Dear Snout
your topic is most important and raises vital and timely issues!

Secularism for example is just as much an 'ism' as the rest. It equally marginalizes Christians and Muslims, but probably less so for Buddhists and Hindus.

There are 3 basic approaches.

1/ Open slather..
each man doing what is right in his own eyes (Judges 20:21) which will inevitably result is absolute chaos such as we are seeing now in Iraq.

2/ Strict Secularism.
Total separation of Church/Religion and State.
Which communicates the unspoken message that we are nothing more than 'organisms' (to quote a medical text book)in a meaningless universe where it does not ultimately matter squat what we do.

3/ Cultural Prevalence.
Where the nation has a basic cultural glue which all are aware of holding it together. Once this is recognized, all sub culturess can then know their place relative to the main. Not in an 'inferior' manner, but in position/peck order.. however u want to put it.(one of those inescapable things in life)

How would "3" translate into Education ? Simple. We can inculcate agreed values at every level. This can include our Judao Christian heritage, but not in an 'enforced belief' manner more in a 'values' way. (which is impossible)it should also include our broad Western History and our place in it.

If the only message Secularism can send to our emerging youth is:

"The only thing you can believe with confidence is that there is nothing absolute to believe in"

-Then we will reap a generation of alienated, lonely, violent, uncaring members of a clockwork orange nihilistic society that looks after number ONE.

Forunately, we are FINALLY seeing the signs of the total death of Multiculturalism in the Australian Article yesterday. "Multiculturalism is a dirty word"

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20697488-601,00.html

Now we need to advance to the next step of embracing our true culture, re-captureing the best of the 50s, and rejecting the worst,
and synthesizing it into a vibrant new integrated and assimilated Australia.
The 60s ? just consign them to the pit of hell where they belong. (along with Bratz dolls) :)

Apoligies to Snout... kinda off topic.

Dear Savior68

I'm most concerned that you have headed in the direction of a Mosque.
Could you elaborate a little please ?

You mentioned 12 months in 'a' church....then a mosque.
Which church ?

Can I ask.. have you made the effort to study the scriptures yourself..and sought to meet the Living Christ in the Gospels and Letters of the Apostles ? Have you considered the conversion of Paul?

Please look closely at the man Mohammed, and not at the sugar coated screen saver portrait you are given by Islamic web sites and at Mosques.

Dig..dig... claw away the outer shell of 'respectability' which Muslims have built up around this man they revere as "The best of mankind" and ask how the 'best' can have 11 or more wives, can cut off the hands and feet of thieves, and poke their eyes out with hot irons and leave them to die slowly... ask ask ask...

Ask how the best of mankind can take as wife (against his own laws) a woman who's father he has had killed and husband he has just decapitated (Kinana at Khaiber).. and if you believe the earliest Islamic biographical source 'Sirat Rasul'(Ibn Ishaq)...had also tortured. These are hard 'spade a spade' questions which must be faced honestly. You will be told by some Imams that Ishaq is 'a liar' as claimed by another early historian 'Malik'...but I refer you to a discusion of 'sources' in Muir, which seems very balanced and honest.
Read his treatment of Ibn Ishaq and various others.

http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Books/Muir/Life1/chapter1.htm

You will be told also that the above site is 'propoganda' etc..but if you read very carefully, you will see the purity of motivation of the scholar Muir. He even claims the Quran is very well preserved as a document.

but then.. compare.. contrast.. with the Lord Jesus. I make no apology for stating it like this. A verses B... its valid and can make the difference to your own eternal destiny.

yes multiculturalism has become a dirty word, good ole paul keating
if people come to australia they should accept that as otherwise why did they leave their own country in the first place, for a better way of life.

Their are values within this culture of being able to do as you would like, speak as you like and so on but some of those that come here and that have been here for many years have taken no notice and have just prefered to stay in their old ways.

Change is for us the people to make and if we do not stand up then who will do it.

Australian Peoples Party

email:swulrich@bigpond.net.au

This is a choice
like the old saying you can take a horse to water but cannot make him drink.

tapp

Get your facts straight, multiculturalism was introduced by Malcolm Fraser.

It has served us well until the wedge politics of our "liberal" govt. saw it as a way to divide the nation.

If you want to start a new political party the least you can do is understand our history.

I want to add some minority points.

These views are my own:

In answer to Snout, I think that individual sovereignty is non-negotiable. This anchors us as individuals. Growth is form there.

savior's points have merit, as we see old Aussie fade away, replaced by a contrite 'other'.

mickijo's socialist utopia deserves to fail as a foistered experiment. Particularly in light of the self-appointed shadow government continually howling and enforcing its machinations.

I hope we never see reverse racism.

Rainers right, he sees the complaints against what we have; but they want it for their own.

I hope that those who don’t want to be grafted onto society, won’t be squeezed away from Gals Country.

Boaz, your on yer own (too long)

i like to tapp to the song of a different tune (a God one), but i would prefer to be Aussie valued.

So there you go, i used the above to summarize what i look forward too, and hope Snout finds my responses worthy of the post.

Get your facts straight, multiculturalism was introduced by Malcolm Fraser.

It has served us well until the wedge politics of our "liberal" govt. saw it as a way to divide the nation.

If you want to start a new political party the least you can do is understand our history.

Oh well it seems that i was wrong about that you wouldnt see that from labor /liberal or the others.
It had seemed that the keating labor government had opened the floodgates when they where in.
Oh and about history
one would notice that when capt philip came to australia he had to fight the aboriginals for the place just like war and the british won.
Hence why is it that we have to give land rights native title when it is obvious.
If this is not what happens to america,europe,england and lets keep going do we give it all back to the chimps or unless you are god fearing, palistians/jewish,isrealis
please disregard spelling that is not what it is about.
to divide the nation is easy look here on cracker the papers easy.

Also one would like to go forward than backwards like we are doing now