities everywhere.

Similarly, as long as Sarah Palin appears more like Al Gore
than Dan Quayle, she might be fine.

You and I obviously will not agree on very much at all.
We see things from a totally different perspective.
And, that's allright as well.

People should rise and fall on their merits, but in this
imperfect world, if they bring their subgroup a little more
pride and standing, that is an added bonus.

Cheers.

I wish, you all could look past your own noses and the media, and see the diversional tactics being played out.It is also easy to become 'in-paled' by the beautiful face of Palin.

Skull&Bones have already decided who is going to be President.

More attention given to Dr.Ron Paul would serve the American people better, for he is FOR the Constitution and not against it, like all the others.

Past and present presidents need to be imprisoned for war crimes and "drugs for arms" smuggling.

Go Ron Paul

American presedential race has turned into TV drama... a mix of The West Wing and Desperate Housewife!It doesnt get much more childish than that!

Go,Obama,go!!

socratease

Good on ya Col! do you really want us to think you believe Johnson started the Vietnam war?
Your Friends in America are in for a disappointment.

Foxy “You don't seem capable of presenting a "balanced"
and an educated point of view for a Forum such
as this one.”

Why?

Because I have dared to disagree with you?

That is a most immature attitude, lacking “balance” and as for “educated”, well, not in a blue fit….

“I will simply state that Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton -
are both qualified to be President and Sarah Palin is not.”

Because you decide to discount a person, despite her having been tested in an executive position and being qualified to stand as candidate for public office,

according to you, she is not “qualified”, presumably lacking “Merit”, to do the role,

Who tested your qualifications to make that statement in the first place?

Certainly no one “Educated” in the democratic processes.

You “simply state”, without analysis, reference or explanation (Stalin style),

Whilst I reviewed some significant events experienced during the tenures of different presidents

But according to you, despite my reference to history, it does not deem me as “capable” to “present” here?

That, Foxy reflects neither a balanced or educated observation, on your part, just arrogance.

“You and I obviously will not agree on very much at all.”

I certainly disagree with your adoption of grand hubris

But I unreservedly, support the process which allows you to express your disagreement with me, it is a shame you fall short of similar standards,

regardless of how naïve, imbalanced or uneducated a view it may be.

Regarding Yalta:

The mass murder of the repatriated populations to USSR was not anticipated by the allies.

But you seem more intent on criticizing and blaming a lack of foresight by the West, whilst avoiding any criticism of the murderous and despicable actions of Stalin and his socialist swill.

“if they bring their subgroup a little more pride and standing,”

One way or another, we all belong to a subgroup of some sort, so I fail to see your point.

Critically, your post is too deficient in “balance” and “education” to make it a worthwhile contribution to this of any other forum.

Dear Col,

You do not present a "balanced" or an educated
point of view. Re-read your own post.
"The Democrats are better at talking the talk and
pandering to the emotions..."

Not true. Give credit where credit is due.
I'll just cite
two examples...
Clinton was responsible for peace, prosperity, record
surpluses, lowest unemployment ever recorded in recent
history, and so on.

President Kennedy was more than the mere womaniser that you
infer. He wasn't given time to carry out his policies very far
but fortunately he lived long enough to set them in motion.
Under his leadership the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty was signed.
He cut back on arms spending to explore the possibilities for
a gradual reduction of tensions, in a word, to make the
great turn towards peace.

As far as the qualifications of Sarah Palin are concerned.
She's a first term governor of a marginal state, lacking any
serious executive experience. When asked whether she'd
travelled "overseas," she replied that she had been to
Hawaii, Canada, and Mexico.

Barack Obama has impeccable credentials.
A Graduate of Columbia University, Harvard Law School, As a
member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama
has made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East,
Central Asia and Africa. His assignments on the Foreign
Policy Committee and Chair of the subcommittee on
European Affairs constitute significant work and awareness in
the foreign policy area.

His other strong point is, he is a scholar of U.S.
Constitutional law. On January 20th, 2009, the person
the US elects will solemnly swear to "preserve, protect,
and defend the Constitution of the USA." With respect to the
two major candidates for President, it could be said that
Barack Obama's resume shows him to be intellectually more
qualified to execute that oath.

I won't discuss the Yalta victims with you . I
will suggest that you read the books I've recommended
by Nikolai Tolstoy.

As for my defending Stalin? You Col, have
no idea what you're talking about. My entire family
suffered from Stalin's regime in ways that you
can't even begin to imagine.

Cheers.

According to a article in today's West, Sarah Palin hired at least
5 of her old schoolmates for top jobs.

They claim that the New York Times reported that Sarah gave the
Directorship of State Division of Agriculture to one classmate,
who cited her childhood love of cows as a qualification for running
the agency. Wow, what a talented lady :)

C'mon Col, this girl has no qualifications or talent to be Prez,
sorry. Fine for running the local cake stall at the girlguides,
but that is about it.

Foxy at last, you have started to lift your game and come up with at least a little substance,

that is in contradiction to the no nonsense, no negotiation, no argument, content in your original post:

“I will simply state that Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton -
are both qualified to be President and Sarah Palin is not.”

Barrack Obamas ‘impeccable credentials’ are as a reviewer / counselor / advisor, not pertinent to actually making and then carrying responsibility for decisions.

It’s a bit like comparing the waiter to a chef, the waiter might suggest an impeccable combination of wine to go with your meal but it is the chef who actually cooks it.

As for “I won't discuss the Yalta victims with you .”

Then you should not have brought them up in the first place.

“You Col, have
no idea what you're talking about. My entire family
suffered from Stalin's regime”

And nor do I care, anymore than I expect you to concern yourself with the details of my family background

but the difference between us,

I do not attempt to inject such details as a source, presumably, for some sort of knee-jerk sympathy response or to "guillotine" discussion, for whatever reason.

So I suggest, you do your best and try to avoid even mentioning it, unless it has significance to the topic (of, in this case, US presidential elections).

Yabby, yep those sort of rumours / insights / exposes get trawled up at every election and are levied at just about every candidate.

Doubtless the American people will decide for themselves, who they will elect and I doubt it will be with any reference to my, yours or (how dare they) Foxy’s opinion.

Foxy,

You say >> “Clinton was responsible for peace, prosperity …”

Maybe but Clinton will be remembered for

1) his appalling lack of judgment regarding Monica Lewinsky,
2) Standing by while the massacres in Rwanda and Bosnia took place

Kennedy was responsible for

1) The bay of pigs fiasco
2) The Cuban missile crisis
3) Escalation of the Vietnam war.

I cannot believe that you could actually suggest that Obama has more experience than Palin. I understand there is an argument to be made over who is more “intelligent” or “wise”, but as to who has the experience in executive decision making, Palin clearly has it, Obama does not.

For all your attempts to downplay Palin’s experience as Mayor and Governor of Alaska, Obama has NOTHING even remotely similar. He is a FIRST TERM senator. That’s it. Being an academic might qualify you to be an advisor, but it does not prepare you to hold political office. And the suggestion that Obama is more widely travelled is simply irrelevant.

You say >> it will mean suicide for the American Nation. …Palin's pro military stance, will increase Islamic attacks ...”

WHAT?? YOU SAID WHAT??

I wonder how it is you came to this conclusion? Have you forgotten that 9/11 occurred in September 2001? Before ANY of the coalition attacks. Islamic attacks will not ever defeat America.

Pro-military stance? WTF does that mean, Pro-Military? The president is Commander in Chief of the military. Is there an anti-military candidate for president?

McCain has this arcane idea that if you send troops into battle you should actually support them and ensure that they have every possibility of successfully carrying out the tasks you set them. He believes that the current nonsense about “exit strategies” is actually damaging to the coalition soldiers who are fighting, and it also provides hope to the enemy, prolonging the conflict.

As for Yalta, I wonder what exactly you think Churchill and Roosevelt gave up? Stalin pretty much kept all the territory he captured from the Germans. Are you suggesting that Stalin would have given some of it back?

*Doubtless the American people will decide for themselves, who they will elect and I doubt it will be with any reference to my, yours or (how dare they) Foxy’s opinion.*

Oh absolutaly, we simply express our opinion on Online Opinion.

Col, you know from my previous posts, that I am for smaller Govt,
private enterprise, freedom of the individual etc, but I think that
in the US, the republicans take things to the extremes, the
result being for instance, the disaster that is Hurricane Wall St
right now. There are huge global economic implications from all
this and what has been going on with all this financial engineering
without any regulation, is little more then corporate robbery
with impunity, dressed up politically as freedom.

Now these mega losses are being socialised, so that the average
American taxpayer will be lumbered with the bill, for generations
to come.

I certainly don't see American politics as left-right, in the
traditional sense. America is in one hell of a financial mess
right now and its going to take a great deal of wisdom to solve
it.

There are some great thinkers like Buffett and Gates, who admire
Obama, they are not exactly socialists. Buffett is actually one
of Obama's economic advisors, not a silly choice, for he has
been one of the few lone voices to at least be honest about the
scandals of Wall St and the potential effect on America.

At a time like this, America needs good judgment, especially
economically. McCain is frankly not interested in economics and
Palin has no global economic skills.

Americans might well select those two, but then IMHO they will pay
a huge price, as they have with voting for Dubya, who has taken
them to the edge of the cliff in the first place. Perhaps they
need more pain to learn the hard way, so be it.

Being a typical smart arse, if that happens, I will be pointing that
out and rubbing it in :)

Dear Col,

You consistantly see things only
from your own point of view. You try to turn
the tables but I'm afraid it's not going to work
as far as I'm concerned.

I'm going to correct a few impressions
that you're trying to validate.

Firstly, Obama is more than just "an advisor,"
as you put it. He's introduced several initiatives
bearing his name: "Lugar-Obama," which expanded the
Nunn-Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to
conventional weapons, and the "Coburn-Obama Transparency
Act," which authorized the establishment of www.USAspending.gov...
He sponsored legislation requiring nuclear plant owners to
notify state and local authorities of radioactive leaks.
And there's more ...

Let's not imply Obama's track record is insignificant. These
bills - especially as they relate to foreign policy and
veteran's affairs - are valuable contributions to the USA.

Hillary Clinton - came of age during a time of tumultuous
social and political change in America.
Wife, mother, lawyer, advocate, and international icon,
she has lived through America's great political wars, from
Watergate to Whitewater.

I'm sure Ms Palin has certain qualities that McCain
found attractive. But they are yet to be proven.

Finally, you accuse me of trying to get sympathy from you,
when I was merely replying to your accusation that I
was a defender of Stalin. That's low.
I am realistic enough to realize that getting any
sympathy from a person who suggested on one of my other
threads that a flag for refugees should be a "dunny
surrounded by razor wire," would be a waste of time.

As for my bringing up Yalta. Again, that was in response to
your claim that the US stood against communism during the
Second World War, when in fact the US and Stalin initially
stood together. The US did not enter the Second World War
until December 1941.

I directed you to read Nikolai Tolstoy's books to
get the accurate picture for yourself.

I'm beginning to understand why you continually transfer
you aggressions onto others, when they merely respond
to your statements.

Your beloved Thatcher summed it up:

"Ego, is God's gift to little men.

Foxy “You consistantly see things only
from your own point of view.”

Said the pot to the kettle,

“Let's not imply Obama's track record is insignificant.”

Let’s not imply Sarah Palins track record is insignificant.

“Hillary Clinton”

Hilary Clinton, who spat the dummy on going second the democrats nomination ticket?

“"Ego, is God's gift to little men.”

It would appear to have some relevance for “little women” too

Re “That's low.”
almost as low as suggesting to someone

“You don't seem capable of presenting a "balanced"
and an educated point of view for a Forum such as this one.”

“I am realistic enough to realize that getting any
sympathy . . . should be a "dunny
surrounded by razor wire,"”

I said then and repeat now

“I am sure we can all find irony in that and no nasty "history" at all.”

And what has “sympathy” got to do with anything?

“I’m beginning to understand why you continually transfer
you aggressions onto others, when they merely respond
to your statements.”

Being told I lack the correct “view for a Forum such as this one”

Goes well beyond “respond to statements”

Recalling your “I will simply state that Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton -
are both qualified to be President and Sarah Palin is not.”

You then attack my right to post, despite my summary (word limited) history of presidential activity, says a hell of a lot about your “education” and “balance”.

If anyone is experiencing “aggressions” it is you.

And regarding freedom of speech, when anyone questions another persons (mine or someone else’s) right to express their personal view, I will treat them and their hubris with the contempt it deserves.

Finally “Ego, is God's gift to little men.”

Is attributed to president Harry Truman (democrat) not our dearest Margaret.

Truman also said “A leader in the Democratic Party is a boss, in the Republican Party he is a leader.”

I think we all, including USA, deserve “leadership”, not “bossiness”.

Although, your attitude might indicate otherwise.

Dear Col,

I have to admit when I've been rightly
chastised.

I bow to your superior intellect and arguments Sir.

You are not the neanderthal that I thought
you to be.

On the contrary. You are a man of wit and character.

You're absolutely correct in pointing out
that this entire misunderstanding was my fault.

I have learned my lesson.

From now on I will not dare to enter into
any further discussions with someone of your
calibre.

Foxy, the sarcasm becomes you but

I have always considered you, along with everyone else, free to post or decline from posting as you see fit.

It remains a sad reflection on you that you seem incapable of reciprocating that basic value.

In which case, your decision to withdraw from comment is probably the best and most creative thing you could possibly do.

Doubtless, Sarah Palin holds to a higher standard than where you have set your personal "bar", lets face it, she has achieved more in a "tested" position than you or your preferred nominee.

Dear Foxy

You have presented all your posts with balance, reason and a courtesy way beyond any that Col extends to you.

Just consider this:

If Palin was a Democratic, you can well imagine the vitriol that would drip from Col's poison pen. He does not argue from any honest ideology; he argues to demoralise. Col is incapable of extending respect to others, even though he demands it for himself. Remember he takes any difference of opinion as a personal slight and therefore, feels justified in a self-indulgent rant against anyone - even people as inoffensive and considerate as yourself.

Col, just so you know - I am casting personal aspersions on your character and I am completely justified.

I've always found that a reliable indicator of someone's character is the company they keep. Col Rouge and Porkycrap have apparently sought each out in real life, after initially 'meeting' here at OLO.

Need I say more?

You and your mates are like little barking dogs, safe at home behind your computer. Its so pathetic. Calling names, is that really the best you can do CJ? I would expect this type of behaviour from pubescent girls. What kind of man are you? Same goes for Rainier and Dickie.

Seriously, have you actually contributed to a discussion lately that wasn't PURELY flaming? Continually whining and sniping is not a good look for a bloke.

Why don't you grow up?

PaulL please put me in the factelle, Foxy and C J Morgan camp on this subject.
You make me very happy I belong in a different paddock than you..
Why re write factelle post in every word it is spot on no need for the extreme rudeness to one of our best mannered posters.
Please be here the day the results of Americas election come down.

Belly,

Maybe you know that CJ and his mates Dickie and Rainier have decided they're going to devote a couple of discussion topics to slagging off Col. Now I clashed with Col before but the infantile, even at times racist behaviour, of these idiots is just incredible. Now it seems CJ wants a third general discussion topic where he can poke tongues at Col. So what extreme rudeness are you talking about, because there seems to be an awful lot of it about.

As for the results on election day. I really don't care that much. I'm pretty sure whoever wins will disappoint the socialists. I really don't think Obama's going to be the man all you progressives hope, even if he wins.

Nice to see I'm still getting up the little wingnut's nose, even when I'm not talking to him.

Paul.L: << safe at home behind your computer >>

At least it's my computer and not the boss's, unlike the one you use predominantly during work hours to spout your anonymous wingnut diatribes.

<< have you actually contributed to a discussion lately that wasn't PURELY flaming? >>

Sure - look at my posting history. I could ask you similarly if you'd made a comment lately that didn't mention pubescent or prepubescent girls.

Col brings it on himself, but I'm sure he's pleased to know that he's got Paul.L to back him up - he obviously doesn't have many friends.

However, I'm not so sure that dickie would regard herself as one of my "mates".

Grow up yourself, Paul - and mind your own business.

Dear Fractelle, CJ, Belly,

Thank you for your kind words,
and support.

I am so sorry that you got
involved in this matter.

However, I must bear a great deal of the
responsibility. I should have chosen my
words far more carefully, and above all
I should not have reacted.

I've got a lot to learn when it comes to
dealing with all sorts of opinions on a
public Forum such as this one.

I'm going to have to learn
not to take things personally.

However, I don't want anyone to continue
to argue over something that has been
given more attention that it deserves.

I've learned a good lesson out of
all this. Let's move on.

I do apologise to both Col, and Paul.
I was wrong to be so arrogant.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
And I admit that it is the wide variety of
opinions that attracted me to this Forum
in the first place.

So I should practice what I believe in.

Foxy apology accepted.

I repeat, “I have always considered you, along with everyone else, free to post or decline from posting as you see fit.” And of course to post your heart felt view and opinions.

But that is a position which I expect everyone to reciprocate toward myself and others whose views may differ from your own.

I do, sincerely look forward to your resumption of posting.










Fractelle “Col, just so you know - I am casting personal aspersions on your character and I am completely justified.”

You are entitled to post whatever dross flows forth from your enfeebled mind.

However, I would be mildly interested, just in passing, how you can actually “justify” the “I am completely justified” bit,

I look forward to reading your “justification” and tearing a new orifice in it.

But before you write anything, please bear in mind, I am entitled, in the pursuit of “aspersion” equality, to respond in kind.

CJ,

I’m back at UNI so my computer is my own. I don't know where it was you got the idea that you know anything about me, but you should always remember the old saying “Its always better to sit quietly and have people think you’re stupid than to open your mouth and prove them correct.” You seem to be proving it an awful lot lately.

He says >> Sure - look at my posting history. I could ask you similarly if you'd made a comment lately that didn't mention pubescent or prepubescent girls.

I looked at your posting history, 6 of you last 10 posts have solely consisted of pathetic personal attacks. Mostly name calling. And it seems you’re the one who cannot have a discussion that doesn’t mention pubescent girls (go through the history, I dare you). Seems you have a real problem there.

It’s my business when you and your idiot mates decide that you need 3 threads to attack someone. They’re all public anyway so I’ll call you on your childish behaviour whenever I come across it.

I see you have now taken to twisting the screen names of your pet hates. Very grown up. Seriously, are you a pubescent girl or what?

Foxy

You did not owe Col an apology. You were manipulated by a bully.

Col

As you take personal offense even if someone gives the appearance of having the audacity to disagree with you, I fully expect more of your venom directed my way.

As I have the courage of my convictions, I say:

BRING IT ON.

Fractelle “You were manipulated by a bully.”

I guess I have superhuman powers,

If I can manipulate anyone at the keypad of a computer somewhere else on the internet.

I have always been intrigued, how anyone can “bully” when there is neither capacity nor opportunity for intimidation or retribution, maybe you could explain it to me one day.

If I could manipulate what people type into computers, I would be more gainfully employed “manipulating” them to transfer lots of money into my personal superfund, rather than responding to people here.

Contrary to yourself, I believe Foxy to be above “manipulation” by me (and hopefully anyone else).

That she debates with passion and believes in what she types is to her credit.

I claim no credit for my passion but just like Foxy, I do believe in most of what I type (interjected with a few throwaway lines) and have equal right to post it here, regardless of your personal assessment of me.

“As you take personal offense even if someone gives the appearance of having the audacity to disagree with you, I fully expect more of your venom directed my way.”

You do so overrate your significance in the scheme of things. And when I go back over your posts, I see an almost bottomless (maybe fathomless is a better term) capacity for extreme judgmental ad homines

“As I have the courage of my convictions, I say:

BRING IT ON.”

As and when but

not to be hurried and

never, ever on your command.

Have you guys forgotten to take your happy pills or something?

Foxy- You have nothing to apologize for. You are always respectful and present your opinions with compassion and kindness.

Fractelle- Put simply- you are a class act.

CJMorgan- well, you are CJ Morgan. You encapuslate the good, the bad and the ugly.

Paul - You don't need to stoop so low to make a point. You are quite capable of articulating your opinions with intellect and balance.

Col - You stated : "You are entitled to post whatever dross flows forth from your enfeebled mind." You probably think you are being quite clever and witty- well you have really advertised your true colors and it is not pretty. Shame on you.

Sarah Palin - What can you say about someone who only a few short weeks ago did not even know what the VP does- Doh!

Belly- Great topic though!!

I'm not biting, Pauly-poo. Go and pick a fight with someone else.

Better still, go back to your Engineering studies or write some interminable drivel about how wonderful America is.

A Pig with Lipstick in the White House!

Yeah,that's just about right.Typically American!

Hopw the world must be laughing...especially Osama Bin ladin and the entire Al Quaida hierarchy.They're loving it.

socratease

Even the thought a pig with lipstick may well follow a monkey into the white house does not make me laugh.
It frightens me.
However it will not happen, without some insane act Obama is home free.