ChazP. Careful your prejudice is showing. Your views seem to be implying that all our threats come from without.People with evil intentions are not exclusive to outside our borders.

Fact of life where there are privileged and non- privileged there will always be tension. Especially when the have-nots believe are being exploited and manipulated, denied an acceptable life and opportunity. Some of the most anti immigration are settled refugees frightened someone will threaten what they have built.

The trick is to ensure that tension doesn't escalate into down right hostility.As is the case between the West and the Middle East, Africa and Asia.Religion, nationalism, extremism all need Gross imbalances of opportunity and injustice to flourish. Borders aren’t the answer equality (through Tollerance)is.

To your seed issue stats show population growth slows with oppotunity and affluence. In a recent interview an African tribespeson was told that statistically starvation would kill 2 in 3 children in his tribe. His response was..."I must have more children so some will be able to look after me when I'm old." the implication is as clear as it is Darwinian. What do you think?

Ludwig

'Runner, your main concern appears to be that some ethnic groups, presumably within Australia, continue to breed faster than white or traditional Australians. Correct me if I’m wrong.'

No, I just don't think we should continue to allow people with completely different value systems to come here and suck the Welfare system dry.

You along with many others assume we are over populated now. Who says? The standard of living here now is much higher than 30 years ago. The main problem is Governments have not planned for the increase in immigration. The Brisbane road system is a disgrace. Most places where Labour State Governments have been in power for a while are similar.

Australia has plenty of resources for lots more people. It just needs to be handled probably. It is laughable how we fail to make dams, increase our immigration and then blame 'climate change' for not having enough water. Greed and lack of planning is the problem not over population.

I actually agree that we could take more money from the welfare system and given to the pensioners

Examinator : "To your seed issue stats show population growth slows with oppotunity and affluence. In a recent interview an African tribespeson was told that statistically starvation would kill 2 in 3 children in his tribe. His response was..."I must have more children so some will be able to look after me when I'm old." the implication is as clear as it is Darwinian. What do you think?".

I have made my arguments abundantly clear in my first posting which initiated this thread. Further population growth in Australia is not sustainable nor affordable and is causing rapid deterioration in the quality of life of current residents, especially those who you have categorised as the `have-nots'. It is they who are suffering most from the housing shortage and being unable to compete for accommodation with rapidly rising rents. It is they who are unable to afford basic foodstuffs and petrol etc as a proportion of their income. It is they who are unable to afford medical treatment and to access public hospital beds. It is they whose children are being educated in over-crowded public schools etc etc.

So if they should rebel as you claim, it will have been caused by this lack of understanding of their position by political decision-makers. At the moment they are being bouyed up by political giveaways and other government handouts such as the Baby Bonus and pre-occupied by Footy events to take their minds off their problems and the big issues, but this will not last forever. But it is not the have-nots however who bring about revolutions, it is the aspiring middle-income grades. whose aspirations disappear along with their previous achievements. See French and Russian Revolutions.

ChasP. I think you are missing my point. Like our polution our population on a world scale is miniscule. Of course we should clean up our own backyard and PLAN our FUTURE rather than "she'll be right mate"

But if we as a species are to survive we need to take a better look at the big picture. When Genhis Kahn and his hoards attacked Kiev and slaughtered the lot I think it was a moot point whose lack of understanding it was. I was refering to 20million "whities" in Aust with 3 Billion poor Asians who will be the first to suffer through pollution or Global Climate change. If we keep giving them the finger guess what might reasonably happen?

The US runaway train foreign policy(?)focuses on internal politics and look what mess the middle east is as a consequence.

Self preservation tells me that if we want to keep the teeming hoards home don't give them a reason to leave. Also there is a clear relationship between poverty and child production
Do I have a specific viable solution? am I proposing any action? No to both. I offer my observation not as a criticsm but for what they're worth.

Examinator: Your argument seems to be that unless we allow immigration to Australia by legitimate means, that hordes from the north will invade us in their millions. I cannot believe you are serious. So immigration is allowed out of fear?. I'm sure Rudd and Brumby will be interested in that reasoning, it seems to fit with every ill-considered irrational policy they have at the moment.
And its not a case of `She'll be right, mate". Its a case of sorting out the current massive infrastructure problems we have at the moment before adding to those problems on the current scale by continuing population growth. I did say earlier that a five year moritorium would give us some breathing space to engage in this process rather than the `Catch-up game' that has constantly been played in the past by Federal and State governments who have now become a part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. They cause the infrastructure problems and then try to look good in solving them - at massive cost to the taxpayers of course.

I couldn't agree more with ChazP's post on the problems that population growth in Australia is serving to compound. Our governments at all levels are acting with practically criminal irresponsibility in encouraging this growth.

Those opposed to continued population growth both worldwide and in Australia recognize that that we are lumbered with finite resources both from a global and countrywide perspective and have worked hard to understand the problems humanity faces as a result of this growth.

They have worked hard also to counter the motherhood statements peddled by vested financial interests that are so often used to further their own agendas. The need to cater for an aging population is one such motherhood that has been well and truly debunked by various contributors to this discussion.

Perpetual economic growth as a necessity of existence is another assumed "given" espoused by the well healed advocates of population growth who ignore the fact that, at least for developed economies as a whole there is no correlation between population growth and per capita income growth. In Australia itself though we are at the moment probably achieving per capita income growth while at the same time bumping up our population at unprecedented rates. Even so I would be very surprised if, because our terms of trade have moved so much in our favour, we would not have been vastly better off (per capita) than we are today had our governments not opted to open the gates to ever-increasing numbers of immigrants.

Certainly we would not have had to face the high level of environmental damage, social disruption and the increasing gap between the rich and not so well off that we now face.

I call on the proponents of continued population growth in Australia to underpin their views with sound science, logic or data or else see the light.