Yes many shed tears some cry still but what could we do?
If that whale died at sea we would not even know, if the dead one washed up on the south coast is its mum who cried for her?
To even think of imprisoning the poor thing, feeding it and saving it for a life in captivity is truly cruel.
No training to eat krill, no trip south no whale skills to live are we interfering with nature?
Surely once it became clear we could not reunite it with mum, or another pod surely we waited too long to end its pain?

There was a chance to TRY and do something, we didn't.

We failed, and we are hypocrites. We gave the pro-whalers a platter of propaganda to use against us.

We've got babies from dead mothers of varying species here....they're all doing fine. Takes time and effort....oh, and yeah, money.

Animals are creatures of instinct. If you mother them COMPLETELY they'll get to a point of not being able to be rehabilitated into the wild, but distance yourself to a point and instinct kicks in. Every time.

Whales are social animals, don't underestimate their ability to reintegrate into another pod.

Dear Belly,

I believe that they did everything they
possibly could, consulting all sorts of
experts in the hope of saving the baby
whale. They even flew out specialists
from Marine World.

However, it was not to be. And from what
I could gather, it was put down as
humanely as possible, as soon as they
were told that the whale could not be
saved.

We all felt remorse at the death of this
beautiful creature, but I don't think
that anyone can be blamed for its demise.
Everything was done that could possibly
be done.

Foxy

Sorry but you were misinformed. They did nothing. A Dr even flew in from the US. The silly @ said they didnt even know what milk to give a baby whale? Huh! its on the net!
Its a VERY simly formular that can be made up within minutes from your local supermarket.

Other baby whales have been saved on it in US At least they had a go! We just took back and watched it die.
There were people they who wanted to go out to it and try to feed it. People with experience. They were stopped WHY ?
I will tell you why- because the NSW Government didnt want to pay the bill to keep it alive and transport it if it survived.

They physically stopped several from trying to feed it. These people were stunned and some were crying. To be so close but stopped and made to watch it suffer must have been hard.

Its SHAMEFUL.

Whats happended to the give it a go Aussie spirit.

We could have at least let these people who have do ne it before feed it and TRY.
iT WAS EITHER GOING TO SUCK OR IT WASNT. Its not rocket Science. Shame on this Government.

They couldnt organise a raffle and blocked others who knew what they were doing.

They couldnt organise a raffle and blocked others who knew what they were doing.
PALE,
That's standard procedure in Australia & in left vs right politics as well.

Dear PALE&IF,

Thank you for setting me straight.

I guess we were all misinformed.

How tragic that this animal died,
when it could have been saved.

Hi,
After spending a lot of time overseas, this tragedy clearly shows again our Australian weakness. That is, that people are scared to death to take responsibilities. As if everyone of us is afraid to be penalised or sued for our doing.
This baby whale had to die because non of you officials was willing to take a risk!
Don't know the formula to mix milk for this poor bugga, what crap.
We didn't need a reason or formula to help to invade Iraq, but are unable to at least try to help this poor creature.
To all those in power, you could have at least tried to do the almost impossible, so as you failed and showed your incompetence please quit your jobs, and give it to ordinary people, whome you have denied the access to this whale. Without an university or tafe degree, they know so much more than you,
reg. m2catter

I really like whales, particularly baby ones... but..

This was an abandoned juvenile wild animal. It happens all the time for various reasons - the calf can't keep up, is a runt, is susceptible to disease etc etc. They get separated from the herd and they die. It's a classic manifestation of natural selection.

This one stumbled into middle-class Pittwater. If it happened out in the ocean where it usually does, there would be no need for human intervention. As it happened, the fact that the poor creature's plight became the object of human attention meant that it was euthanased rather than suffering any more miserable a death.

This was just another emotional diversion of the kind that many people seem to need these days. Clearly, it was the government, or big business, or some malevolent human force that was responsible, rather than the dumb and brutal working of nature.

Not to mention that this was at Pittwater, of all places. Think of the property values!

You people really should get your priorities right :P

Foxy your first post was spot on.
Please do not let emotional views turn your head.
Feeding the whale was if allowed was just a start.
It would need a mother or other whales to take it south.
Learning to sing and feed just for a start.
Some of those wet cheeks came from national parks and wildlife people no one wanted to kill it.
Few are aware those same people have put such whales to sleep much quicker if on a remote beach.
It is uncharitable and wrong to blame the shambolic NSW government for this event.
And as they are the living dead in any case unneeded.
We acted cruelly in letting the poor little bugger suffer so long.

Foxy

Fair Lady!
So sorry to drop the truth on you like that but this was just a straight out case of NO organization what so ever.

Their rep went on air and made a statement that nobody knew what to feed baby whales... for god sake.!


The real crime here is that they stopped others who did know what they were doing.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24211714-952,00.html

You won’t fund too much at the movement as the silly buggers go into damage control. However those who saved a baby whale on the same formula won’t let it drop.

“ Nor should they.” I assume you would understand that Animal Welfare is our industry and we would know far more than poor belly that’s doing a flip because he raised this in the first place.
This stupid Government = which is parks and wildlife etc... Haven’t got a clue.

We spoke with several people who had the formula and we in tears.
One bloke was going to try to feed Colin with his feeder he made and the formula that has worked before.
They refused anybody to even TRY!!

Of course he had to be put down most probably after FIVE DAYS the idiots!

If they KNEW they were not going to allow anybody to feed him his formula then he should have been put down in the first place on day one.

This is another example of a totally useless bloody Government at both State Federal Level.

We used to pride ourselves as “having a go-“ now we can say our Government forced us to watch something that possibly could have been saved for five days suffer.

We could have tried. Who knows he probably could have made it- "thers have."

Perhaps this might help the next Colin Foxy - I hope so.

Try not to upset yourself dear lady and take heart in knowing nobody is going to let this go. The fight will contiune for justice for Colin and for those idiots reasonsible worrying about their dam insurance and for stopping others from feeding the formular.
Love your Ghost thread .

For the life of me I cant understand all the fuss about this. There was 300 comments on one forum I was reading and many of them expressed they literally cried.

I cant imagine so many of these people were vegetarians. I cant imagine this many people care as much about the thousands of dogs and cats put down each year. I don't see such a river of tears for the starving and diseased humans who die every day.

The manatee is endangered, with numbers much smaller than the whale, and nobody seems half as interested in saving it. Why? Because it's ugly.

I think we missed a significant opportunity. In a multi-cultural society that we always told we are, we should embrace other cultures with verve. We could have gained an insight into Japanese or Norwegian culture by holding a community BBQ down on the Pittwater.

Colin burgers all round. And maybe some veal for the less enlightened.

I didn't want the poor little one to die. It was very sad, but it was even sadder seeing the poor baby whale suffering.

While I will run a mile before entering into any debate with PALE.
It is worth noting Colin was in fact Collete a female.
It is true however in America such a whale was saved.
But did it re enter its own world?
Or is it another prisoner for life?
I look else ware for animal welfare PALE and do not share your self assurance, in fact doubt you fully understand the subject.
Tongue in cheek may I lay more sins at the feet of both governments??
The drought, less gold at the Olympics and the poor form of my NRL team the dragons, add those to your list please PALE.

*There was 300 comments on one forum I was reading and many of them expressed they literally cried.*

Well you have the bambi factor that comes into play here. Most
city people are out of touch with nature and forget that it happens
every day out there in the real world. So if its on their tv
screens, its a drama, otherwise its out of sight is out of mind.

So they did the right thing, put the baby whale out of its suffering.
That is evolution in action for you. The fittest survive.

For people like Gertrude, who wears her heart on her sleeve,
best I send her an orphan pet lamb to keep her occupied :)

*So they did the right thing, put the baby whale out of its suffering.*
"FIVE" DAYS LATER.

That was after stopping people who have saved another one from feeding it.
Remember the idiots said nobody knew what to feed it.
I think that speaks for itself! It should have either been put down DAY ONE- or they should have allowed those who knew more to have a go!

This was yet another example of governments ingnorance- which is shadowed only by their arrogance.

Fact is USA can not believe Aussies didnt even try.

If they couldnt handle this God help the people when its somthing that effects them- Such as an attack on our waters.

T

Sigh !, such a waste of paper printing all of the sob story.
Where were the Greens by the way? No photo opportunities?

The right thing to do was either to kill it day one and use the meat or leave it alone to die and stink up somewhere in Pittwater.

The right thing to do was to try to match it up with a passing pod, which was tried more than once = a reason NOT to put it down straight away.

As sad as it is, it is nature. At least, I hope it is. Lets hope that the reason was not a yacht trying to get close up for a look that lured the calf away from its mother. Cant imagine anyone owning up if this is what happened (even if accidental). Its certainly a risk with other animals, so no doubt a possibility.

Hi all
For probably the first time in living memory, I agree with Yabby here; we are dealing with the "Bambi" factor (otherwise known as "speciesism"). Although this was a terribly sad situation, you've gotta wonder how many of those people crying on the beach went home and had some chicken or pork or eggs from an intensive farming operation, or beef or lamb and spared a thought for the hideous lives and deaths of billions of farmed animals every day.

PALE, it is not stated anywhere in that article that anyone knew what formula this calf needed, although one would expect that the Japanese, after all their "scientific research" should have been able to provide that information. It was pointed out that "Colette" would have needed massive amounts of krill, which would have had to be sourced from the Antarctic though. Also, there has been one whale calf saved in the US, but it was a different species, a "Grey Whale", not a humpback.

And as others have pointed out - had she been saved, would she have been condemned to a life in captivity? Remember Keiko; if there is a whale over whom tears should be shed it was Keiko.

Nicky

Well said Nicky. My only point of difference would be that I agree with Yabby somewhat more frequently than you do :)

Nicky
I do not know what article you are refering to but its common knowledge the formular was on the net- All while the authorties claimed no such formular exisisted.
Its also common koowledge that people with far more experience including a Dr flew into Australia wanting to at least TRY to feed it.
Their argument was that they were blocked from even trying.

They then argued that if they were to be blocked then at least put it down.
We didnt even allow them to try.
As far as it livng a life in sea world or wherever- there is no evidence that once it was stronger they would not have been able to link it up with another group of whales.
My point is clear. Why allow it to suffer for five full days if they knew they would not allow the experts who knew far more than us to try.
Whats hapended to the Aussie spirit of giving it a go.

Instead we stood back and did nothing for five longs days.
Five days Nicky! .
Shameful

Yabby
Better to wear a heart on the sleeve than to not have a heart bTW.
Tell me are you the damage control for the gov and Industry.?

I mean honestly you have been posting for years supporting the barbaric trade such as live animal exports and another thing to do with Government stuff ups and cruelty to animals.

Not one word about the post Nicky put up about China tossing live lambs to the lions to entertain its people ? Instead you opended a post saying well done China.

Your always around to defend the Government- either one for the industry.

Maybe your on the live animal exporters pay role or something.

Have you ever looked for a company link Nicky to whale hunting and certain companies.
Might be worth a look. Good point Nicky on Japan.

Yup! you would think they would have all the scienfitic answers to help a baby whale.
I mean after spending so much time 'studying' them.

Gertrude, your last post highlights why I seldom bother even to
respond to your posts these days. De Bono was right. Rational
arguments simply don't matter to many, as emotive instincts domimate.
So it is rather pointless even discussing things.

Of course I defend the live trade. As the only Western Australian
farmer on OLO, who understands the importance of the trade to
WA agriculture, which covers a third of Australia, somebody has
to point out the many fallacies, distortions and outright lies put
up by the animal rights movement.

At the same time I have always promoted the concept of building more
slaughter capacity in this State. Anyone is free to go ahead and
do it. It is not unreasonable for WA farmers to at least expect
"average" Australian prices for their livestock. Not 50% below
average, just average.

If that market is then distorted for whatever reasons, be it
political, be it corruption, be it whatever, WA farmers, being
global players in agriculture, will taken action to ensure their
survival and that of their farms. Fair enough and I defend their
right to do that.

I remind you that it was union thuggery that largely closed down
cattle plants in the NW. That those cattle are now exported to
Indonesia, just across the pond, makes perfect sense. As we can
show with modern shipping, the cattle do pretty well on that
journey, which takes around 4 days or so. That is little more
then they spend on some cattle trucks and saleyards in Australia.

But these rational arguments are clearly beyond you. I must be
paid by the industry or something similar. Gertrude, your vivid
imagination and jump to conspiracy theories would be best used on
the ghost thread, where likeminded individuals can agree with you :)

Yabby

*If* that market is then distorted for whatever reasons, be it
Political, be it corruption, be it whatever,

What do mean if. You know darn well it is.

*I remind you that it was union thuggery that largely closed down
Cattle plants in the NW*.


Then why don’t you and your lot “say it loudly." Why don’t you all stand up to the Government and the live export shipping agents- Too scared that’s why. Quietly mostly farmers disagree with live exports but quietly isn’t good enough.

*That those cattle are now exported to Indonesia, just across the pond, makes perfect sense...


How does it make perfect sense for our tax payer’s dollars to be spent building plants in another country? Do not bother to tell me that grants are not given to these companies so they can err, help with infrastructure to improve Animal Welfare.

Why should we supply employment for overseas and the expense of 'our' country towns.

How they are treated it’s well documented. Even the Muslims themselves have asked for more plants to be reopened in Australia sighting animal cruelty.



*At the same time I have always promoted the concept of building more
Slaughter capacity in this State...


How have you promoted It.? Did you even bother to meet with Muslim People? You were asked.

"They DONT TRUST the Government either for your information!

Shows you they are not that stupid after all ah

The only request they made was to meet with farmers at grass roots levels but that’s impossible with the corruption of MLA and FF.

Do you know how many Malaysian investors have contacted WA FF and PA.? "Plenty."
Do you know what they told them they wanted to do?

To invest in Abattoirs in WA. That’s right but you guys never heard one word about it. No of course not.

Your so called reps are NOT looking after the farmers but instead the industry of the live shipping agents.

Your reps are your enemies but your lot are too stupid to see it- or lazy a or scared to.

Yabby, you will support any argument for animal cruelty if there is a quid in it, and you know it. Just as shipping cattle "across the pond", as you put it gives those farmers a quid, regardless of what happens to the animals in Indonesia (or the Philippines, or China)

Speaking of China, PALE is quite right. By your silence (or poor taste frivolity) on that thread you are making a clear statement that what the Chinese do to animals is just fine with you.

PALE, I think I got that information from the ABC; I can't remember for sure now. But it's possible that, if there was such a formula it may have done more harm than good in terms of prolonging the agony of the humpback calf. Who knows for sure? I DO know that I would have hated her to spend her lifetime in captivity though.

Nicky

*Yabby, you will support any argument for animal cruelty if there is a quid in it, and you know it.*

Bollocks. Farmers rely on qualified academics and industry people
to make informed judgements, not on fanatical vegans, who have
a problem wearing leather shoes. Your philosophy is the problem,
but that is your problem, not our problem. Sending whole agricultural
industries bankrupt to suit your vegan agenda is not going to happen,
sorry.

*Speaking of China, PALE is quite right. By your silence (or poor taste frivolity) on that thread*

Ahem, my thread was a completely different topic, different
issue. It had nothing at all to do with animal welfare in China.

I remind you that there is animal cruelty in Australia. The
Olympics were also held in Australia. Should we not have held
our Olympics here, because there is cruelty here? Do you girls
have any brains at all, anywhere?

Yabby dearest
Nicky’s thread -Why fur is never cool- was the thread I was speaking of.

Here was your big chance. That was a good opportunity for you to say oh dear me as a sheep farmer I was “horrified” to hear of baby lambs being tossed live to feed lions for peoples amusement.

I am so disturbed by this Nicky allow me to help you by starting a petition and asking all the farmers to sign it.

We don’t always agree on everything with you Nicky but you are correct about this.
This is horrible. Good on you for bringing this to the public’s attention. As a sheep farmer I” thank you.”

I will write to Kevin Rudd and ask him next time he is speaking Mandarin to raise this barbaric treatment of sheep and lambs.

Yabby Said

Bollocks. Farmers rely on qualified academics and industry people
To make informed judgments,

Pale comments

Hilarious Nicky, Mr. Tony Burke the MINISTER just completed his first little tour as = Wait for it. The new kid on the block.

Oh Guess what Nicky he actually visited a farm. Can you imagine that!

He visted old friends that he hadnt seen for ten years- how lovely .

They met him in the middle of a padock with a bottle of bubbly- (dusty business this industry of sending animals off alive to have their eyes pulled out with bare hands then bash and bash them into a run.)

Tony Burke mentioned PETA in America and called them extremists.

He didnt tell the public about the many Australian Groups such as the RSPCA and dozens of others.
Clearly that was to mislead the public- But wait then again it is possible that Tony Burke has never heard of the RSPCA or PAACT or the hundreds of others.

He could have also missed the five segmants on 60 minutes and the others such as the 7,30 report. Poor chap.

Maybe Kevin kept him locked up while he plotted his pre election pitch with Kerry.

Excellent comment, PALE. I think there is a petition about the Chinese fur industry which I promised to find but haven't managed yet. By all means start one about Chinese zoos too. Yabby, this is about the some of the most egregious cruelty the world has come across, but of course that wouldn't matter to you.

Nicky

Ah well, we have forgotten the baby whale, we now see the emotional response that we first talked about run riot.
Joe average is unlikely to listen to such, like it or not animal welfare is no better for it.
I find myself agreeing with yabby far more often than some in this debate, maybe Joe average does too.

*Here was your big chance.*

My big chance?. Hehe, you really do have a screw loose.

Yabby

I think we have been there and done this before- Havent We?

I pointed out to you some time ago that the only person you seem to have convinced on this forum is Belly:)

You have got addmitt its a total crack up. ie.=

*I remind you that it was union thuggery that largely closed down
cattle plants in the NW. ...

Then this from Belly:)
I find myself agreeing with yabby far more often ....

And this - from Yabby
*But these rational arguments are clearly beyond you.*

Yabbs this is Hilarious!

*Gertrude, your vivid imagination and jump to conspiracy theories would be best used onthe ghost thread, where likeminded individuals can agree with you :)

Hey Yabbs It just so happens I think the ghost thread is the best on this forum. I am not selfish so I will provide you with some amusment as you have us.

See= Do click on free test Yabbs and let us know if we are in contact spitually:)
http://www.ashmorespiritualcentre.com/

I take it Yabby by your last comment you 'refuse' as a sheep farmer to make a comment on the live lambs being tossed to the lions? (which was your big chance) to show farmers DO care about their animals. Is that right Yabby? You too Belly?


Yabby
I have tried not to be personally offensive to you because that would be counter productive for the animals and Australia.

However if anybody understands the industrys problems its you.
You say you have encouraged more plants to be reopended and I beleive that TBO.
However you seem to put far more time into pushing the live trade.
You could have spent more time telling Nicky of some of the difficulties.
Many dont understand its not the farmers but 'the system'.

In days gone by farmers were not chickens.

The meat industry including Roos is riddled with corruption and you know it.

How sad to see nobody was game to give evidence at the enquiry.

Yabby,
Belly is not the only one that agrees with your viewpoint, so do not stop posting on threads regarding animals. We need someone who is currently in farming/grazing animals to give balance to some of the extreme and irrational views of animal rights advocates. Take PETA and mulesing as an example. They obviously have never seen a sheep being eaten alive by maggots let alone appreciate that mulesing can prevent that.

Belly is right in that the baby whale has been forgotten and the opportunity seized by some to mount their soapbox on animal rights.

I had thought that PALE was a bit more realistic by advocating and endeavouring to encourage an alternative to live exports, by establishing more abbatiors here. But sadly. after seeing PALES attitude to the baby whale it is obviopus that emotion rules and practicality is not even considered.

Banjo
I am sorry if I have upset you by going off topic
My comments about the whale were not based on media reports. It’s always the same with State govs there is “so much “confusion- lack of communication disorganization.
The whale is dead and it suffered too long in my honest opinion....
I will confess to being unsure what to do about all animal cruelty.
I am not a person who politically correct. I get so frustrated by all of that. If you knew the protection given to animal cruelty across the board .Recently we got for example evidence of poultry being lowed into fire alive to burn their feathers off before being lowered into boiling water.
Ok you say then show us. Wish it were that easy. You can’t show upsetting footage because it might upset people especially children.
If I had my way I would show it to every person in Australia.

People need to know what’s happening to get the public support to make changes. If you could see these intensive pig farms poultry farms and live exports I think you would be as horrified as us.

PETA do handle live exports in a different manner. I wish they would help to reopen plants and build them with the highest standards possible. BUT- not in this life time … I also acknowledge they have every right to protest animal cruelty in any way they wish.


Tell me honestly. What do you think of throwing LIVE lambs to lions?
Or if you like tossing a live baby whale to the lions.
For example do you think there is a difference possibly?

Yabby
You resort to personal insults when I ask you questions.
In that area you could actually learn from Belly who hasn’t been too scared to show his softer side and disclose something more of himself such as on the Ghost Thread.
Sometimes the manliest thing to do is give an insight into your soul. That is if you have one of course:)

Hi all
I agree, we have lost sight of the baby whale, and the other matters raised here could be raised on the threads current for that purpose. What is the "ghost" thread?

Can I refer those interested in the Chinese zoos and fur industry issues to that thread?

Nicky

PALE,
You did not upset me by going off topic, I simply acknowledged that the topic was lost. Before the live exports thing is gone can you (or perhaps Yabby) inform me as to how live sheep exporters can pay far more for mutton sheep than our mutton wholesalers do? I suspect it is the high cost of processing here and if so we can expect live exports for a long time yet.

There is lots of animal treatments I do not like but I hope the worst are done elsewhere than here. Like the burning feathers off live chooks. I trust that is in some foreign country. You showed us some pictures, by link, of skinned dogs which was not pretty so other links could be put up, with suitable warnings. Oh, and I would like to stop importing people of those cultures that flout ourT laws by holding cockfights. Ditto for those that carry out FGM on girls.

I do not like the tossing of live animals to lions. But I notice that wildlife documentaries only show clean kills by predators. Like a kitten playing with a mouse the young have to learn and that is not pretty to watch as some prey die much later from infection. Big cats reintroduced back into the wild have to be taught to kill. We never see pictures of that process. These things happen in other countries and I want to keep it that way. I can voice objection but basicly it is their business.

Reported this morning that a large pod of killer whales off south coast of NSW. This is ominous for any whale calves that can't keep up when heading back south

*I suspect it is the high cost of processing here*

Banjo, that is only part of the story. Yes, we lumber our export
industries with all sorts of taxes and charges, like payroll tax,
which are not applied in other parts of the world. But in that
case, in a healthy market, mutton prices in Sydney and Perth would
be similar, for costs would be similar. That is simply not the case.

I regularly benchmark prices between Dubbo and Katanning. Mr Fletcher
owns plants near both those saleyards. Over time I have seen prices
in Dubbo close to double those of Katanning. These differences seem
to be nothing other then competition, which exists in Eastern Australia,
but hardly in WA, for a number of reasons, mostly
political.

The live trade supplies a whole different market. In places like
Kuwait, you have large abattoirs, who supply the wet meat trade with
fresh meat every day. They buy animals from anywhere they can.
The vet there claims that the big difference is that what is done
in say Australia, is not really halal. I guess that is really
up to consumers to decide, where they want to spend their money.
It is also a relgious argument, within that particular religion.
I guess its a bit like the Jewish argument, which states that
an animal is not kosher, if shot with a stun gun first.

Yes, some animals in the ME are sold privately, but there are also
people in Australia, going to saleyards, to buy and butcher their
own meat. Most of them, as I understand it, land up in one of these
meatworks, as Govts are discouraging home slaughter, its a messy
business

So nice to see that everybody's managed to move on from poor Collette.

Yabby, for Heavens sake, no-one buys those arguments (religion, refrigeration) any more, evidenced by the massive amounts of frozen Australian meat sent to these countries. And from what we have seen of the film footage there is nothing halal about the slaughter there either. Have you heard of electrical stunning, by any chance?

Furthermore, the live export trade is NOT assailed by the costs of the processing sector - AQIS fees are waived, yet the processing sector has to pay them. Payroll tax, WCI and other labour costs are minimal because the numbers employed in that sector in this country are minimal. Local processors have to pay those on-costs. The number of wharfies employed is trivial, and you can't really count the doctors, dentists, accommodation and hospitality workers like the Hassall Report/s do/does, including the people working at the cafes where the transporters buy their fags.

All the ships are foreign owned with foreign crews from third world countries.

As for the price differentials between west and east, if the west is as advanced as you claim, surely there are one or two people over there with enough fundamental intelligence, and some entrepreneurial ability to address that.

Nicky

Nicky, for heavens sake, what arguments you buy or don't buy are
frankly irrelevant. It is what the Arab consumer buys or does not
buy and why, that matters. Now if a vet at the main slaughterhouse
in Kuwait states that what we do in Austrlia is not halal and that is
why some consumers buy locally slaughteted meat, he clearly knows far
more about those reasons then you do. Its an argument I have heard
before. I remind you that interpretation of religious beliefs is
a personal choice, much as where people spend their money.
So different people have different opinions, just like in Australia.

Locally slaughtered meat is not cheap, sheep landed in the ME are
not cheap. Clearly people choose to buy that meat for their own
reasons. You would not last long in a marketing business, if
you wanted to tell customers what they should or should not buy.
That is up to them.

Of course live shippers pay AQIS fees. AQIS is about fee for service
and as no detailed carcass inspection is involved in live exports,
there is no need for that service.

If anybody wants to go ahead and build more meatworks in WA, they
are free to do so. So far most have backed off, due to much Govt
red tape. A past Govt held Roger Fletchers hand to get established,
this Govt, as it does not need country votes to stay in office,
won't do it. So none get built and entrepreneurs walk away.

As to the Australian economy, if farmers are spending 60$ per head
sold rather then 20$, that increase in spending would generate
huge benefits for rural communities. No wonder that MLA, backed
by 45'000 voting farmers, promotes both trades, meat and live.

Yabby,
Having retired from grazing for some years now I do not keep up with current trends or prices. Last I saw was that live export quality wethers sold in the paddock were bringing far more than if I had taken them to auction. This is in NSW and the farmer may have to retain the sheep for a short time while trucking is arranged. This usually was not a problem.

While ever that situation continues live exporters will get suitable sheep. We have a lot of cast for age sheep to dispose of each and every year and farmers need to get the best price for them that they can. I do not think anyone would deny them that.

Banjo
Nice to see you as an x farmer care about burning the feathers off live chooks. I hate to tell you but no its here.

To your question
Yabby always said Rodger had a hand out from the Government but he's a one man band.
Still a meat and potato man who thinks for himself. Probably not telling you anything you didn’t know already. Still thinking for him. =
http://theland.farmonline.com.au/news/state/agribusiness-and-general/general/trains-for-meat-grain/812759.aspx

Pity there was not more like him instead of this new age commercial lot who don’t feel any responsibility towards supplying employment for country towns or loyalty to Australia. Such men are a dying race.

There are many factors to your question Banjo.

*I do not think anyone would deny them that*
So we must look at doing the best deal 'without' the middle man. Farmers taking control over this mongrel Government and the system that have pretended the look after them. Yabbys right about the red tape and if we want it fixed we need more farmers and Animal Welfare groups putting alternatives on the table. These people need to work together and sadly I feel it’s too late for that to happen. (Too much damage as some people blames the farmers instead of the Government doing their dirty trade deals with their buddies in the industry.

If you want the truth Banjo I feel if it’s been left too late to stop live exports from Australia. There have been too many missed opportunities.
Instead of plants being build here as agreed hey will now be in Malaysia Indonesia...
A world wide Halal accreditation through ICI has been put into place. Australia could have easily ensured those plants and more were built here but nobody cared to push that line.
Most said don’t eat meat at all playing into the hands of the opposition, others simply did not have the right advisers to fully understand the unique opportunity. Knowledge of the meat industry is vital if you want farmers to listen to new ideas and projects.

Yes, Yabby, we have seen plenty of evidence of what goes on in Kuwait regarding Halal slaughter. A Kuwaiti vet in a Kuwaiti slaughterhouse is going to say what he is paid to say, just like your "experts" here do.

Banjo, may I ask if you were involved in the live animal export trade?

PALE, no animal advocacy group is directing people not to eat meat, as I have pointed out countless times before. They oppose cruelty, in a;; the forms it takes. They rely on the support of their members, most of whom would be meat eaters. I suspect that what they drew the line at was PROFITEERING from slaughtering animals, according to your model. and possibly the bullying that has gone on.

Nicky

Nicky
You know it’s amazing you know so much about how others feel about pale while at the same time denying you are involved with them.

Whatever- but can we stick to the animals for once. Its untrue nobody was against reopening abattoirs. Dear God we have it on letter heads. PETA refuse to debate it.

*Nobody is telling people not to eat meat*
Oh no Nicky, just not to talk to pale 'the animal killers.' You made it 'very clear' in two years you are our enermy-

You seem to take offense to ‘any comment’ I make Nicky if it doesn’t ‘comply’ with the dictators and I don’t ask permission to speak.

Regardless of 'who' was working to reopen abattoirs it might have been better to have helped instead of blocking.

Also as you well know Nicky our involvement, was not a financial gain but one of giving.
Any plants reopening- or new plants were to receive a donation from the co joint operators which was going back as a donation to other groups.

If I *were to be an owner then wouldn’t it be better to have someone who cared enough to make sure the stock was treated as well as possible.
Wouldn’t it be kinder to make sure that ALL owners held a deep respect for animals and demanded their staff treat them better than they have been

How do you ever expect to make changes for the better if you don’t get involved in the industry?
Have you ever stopped to think things through, instead of being so emotional about animals being killed at all.

I feel JUST the same as you but I am not selfish enough to put my head in the sand Nicky. I love animals enough to do what has to be done to make it as easy as possibly.

You just want to argue because you cant change the world. Pretty self indulgent. Sorry But I am sick of trying to be polite while you attack pale and their fantasic unpaid helpers.

Nicky
*They rely on the support of their members, most of whom would be meat eaters. I suspect that what they drew the line at was PROFITEERING from slaughtering animals, according to your model. And possibly the bullying that has gone on.*

Again for someone who claims to have no connection you sure do seem to speak for them 100% of the time. Here’s the thing Nicky you really need to start thinking for you.

*I suspect that what they drew the line at was PROFITEERING from slaughtering*

Nicky the meat industry is tough and large you either get in or get someone to advise you who knows something about the industry or you don’t.

Who told you we were PROFITEERING? I must have missed that alert warning email. Funny I had most of them sent on to me- buy a sheep farmer actually. A sheep farmer who had a lot more knowledge and experience than you who supported to co joint project a hundred percent just like Bridgett Bardott and many other animal lovers.

TBO I really think the main problem is that PALE thought to start this program and they didn’t. Just like it’s a huge problem with you and your buddies that pale works in conjunction with RSPCA QLD.

*Bullying* Ok Nicky you want to talk about Bullying? Are you SURE.

I have never posted on OLO about the attempts at Bullying but maybe it’s not such a bad idea now you raise it.

Only the Federal Government are aware on both sides- but I suppose your right we really ought to consider telling the public everything.

Often they use a single person to call up RSPCA QLD (who are not falling for those tricks) or write to the department of fair trading etc.
Ring any bells Nicky. Oh and BTW I have a lovely letter from WSPA HERE WHO IS KIDDING WHO?

Tell ME Nicky DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THESE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO HAVE LIVE EXPORTS DIVERTED TO CHILL?
I MEAN YOU’RE NOT THAT GULLABLE- are you?

Sorry TYPO PROBLEM

Banjo, in WA about 70-80% of livestock never see a saleyard, as
few farmers trust them, so they are becoming more a point to unload
bits and pieces, small lines etc.

Because we have so few buyers and more and more contract buyers,
they can easily move saleyard prices to suit themselves. At least
in the East, you have quite alot more competition, which is reflected
in the price to growers.

Most stock are now sold weight and grade, or on farm. But of course
if there is only one major mutton buyer and he is offering 20 bucks,
who do you ring for a better price? The buyers know that. That is
why the live trade is so critical to WA agriculture.

*A Kuwaiti vet in a Kuwaiti slaughterhouse is going to say what he is paid to say, just like your "experts" here do.*

Nicky,around the world, professional people express their opinions. Our
courts rely on those opinions, our Govts rely on those opinions.
Its rather insulting of you to all professionals, to suggest that
they are unable to express what they think. The most biased people
I know are in fact the religious, who sing from their philosophical
hymn sheet, as you do.

Anyhow, as consumers in the ME are clearly voting with their wallets,
it is for them to decide what they believe, not for you to decide.

Yabby, for someone who preaches incessantly, repetitively and relentlessly from the MLA gospel, you are the last person to be accusing someone else of doing that. It's a sad state of affairs that courts and governments rely upon the sorts of "paid experts" you describe, because they usually have vested/commercial interests.

"Voters" in the Middle East ARE doing so with their wallets, the volume of the frozen meat trade clearly demonstrates that. It is only a matter of time, unfortunately for you and your cohorts.

PALE, how on earth did this become yet another soapbox for you to spew your venom about every other animal advocate in Australia and overseas? I have absolutely no idea to what email alert or sheep farmer you refer, nor do I act upon anyone's instructions. I have simply drawn my own conclusions based on the ridiculous paranoia you keep repeating endlessly here. The fact that PALE and HKM (the slaughterhouse venture) seem to share at least one common director/president draws clear parallels; even YOU must see how that appears to other animal advocates; individuals and groups. I actually only know what other groups think of PALE because YOU keep endlessly making these bizarre and paranoid claims. I also have no idea what Animals Australia, Animal Liberation, AAQ, PETA, WSPA or anyone else has said has said to you or about you since I have not discussed you with any of them. Furthermore, it is YOU who keep using the term "animal killers" - I have not heard it from anyone else.

When I referred to bullying, I refer to a number of people who were gullible enough to contact PALE on request, only to find themselves harassed to death; there is plenty of evidence of that on these threads without any additional research. And if you want to cite Brigitte Bardot, it would be good if you learned how to spell her name.

Nicky

*It's a sad state of affairs that courts and governments rely upon the sorts of "paid experts" you describe, because they usually have vested/commercial interests.*

Ah of course, Governments have it all wrong, courts have it all
wrong. Only Nicky and friends are unbiased. Hehe, what are you
smoking there ?

*the volume of the frozen meat trade clearly demonstrates that. It is only a matter of time, unfortunately for you and your cohorts.*

What the volume of frozen meat shows is that different consumers
have different opinions and different beliefs, just like in
Australia. Its up to them to decide, not up to you to tell them
what to buy.

*The fact that PALE and HKM (the slaughterhouse venture) seem to share at least one common director/president draws clear parallels;

* Even YOU must see how that appears to other animal advocates;*...

Nicky
I think I *do see* how forming direct partnerships with overseas investors and farmers might appear ‘to some’- yes.

I have long been suspicious of why the millions raised in donations have not been used in major advertising – or even to buy free range farms and run them as business putting one hundred percent back into animal welfare.

pale can’t be worried about offending the small percentage of people or vegetarians groups.
The fact is 98% of the Australian public do eat meat and btw the love our Aussie farmers.

That is why we work with RSPCA QLD. Even if you do not like it they are the legal body for animal welfare in this country.

RSPCA are main stream in their views so hold some credibility when they protest live exports with the public.

We all have different ways and approaches of handling animal welfare (which is a good thing)

Tell me has it ever occurred to that having others protest the live export market -from a totally different approach actually gives you some credibility.

Now the Government cant say ALL Animal Welfare Groups are veggie extremists. That actually helps the animals which is our first concern.

I put it to you that- you have lost some credibility not only for yourself but for those you support, by 'again' making such an 'issue' of our HKM program.


HKM is a project that’s is a united effort of PALES staff Muslim Leaders and RSPCA QLD (and a very kind lawyers who give their time for free)

I don’t have a problem to debate you on the feelings and position of pale verses others- and their written and unwritten attitude.

However ask yourself are you really helping the animals by making such posts as you have above.
It only plays into Yabbys hands and that of the live exporters media and Government.

PALE, you can put what you like to me. I have drawn conclusions, as would any ordinary member of the public, from the fact that two very similar websites, one purporting to campaign against live exports and the other what appears to be very much a slaughterhouse venture, with a common director and/or president, suggests money will change hands over the slaughter of animals.

Conversely, the websites of Animals Australia, and PETA (just two examples) while also campaigning against live exports, also promote a frozen meat trade but without any implied financial gain from slaughtering animals. Can you not see the distinction? And no-one particularly cares whether you do or do not work "in conjunction with RSPCA Queensland" - so far as I know, no-one has ever expressed any ill-feeling towards that organization. In fact, I suspect that none of them could care less. The RSPCA is a bit short on credibility, I'm afraid (speaking of millions of dollars of funding and what should be done with it)

I would also suggest that it is not for you to be telling these organizations what they should be doing with their funds, and that it would certainly not be in the millions of dollars - in this country anyway. That is the sort of bullying behaviour I have earlier described.

Finally, I have no concerns about my credibility, nor about "playing into Yabby's hands"; I have no interest in debating him any longer and hearing the same claptrap and gender based insults any more. But you go knock yourself out if you want to persevere with arguing against his gospel according to LiveCorp/MLA.

Nicky

And to get back to the topic of this thread"-

Statement from Captain Paul Watson

"We view the life of every Humpback whale as valuable and if anything can be done to save the life of this young baby Humpback than we encourage and support every effort to ensure that he survives.

I would propose finding a small cove, inlet or bay to keep Colin safe and then attempting to feed Colin with a mixture of krill and small fish. Finding whale milk is difficult if not impossible. If Colin is old enough to be weaned then this could work.

It is of course an awesome task to care for and provide life saving care to a whale. It truly is a whale of a task but we can’t be faulted for trying, just for refusing to try.

Australians have an opportunity to demonstrate that they do not just talk about saving whales but that they are prepared to do whatever it takes to protect them, including this little orphan.

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society wishes to work with the governments both Federal and State, the media, other groups and concerned Australian citizens to mobilize an effort to save Colin.

We can do this!"

Captain Paul Watson

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=94163754&blogID=428557382

*PALE, no animal advocacy group is directing people not to eat meat, as I have pointed out countless times before.
Posted by Nicky,

Nicky

I have let you off lightly ,in the past with your outragous statements, and tried, to point out that, we have the concern of animals in common.'
It must be two years now- or is it three. We didnt come into this forum to debate the difference in animal welfare groups.

We came in to draw attention to farmers that we can do it another way- and the public.
It would be clear to everybody that pale are people concerned for animal welfare even if they have no interested in the subject.

Nicky shall we examine your statements? Lets start with this one.=

*no animal advocacy group is directing people not to eat meat,*

~Nicky that simply is untrue.~

And this one >*They oppose cruelty,*

Who are they Nicky? Please be clear.

Also how do you know what *they* rely on when you keep telling us you are not a member of any groups and work alone?

Lets take another look at that statement again shall we?

*PALE, no animal advocacy group is directing people not to eat meat, as I have pointed out countless times before.*

Such arrogance and ignorance Nicky. You really dont have a clue do you.
Because Nicky your either being led up the garden path by *they* or your back peddling on the forum only.

We were very unpopular for working in conjunction with RSPCA QLD and supporting them.

Before we decided to go that way we looked at all the options.

However at the end of the day RSPCA are the animal welfare body of this country. Our CEO along with Hugh has always said the biggest problem with Animal Welfare in Australia is the fact other groups work against us
We agree and contnue to support ALL Animal Welfare groups and members of the public concerned for Animal Welfare.
Its nice to see support Free Range Farmers now up on some web now sites.

Well done.

Yabby,
Thanks for that info. Am somewhat intrigued by your name Yabby, we know of yabbies to be fresh water crayfish or craybobs I have visited WA once, for a wedding, and stayed for a week near the coast, down south. The kids there were talking about Marron,so I just assumed that was your local name for craybobs.

Nicky
My involvement with live exporters was only as an occasional seller of sheep. My main activity was beef cattle and fat lambs.

Pale
I am shocked to hear of such treatment of chooks in Aus. I can't imagine such happening in a commercial killing facility. Can you give more details please and is it vetinary approved? What does the RSPCA have to say about it?

Banjo, yup Marron are in the South West, but there are 90'000
farm dams in WA and a great many of them contain yabbies, as they
are tough little critters and can survive where marron can't.
They also taste really good :)

I am interested in biology and from that aspect alone, they are
fascinating creatures. See a dam as an ecosystem and nature takes
its course, the fittest survive. Yabbies are actually highly
cannabilistic, if natural food gets short and their survival is
at stake. If you feed them, they are quite different, become
very placid and content and seem to get along much better.
A bit like humans really :)

So if you want to understand basic evolution theory, you need no
more then a farm dam.

PALE, thank you so much for "letting me off lightly"; I shall sleep far more easily for that.

"They" are the public websites of (for example) Animals Australia, Animal Liberation, WSPA, CIWF, PETA and like groups. I do not need to be personally informed by them and do not communicate directly with them (yet again!). None is directing people not to eat meat, although they do, in some cases, present alternatives. It would be strategically unsound if they did anything else, since they rely on public donations, and the vast majority of their members would not be vegetarian/vegan. I suggest you update your reading of THEIR websites. There is nothing "extreme" about any of that.

PALE, on the other hand, has the websites I have described earlier, and makes a habit of describing animals as "stock", "livestock" and "beasts", which are not terms generally used by genuine animal advocates. Probably none of them chose to get involved in your slaughterhouse venture (although we never hear the truth about all that, just wild accusations) because of that sort of ethos and the clear parallel between PALE and a (money-making) slaughtering outfit, but also because it appears to have gone nowhere.

I am aware that Wirthless made that particular comment, but since his personal credibility is sadly lacking I doubt if anyone took much notice. It's not unlike his using RSPCA funds to hire security guards because some RSPCA Victoria volunteers and vet students were so frustrated with him that they threw a bit of water based paint over him at a function.

Conversely, your RSPCA Queensland CEO informed me that he works collaboratively with a number of Queensland groups, and ranked PALE to be of no greater significance than that. It is unfortunate that the RSPCA is (largely) responsible for animal welfare in this country, since it is the only legislation to be enforced by a charity which in many cases, lacks either the will and/or ability to do the job.

BTW, what did you do with that evidence you claimed to have about the chickens?

Nicky

Hi All

Nicky, 'Thank You' for posting the link about the whale.

Yabby and Banjo
Nice to see two farmers chatting on OLO.

Banjo re the chooks.

*I can't imagine such happening in a commercial killing facility.*

Its horrible but sadly common.
Some with two heads and extra feet etc...

Kept in the most dreadful conditions.
As I said before,they are lowered on a belt into the fire 'alive' to remove feathers.

Most come out still alive screaming and then are lowered into boiling water.
Many are still alive even after that.
From there down to have the throats slit but not right through to allow them to bleed.
All while a guy mumbles a few words etc..
I can not disclose the where abouts yet. I am sorry.

When Pamala Anderson visted Kentucy Fried chicken
to highlight the plight of these creatures all the media could talk about was her shorts and breast.
They make me so angry with their
irresponsible reoporting - but thats politics
and media play the game 'very well.'

What does the RSPCA have to say about it?

RSPCA have MOUs with DPI state Governments
to inspect these plants. If we reported it,
possibly the owners could be tipped off.

Its a well oiled system by our state Governments
which can be used for anything from
Animal Welfare to Prostitution.
We do not trust State or Federal Governments
to do their job or report honestlty
in matters regarding animal welfare.

If the public really knew the conditions
that intensive animals are kept we could fix it.
However the truth is blocked from
being revealed by the Government
and the Governments control over the media.

There` too much conflict of interest
for media outlets who often survive on
advertsing through the industry.

Imagine a country newspaper
reporting negitively
about live exports.
Wouldnt last five minutes.

(Nicky , cant release evidence just yet sorry.
Regarding RSPCA QLD and our CEO we were chatting
yesterday at our AGM.
I am very sure he would be well
aware of intentions of any enquier
by the nature of the questions.

*PALE, on the other hand, has the websites I have described earlier, and makes a habit of describing animals as "stock", "livestock" and "beasts", which are not terms generally used by genuine animal advocates*
Posted by Nicky

Well gee wiz, sorry about that boss.
I think it’s a good thing that somebody speaks in terms farmers do.
We “'are” talking about' stock and “beasts” Nicky=that are bred for the meat industry.

You’re a funny girl you really are. If it makes you happy let me know what Glenyse calls a cow.

If it’s something I feel farmers might fathom I might consider changing my evil ways just to keep the peace:)

I think, what you are really saying, is pale does not conform to ‘others’ who speak 'politically' -as you do.

Our backgrounds are very different. Mind you I have a long line of Judges Polys and lawyers in my blood line. But I reckoned Dad made more sense than any of them as a down to earth farmer. You could say no 'bull' I guess.

Re web sites. I don’t mind what others have. However we were DELIGHTED to see support Free Range Farm Animals.

I told you before re our site the situation. Pls feel free to take it over ANYTIME.

I am aware that Wirthless made...
Well Glory me, then why would the Handle with Care collation put him as head.

“What does that tell you?”

SPEAKING OF POLITICS

Wake up Nicky for the Animals Sake! WHY did Hugh Wirth ignore our invatations to meet Muslim of Australia supporting reopening plants and phasing out live exports? Why did your heroes?

They SHOULD have, ALL been sitting, at the table ,holding discussions, with the Malaysian ;Government
and Muslim Leaders of Australia regarding making Malaysia the hub of Halal meat for the world- by reopening plants in Australia to slaughter here and exporting the carcass to Malaysian ports.

Opportunities missed ....
Where the bloody hell were they!

PALE, how did prostitution get into this, for heavens sake? You really have the most staggering conspiracy theories. And unless someone is planning to lay charges over the chickens, I would suggest that you should be releasing the evidence you have to the media (depending upon how it was obtained it may not be admissible in the event of charges anyway). I would have expected that you would want to get it out there so that this operation can be exposed and shut down.

I have no idea why Wirtless became the spokesperson of Handle with Care, but I imagine that the coalition had its reasons. I have no idea either what Glenys would call a cow (most likely a "cow", I'd suggest), but, as I have pointed out, referring to animals as "stock", "livestock" and "beasts" demonstrates a lack of the empathy one usually finds in the animal advocacy movement. Even if I were in a position to take over your website, I would not do so for the reasons I have stated earlier about choosing not to be involved with your project. I don't know either why Wirthless, or anyone else, for that matter, chose not to meet with your "Muslim leaders", but as I have said before, it most likely has to do with your aggressive, bullying approach - evidenced by almost all your posts.

You should just do what you do, and let others get on with doing what they do, without constantly trying to harass and discredit them.

Nicky

Nicky

“No Nicky it’s quite the opposite but maybe that’s what you have been told. If you have,- you have been lied to.
YOU are the only one who brings this up and we will continue to defend our name in response to your attacks. I suggest you let it drop. Do not force my hand to put these letters up because it won’t help the animals and I don’t think you would be popular TBO

Re the chicken we don’t need you to tell me how to run an investigation having owned an investigation company half my life your - but thanks anyway.
You are so naive you know nothing about corruption within Government and other departments.

I call livestock stock and cattle beasts because its common term within the industry.
I have a farming background 3 generations. Its normal talk.

No wonder why farmers don’t want a bar of animal welfare groups
When you come out with this type silly complaints.

Again I say to you Nicky regardless of different strokes for different folks it would be clear to you I sit here typing about animal welfare as much as you do.

The difference between us is you do this in your spare time and I full time in conjunction with RSPCA QLD.

So again you have gone out of your way to not work towards improving animal welfare but rather to create disharmony.
That’s not helping animals.

Posts have been noticed for some time now by our Head Office. I can assure you that it isn’t appreciated by RSPCA QLD nor our lawyers or members- or Islamic Leaders who have worked hard with us for six years.
It is the only arrangement like that in Australia- or world wide for that matter so pls does not patronize me Nicky.

I am rather tired of your childish goings on. What you need to know I am no fool

You need to listen about MLA handing accreditation rights for feed lots over to feed lot owners... You didn’t know that did you>? Be honest.
Nor do many AFAIK

Hi Nicky , if live chooks being burnt can get into a thread about a whale prostitution surely can.
May I give you a tip?
It is not worth it.
It was unwise of me to re enter this thread.
But if you look you will see a very big change in my posting habits.
You can never win and it is not productive to try.
Sorry but we can not always debate animal welfare in an honest way,yet
regards

The froot loops have shut down another thread, I see. More claims of "evidence" and "lawyers" and who knows what going on in that fantastically imaginative little house on the Gold Coast.

Why do people bother responding to the rantings of lunatics, especially when they're off-topic?

Nicky

This is the second time you have accused us of going off post just to suit your self.
Again I have copied YOUR post where YOU went off topic

Belly I was right about the Whale and the Government its as simply as that. What I dont like is I am pretty sure you wouldnt have started this thread if you had known the real facts.
I hope I am wrong

Antiseptic you have a valid point that is why I said it was unwise to re enter the thread.
I do however think Nicky has a right to her opinions even if I often disagree with her.
Again Yabby is just what he appears to be an Aussie who has views most country people share.
About that whale, not that I want to divert the threads new direction.
Sydney Medea tells us a new whale is in trouble of our coast.
Caught in a net it may die while I am unsure how we can help I am amused by the picture that will not leave my mind of Morris and Kevin swimming madly trying to cut the thing free from the whale

Belly
It is sad to hear another whale is in trouble. We have a great deal to answer for I suppose when it comes to what we do to Animals.
Pls remember I did tell you the facts about the whale. Good you opended a thread about a topic that was not just about people.
It is to your credit. Now you have had time to hear the other side of the story what do you feel about the way in which the matter of the whale was handled.
Do you have an opinion perhaps on how we can improve things.

Belly, and Antiseptic, I REALLY hear what you're saying. And I fully respect your rights to disagree with me too. Antiseptic, I am well used to the threats of "lawyers", but they remain conspicuous by their silence.

Maybe it's some sort of personal perversity that I continue.

I find it supremely ironic that PALE claims to be "no fool" given some of the material posted on these threads. But have you noticed? On top of the threats, the feigned outrage and the attitude, a new strain of patronizing has now crept in that no-one else knows anything about government - or anything else for that matter.

For your information, PALE, it is, believe it or not, widely known that those terms are used in the "industry" (if you regard sentient beings as an "industry", as you clearly do), my point was that they are terms not commonly used by animal advocates. And what does it really matter if MLA handed "accreditation rights" to feedlots"? What material difference is it going to make? What will it change? Absolutely nothing so there is little point in making a big deal of it (much like the Cole enquiry and the apapthy that attached to that).

You do not type so much about "animal welfare" as about your imagination, PALE and HKM, and the material at the HKM website does not appear to be especially current (I think it has been there since about 2003, has it not?).

And finally - once and for all - no-one, including all the people you claim as your enemies, has discussed PALE with me. I simply formed my own conclusions from the information available, including your posts on this forum.

Nicky

Nicky

I am totally sick of your quest to hassle our organisation.
Unlike PETA we work with RSPCA QLD Muslim Leaders and farmers.

You do not work with people with knowledge of the industry Nicky. Neither do PETA etc.


Its simply not good enough to say- its cruel. You have to understand the background of the industry and the very real problems farmers have with the Government.

"I simply do not believe you that you are not involved with PETA and extremists."
Your obbession towards us only highlights your obbession with anybody eating using projects produced from Animals.

Yabby is correct Nicky you are totally obbessed.


The official instructions given to us are not address posts from you.- I told you that months ago.

I do not care too hoots if you THINK I should not call cattle-= stock beasts or heads. You may call them whatever you wish but you dont dicate to us.

Unlike you we also work with farmers( as was the case today) he wondered why I smiled when he mentioned beasts stock and heads. So in the end I told him.
That was the begining of a few amusing stories he told us when he was gate crashed years ago by some of your university extremists mates protesting abattoirs and farmers.

Web sites-

You are well aware of our web site and why its not changed in a while. Its none of your business but if you like I will pass your comments onto RSPCA QLD CEO who is still trying to get the web master to get around to it.

The Lady who was doing it is very ill, I do not build web sites already doing sixteen hour days working with Muslims farmers RSPCA QLD and the public.
Nor do we raise millions in donations like PETA.
RSPCA QLD are a very busy branch Nicky involved in many projects.

PALE, really. Do I care what you think, or what you believe I may be involved in? Not at all. Do I think you have clue about what you're talking about? Likewise. BTW, why did you not follow the "head office" instruction not to respond to my posts? From what I understand PALE operates from a house on the Gold Coast - WHAT Head Office?

Do I care if (live export, but not all) farmers have problems with the government? I think the biggest problem the loudest whingers have is the size of the handout. All this talk about "we work with RSPCA Queensland ... with farmers ..,. with Muslim leaders..." but absolutely nothing about what work that is.

So don't call into question the credibility of others until you have some of your own.

Nicky

Belly

There you go this is useless.

*Our job is to support RSPCA QLD in their fight against live exports and any other way we can.*

I will tell you of RSPCA Qld position over many years. The CEO took charge at a time when several problems had risen. One huge problem was the property which was used was taken back by the council so everybody had to relocate. - "not easy."

To top it off another kind property owner- (a developer) took over and put the rent up 240%. (So kind of him)

This meant it would take three weeks of each month to just pay the rent- leaving one to try to put towards feeding+ to vet , inspections, of animals.

As well a property RSPA QLD we to relocate to also has been held up by council red tape,

Apart from the second chance shops people work from their own homes.
Pale operated from the Southport indoor pistol club for three years as the offices were donated to us.

Later we needed to care for wildlife joeys as well and thank goodness Antje has a world of knowledge in these areas,so we made combined everything .

We have 'three offices' and one is in a house which also is a head office for state security investigations and another commercial identity which donates back to feeding animals.

AND HAS COUNCIL APPROVAL TO OPERATE FROM THERE.

We hold conferences at an international language school or at George the lawyer’s restaurant and conference rooms.

At the RSPCA QLD AGM last weekend the room was over flowing with wonderful people who without them we couldn’t operate.
All those people work from their own properties.

I take it others spent donation money to pay rent- how sad. That would feed and house many starving animals and help run an adoption program.
Unlike some RSPCA QLD are hands on with Animals doing thousands of investigations each year and taking even more phone calls.

If it meant operating out of a shoe box- that would be just fine too to help animals!