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The Forum > General Discussion > Does John Howard's $90M for School Chaplaincy amount to Establishment of Religion?

Does John Howard's $90M for School Chaplaincy amount to Establishment of Religion?

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Does John Howard's $90M for School Chaplaincy Amount to Establishment of Religion?

Section 116 of the Constitution states, amongst other things, that "The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, .....". Section 116 was the subject of a proposed alteration as recently as the 1988 referenda. That proposal was rejected, along with others, with a record low 'Yes' vote. The content of Section 116 has thus been relatively recently the subject of community focus and effective re-affirmation.

One of the characteristics of a religion being 'established' is that it is financially supported with the aid of the power of taxation. On the assumption that the proposed $90M is to come from public funds and not some 'slush' fund, it would appear that it would at some stage have to be the subject of a law appropriating funds from the general revenues of the Commonwealth, and thus run foul of the Constitutional prohibition. If the Constitution is ignored in this respect, can the Australian community expect to see, for example, radical Islamic clerics being supported with taxpayers funds via this mechanism? Equally, could the community expect to see that part of the Catholic flock that has opted out of the Catholic education system being pursued by publicly funded ecclesiastical police in the public school system? Has this been thought through in the Parliament? Yea, and verily, hath it even been the subject of Parliamentary debate?

It is worth noting the use of the word 'chaplaincy' in the reporting of the proposal. One can only assume that its use is intended to imply some sort of similarity to chaplaincy in the armed forces. It is appropriate to note that those serving in that capacity serve as members of the forces, subject to command and military discipline and having sworn the oath. You know, the one specified and effectively re-affirmed in 1999 that all the parliamentarians are required to swear, that [they] "will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, Her heirs and successors according to law." You know, the real oath.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Monday, 30 October 2006 7:21:46 AM
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It seems the non religous people have more dogmatic beliefs than many religous people. Maybe we should stop their funding also! JOhn HOward is smart enough to know that values without God is valueless.
Posted by runner, Monday, 30 October 2006 1:10:44 PM
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The figures just don't stack up. There are 9623 schools in Australia. So less than half will get the $20,000 "grant" for a chaplain. If all schools put in for the grant it would cost $192,460,000.

Another loopy scheme where the funds will never be spent, but the target audience will feel good, I think it is called politics.

The minimum wage is over $26,000 so these "chaplains" would be part time enthusiastic amateurs.

What is the federal education minister doing playing with pet projects instead of providing funds where they are really needed.
Posted by Steve Madden, Monday, 30 October 2006 3:17:11 PM
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This is not a matter of who holds a religious belief and who doesn't. I'm sure that many religious people would feel concerned if they found that their child was being counselled by a person with different religious beliefs to their own.

I realise that many people can act in a responsible manner and give spiritually neutral advice, regardless of their own religious beliefs. But many would find it virtually impossible to avoid putting their own slant on things. And many would feel that it was their duty to preach their own beliefs and see the chance to do so as literally a God given opportunity.

My children are all adult, so this situation is hypothetical for me. But I would hate to think that my children were being taught [in the guise of being counselled]:
That homosexuality was an optional choice and inherently sinful.
That abortion was murder.
That contraception was sinful.
That the Bible had to be taken literally and the earth was only a few thousand years old.
That women were instruments of the devil and were at fault if they were sexually assaulted.

And of course many other opinions which are, to me, either unproven, harmful, discriminatory or downright ridiculous. Other people may have different ideas of what they would be horrified at their children being taught, but the same principle applies.

We supposedly have freedom of religion in Australia and probably dozens of legally recognised religious organisations. In fairness to all [and possibly to avoid legal action by those organisations whose adherents are not chosen as counsellors] we would have to give equal opportunity to [for example]:

Muslims.
Hindus.
Jehovah's Witnesses.
Scientologists.
Christian Scientists.
Wiccans.
Mormons.
Spiritualists.
Hillsong.
Exclusive Brethren.

OK, I realise that the Exclusive Brethren are not likely to want to avail themselves of such an opportunity, but they could, couldn't they?
Posted by Rex, Monday, 30 October 2006 3:31:51 PM
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As official lick-spittle to the U.S.A., it is Australia’s duty to bring religion to the forefront of life, then we too can have the highest crime rate, the most drug addicts, the highest murder rate, vast corruption and all the other delights enjoyed by highly religious societies. We will also then be able to persecute minorities, stone adulterers and homos to death and…. Oh I don’t know but it will all be very moral and fine because the bible and the koran say it is and they are the words of god and he is all good and speaking through his chaplains, who will be the first person a pregnant teenage girl will go to for compassionate and sensible advice, or a bullied gay boy on the point of suicide – don’t you reckon?
And of course it will be like in Queensland where the kid's parents have to write a letter saying why they don’t want their child to take an hour out of school to be indoctrinated – but most parents are too busy, and usually the few kids who dare to opt out get punished and ostracised by the teachers so it’s not fun and nothing is learned.
I only hope that there will be such a rush for posts by different religions, that they will begin warring – as is their wont, and they’ll all murder each other.
I note Howard didn’t suggest Atheists or Humanists be invited – they are the font of all human morality, not irrational people who reckon there’s a superman in the sky who knows all sees all hears all and stuffs us up all the time.
Posted by ybgirp, Monday, 30 October 2006 5:02:32 PM
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It seems like without this injection of funding many parents are deserting the pagan religion of humanism that teaches we can have sex without boundaries(as long as u shove a condom on), we somehow evolved from apes (or have they stopped teaching this nonsense yet?) and that we are gods and can make up our own morality.

If people were not concerned about the godless values taught over the last 20 years that have resulted in increases in teen pregnancy, abortion and suicide then this issue would not be a vote winner
Posted by runner, Monday, 30 October 2006 6:05:22 PM
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