CONT'D

Collins further says, "In the process Catholicism
is in danger of losing aspects of its essential
core., that is, worship, Mass and the Sacraments,
the very heart of the church, and a defining
element of what it means to be Catholic. Yet in order
to hang onto celibacy senior ecclesiastics refuse to
train and ordain suitable married men to lead that
worship.

And they do this in face of the fact that the vast
majority of Jesus' apostles and disciples were married,
including the first pope, Saint Peter, as were by far
the greater number of priests and bishops in the first
1100 years of the church's existence."

So why do Church authorities still resist?

Collins gives a quote from experienced church lawyer and
former Sydney Auxiliary Bishop Geoffrey Robinson:

"I believe that the Catholic Church is in a prison...
It constructed the prison for itself, locked itself in and
threw away the key. That prison is the prison of not
being able to be wrong... Far too often the Catholic Church
believed that it had such a level of divine guidance that
it did not need the right to be wrong...even when clear
evidence emerges that earlier decisions were conditioned
by their own time and that the arguments for them are not
as strong as they were once thought to be."

This doctrine of infallibility is something that
Collins stresses the Church must now confront.
And commonsense must now prevail

runner, I find it interesting that in the past, when you have been criticised for having an attitude that bases its logic solely on staunch catholicism you've claimed to not be catholic - yet you despise abortions and vociferously speak out in defence of the religion.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

In any case, I'd like to make this contribution to the debate. Allow me to introduce, Pope Alexander the sixth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI

"it was not long before his passion for endowing his relatives at the church's and his neighbours' expense became manifest. Alexander VI had four children by his mistress (Vannozza dei Cattani), three sons and a daughter."

Ah. Well, technically, she wasn't his 'wife' I suppose. Nor were the other, uh, female companions the Popes of that time had.

I know this example's from the past, and clearly it's a different practice today. But given that papal authority is supposedly based on historical events, then I'd say this is a pretty valid entry as well.

Celibacy for the clergy is much like Popes taking new names when appointed and the wearing of ceremonial vestments - all based simply on tradition and not for any ecumenical or biblical reason whatsoever.

It's time many of these useless superstitions were given up in favour of plain common sense.

If they have a serious message to spread, why hide it behind arcane nonsense and bizarre rituals?

Runner,

The apparent arrogance is an artifact of Western Civilization believing that it owns Christianity for historical reasons. Although most in the culture are disinclined to get an intimate knowledge of the religion they feel like it is their property. Catholicism is subject to that type of thinking. Rather than individual arrogance I believe it is a cultural phenomenon.

Foxy,

”That's not logical.”

Of course not it is rhetorical. Collins gets accolades from the media because he is undermines the Church. He is well qualified to speak but Cardinal Pell would be better qualified. Yet the media will never describe Pell like than nor promote a book he writes.

I firmly doubt that a lack of priests forces people into fundamentalist Protestantism. That is an appallingly patronizing and insulting judgement of Latin American people who choose that branch of Christianity. It implies that they are simply after conveniently located worship rather than genuinely seeking the best way to walk with the Lord. However lack of priest often correlates with priests who display little affection for God’s Word. Priests who don’t take their religion seriously are hardly going to inspire people to follow them into the vocation and people seeking God will find a Church where God is welcome.

If you want a more credible evaluation of the issues in the Church try Michael Gilchrist’s Lost. You won’t find the book lauded by the media but Mr Gilchrist is a Catholic looking for solutions and his theories are backed up with research.

Bishop Robinson was recently refused permission to speak at Church venues by a US Archbishop because he is so hostile toward Christ and the Church. They didn’t want the faithful to think he was a regular Catholic Bishop who actually subscribed to the religion. Likewise the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference have issued a statement that he doesn’t understand teaching about the authority of Christ and the Church. The man is extremely secularized. He doesn’t accept the Biblical Jesus nor even his own denomination. It speaks volumes about Collin’s attitude toward the Church that he should quote Robinson.

Dear mjpb,

Have you actually read Paul Collins' book?

I haven't finished it, but the message
that I'm getting from it is - "Keep
hope alive."

As Geraldine Doogue writes in the foreword,
"It is probably Paul Collins' most
constructive book yet... He issues a profound
invitation to fellow Australian Catholics
to seriously evaluate the role of faith in our
lives. He begs us for new energy, to believe the
Church is worth our best renewed effort..."

And, as Collins himself says:
"...Catholicism has shown a great ability to survive
crises of all sorts, including its self-inflicted
problems and stupidity. The paradox is that while
tearing our hair out in frustration, many of us
have stayed, simply because we feel at home in a
church that is such a failed, scarred and sinful
institution. This is why I have always found church
history so helpful: not only does it show the church's
high points, but also reveals the depths to which it has sunk
and still survived..."

I agree with Collins, it's not as though well-informed
Catholics have not been aware of all of these issues
for many years.

I am still optimistic that we are at a turning point and
that the Church will recover, that serious change is
a possibility.

But in order for that to happen - we need to hear voices like
Paul Collins - and not merely accept the legalistic wooden cadence
from men like Geroge Pell - who only preach
the rhetoric of exclusion from past teachings.

My apologies, for the typo.
I meant to type - George Pell.

Sorry.