It is disturbing that figures show approximately three times as many suicides occur amongst children of Vietnam Veterans in comparison to the general Australian population.
(www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/mvv-svvc/index.html).

As the daugher of a Vietnam Veteran, an only child, born in 1970, I would love to talk to any other Vietnam Vet children who are interested in beginning an online chat forum as there does not appear to be any currently avaiable. I would also be interested to hear from anyone thinking of participating in the families of Vietnam Veteran's national health survey which is to be conducted in the near future over eight years.

so what is your theory on the suicides?

1. Agent Orange etc

2. Anger at seeing dad so horifically teated by his own people and government? especially being conscripted to fight in a pointless war without even having the right to VOTE for PigIron Bob on the National Service Act

3. whininess

Forgive me, I am new to this but thanks for the responses. I realise there was a long, similar discussion in 2005/06 concerning issues surrounding the children of Vietnam veterans, however, at the age of 37, I am apparently no longer considered at risk by the Dept of Veteran's Affairs and that is the reason I would like to contact others.

In answer to Divorce Doctor: I have many theories on the suicides. I personally believe there is an element of nature and nurture involved (that is, genetic vs. environmental factors in the home). I believe living with someone with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), particularly a role model such as your father, creates a high level of anxiety and eventual inability to deal with, and adjust to life's daily pressures. The small things most people find insignificant, appear insurmountable at times and a feeling of failure and lack of connectedness to others leads to depression and in extreme cases, suicide. As an only child, my dad was controlling and domineering, unable to relate to me (particularly as a girl), nor interact socially. Although my dad never resorted to alcohol or violence, his mental, brainwashing abuse was in many respects, more hurtful and damaging to our family than physical abuse. As an adult, I find I cannot sustain relationships, I am quick tempered and controlling, regimental in my expectations and organisation of everyone and everything and suffer from depression, insomnia and severe anxiety.

AS for Agent Orange, my dad is now 62 and has been recently diagnosed with PRostate Cancer. This is apparently quite common amongst Vietnam Vets.

I love my dad and am terribly proud of him. He was spat on when he got off the plane on Australian soil and called baby killer like all the rest. He threw all his medals in the bin. Like many other Vets, he is a staunch Labour supporter, but looking back in history, it is not hard to see why.

Unfortunately, it seems likely many of the troops returning from Iraq will no doubt suffer PTSD. The cycle will therefore continue

Dear Kathmandu,

You're a very brave lady, and I admire you tremenduously.

Thank you for being so open and honest
and sharing with us on the Forum,
what must be very painful for you.

I wish you all the happiness in the world.
I'm sure that your father's pain is helped
by your love for him. Having an understanding
daughter would mean a great deal.

My cousin, a doctor, went to Vietnam. To this day he refuses
to discuss what he lived through. Vietnam is a subject that is simply
'off limits,' with him.

A friend's brother ended up having a complete mental break down
after his experience in Vietnam. He died a few years ago.

I don't know Kath, whether this website would be of interest to you,
but I'll give it just in case:

http://www.nrdgp.org.au/projects/mentalhealth/mentalhealt2958.html

Kathmandu,

let me deal with the easier Agent Orange [AO] question first

My ex Father in Law was assist commiss for War Service Homes back in 1970s [that was before we sucked the Americam ars* and called return soldiers veterans]

I was best mates with his boss the commiss Keith Medry who was involved in many "junkets" to USA to report on AO effects and he told me things after a few beers he was never meant to tell.

this was the Apoc Now Kurtz situation of "it seemed Govt did not dig what he had to say and his reports were classified"

he was a most honest man and the govt force upon him to simply take the junkets and shut up [like he was Barry Williams of Lonely Fathers] simply killed him via heart attack

but I can tell you [what he told me] that our soldiers WERE in effect given a death sentence as sure as were those at Woomera with the atomic bomb experiments in 1950s

more to follow

Hi there KATHMANDU...

I'm unable to assist you with respect to what specific medical conditions were occasioned to the children of Vietnam Vets., post the conclusion of the Vietnam War.

My only suggestion I'm afraid, is that you contact the VVCS (Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service) in the capital city of your state.

They will most definitely provide you with any assistance they can. In fact, it's an entitlement for the immediate family of veterans to receive this professional assistance.

Apropos your Dad consigning his 'gongs' to the garbage can - this is sadly, a fairly common event with some veterans. I'm a veteran, and I've had thoughts along the same lines too.

Just today, I attended the DVA Office in the city, and had to wait while two Asian gentleman (possibly Vietnamese) were attended to by staff, ahead of me.

For a moment, I saw R E D, almost totally consummed with resentment and anger ! Apparently, veterans of wars that Australians were involved, ARE entitled to some LIMITED benefits from DVA too ?

Anyway, just for that brief moment, I nearly lost it.....believe me ! I'm NOT a raciest, but I am a Veteran, and that particular spectacle of these two harmless Vietnamese gentlemen apparently accessing our/my DVA benefits, and who have the temerity to actually trespass upon the venerated interior of a DVA facility, precipitately, regressed me back 40 odd years. As I say, I very nearly lost it !!

Interestingly, I did a bit over 28 years with the coppers too, after my military service. In that particular vocation, we're supposed to be reasoned and rational. Yeah....?

My impressions, perceptions, and conclusions, of those two Asian gentleman, were absolutely unreasonable, prejudiced and irrational!

Oh yes KATHMANDU lamentably, I've had to attended the VVCS on many many occasions in the distant and recent past.

"accessing our/my DVA benefits, and who have the temerity to actually trespass upon the venerated interior of a DVA facility, precipitately, regressed me back 40 odd years."

With all due respect o sung wu, Australia trespassed on Vietnamese territory, invaded their country and killed their people. Show some goddamned respect. Vietnamese, despite all the war crimes against them have treated Australian visitors very well overseas.

Thank you, Foxy, for your uplifting response to my email of 'whininess'. I cant tell you how much it meant to me. The website is very helpful and informative - thank you so much. As you mentioned about your cousin, my dad also refuses to talk about Vietnam to this day, although I know he was a front line Tunnel Rat and experienced the Tet Offensive. It seems many of the soldiers who saw a 'lot of action' over there are the quiet ones. Dad is on Government approved medication to help him sleep and cope with stress and was granted a full TPI 6 years ago when he was aged just 56.

Dear Kathmandu

The defoliant spraying of Vietnam was a crime against humanity. At least one manufacturer, Monsanto, was aware of the human health impacts as early as the ‘60s but continued to supply the US military with this chemical.

The relationship between government authorities and corporate human rights abusers is a significant and sometimes confusing issue. Governments cannot legally authorize corporations to violate human rights, but corporations often act as if government’s encouragement will suffice.

However, depleted uranium (DU) weaponry has been used against Iraq for the first time in the history of recent wars by concealment, denial and misleading information released by the Pentagon about the quantities, characteristics and the areas in Iraq, in which these weapons have been used.

Accordingly millions of Iraqis have received higher doses of radioactivity than ordinary background levels. As a result a multi-fold increase of low level radiation exposure related diseases have been registered since 1995. Documents now reveal an increase of children’s leukemia, congenital malformations, breast cancer etc.

Returning to the issue, I advise that man-made organochlorine substances such as Agent Orange are neurotoxins, potential human carcinogens, and endocrine disruptors. Dioxins are reported to be very potent teratogens and one need only witness the heinous deformities in some Vietnamese children.

Man-made organochlorines are bioaccumulative, have invaded the entire food chain and subsequent generations (at least in Vietnam) will continue to be afflicted. Our allied troops were "unwittingly" used as cannon fodder since organochlorines are transboundary and can travel for thousands of kilometres.

Researchers have written on the neurotoxic effect of dioxins in the human brain and suicide amongst victims are reported to be higher than the norm, even amongst farmers who have used these chemicals.

That this nation elects governments who continue to support conflicts where we and our allies commit chemical and radioactive warfare on the enemy and allies alike, is to our shame when we ("the good men") say nothing.

Best wishes in your endeavours Kathmandu and good health and happiness to our Vietnam vets.

Good to see your return to OLO, o sung wu.

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Monsanto-Coverup-Dioxin-USEPA15nov90.htm

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0401/pjg33.html

3. whininess

what IS that of which you speak, steel?

why did you add it to my list?

First of all I would like to say thank you all for your information and support. I am so grateful for the interest and indepth comments you have all given - it makes me feel as though the outcomes the Vietnam War have produced for family members in my situation are at least recognised by some fellow Aussies! I have very very down days where I dont see the need to be around but then remind myself how bad it must be for my dad and how strong he must be to stand it all day in and day out. I am my father's daughter, and proud of it, and this alone has prevented me from ending it on many occasions. I would love to hear from any other Vet children in the same position if you are out there - I am storing all information I have been given and plan to use it in the future to help others. I used to feel such inner turmoil and anger towards governments who felt it was ok to draw my dad's birthdate out of a lotto draw and send him off for a death sentence in Vietnam but now I feel nothing, just emptiness and resignation, and that scares me the most as I watch my dad, a strong, intelligent man, deteriorate year after year to nothing before my eyes. All I ask is Why was it my dad? Why not someone elses? Why were Australians involved at all? At this point, I dont care about Agent Orange, I just care about surviving from one day to the next.

OK so to answer my post it is not item 1 but item 2

I am glad to see you [and other children] have come to grips and that there ARE govt organisations to help

but notice how the thread drifted off to the actual soldiers [now called veterens] who actually went to Vietnam, ie the 25% [who also have a govt dept]

but 75% of those like me who had no chance in the world [except for bribery] to get to Vietnam for the required 7 days have NOT ONE THING for the 2 years of incarceration, curtailment of liberty, loss of income and opportunity and boredom

what is more we are NOT veterans so dont even get to DVA database, so we dont even get old age pension at 60

I did a video for Kevin '07, not sure if he is listening

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dOBZcN-j1KM

Hi there D. DOCTOR...

After reading several of your threads, it would appear that you're quite bitter, having first being conscripted for two years, you didn't actually get the opportunity to serve in Vietnam ? I hope that I've not misunderstood your post ?

Anyway, I guess some might consider that you were indeed very lucky. I suppose it's the way you look at it really.

Further, you also alluded to the fact that by missing out on service in South Vietnam, you were necessarily precluded from applying for the normal DVA War Service benefits, as a subsequent general entitlement.

I think I know where you're coming from, but I could only suggest that there would be many blokes that I served with would forsake and abandon, without any hesitation whatsoever, all the gongs, DVA benefits, and 'fanfare' associated with being a bona fide Vet. Just to be in a position similar to yours.

To be able to hold down a decent job, maintain an 'ordinary' happy family life, possess reasonable physical and mental health, have and cultivate normal friendships et al.

I suppose DOC., at the end of the day, it's all a matter of one's perception and primacy in life.

Take it easy old friend.

Kathmandu>"I used to feel such inner turmoil an my dad's birthdate out of a lotto draw and send him off for a death sentence in Vietnam but now I feel nothing, just emptiness and resignation"

Maybe you could take some heart that there would probably be open revolt if governments tried to pull something like that again, especially with feminists deliberately not seeking equality in all areas.

D Doctor>"what IS that of which you speak, steel?

why did you add it to my list?"

It is a half-hearted comment. It was speculation that some people may be inclined to blame their problems on something that happened to their father, when it could be another cause for which they might be able to do something about.

to answer both of you

the OFFICIAL Army figures said you had more chance as a soldier of being killed on the road in Oz than in Vietnam

OK, to understand that stat you have to understand that eg RAMAEE apprentices got moved to Moorebank as kids, were very lonely, spent whole weekend driving back to Balcome etc and many killed themselves on the road

IF I bribed my way to Vietnam in RAMEME [or whatever it was] and that was $500 in those days, then I was in a base camp in Nam with surfing and drugs and NO CHANCE of being killed

why do you think the regulars told us "over my dead body baga*se, I have been waiting 15 years for my War Service Loan and no way will you take that from me"

same as now, Nam was all about spin

only we knew the truth, but Nam was the War of the War Service Home as far as Oz was concerned

Hi again D. DOCTOR...

I'm sorry, with respect, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Apropos, bribes of $500 ? More chance of being killed on the roads in Australia than in 'Nam' ? Obviously, you appear to harbour many preconceived notions of the efficacious of the entire War in South Vietnam.

D.DOCTOR, I don't know what you're angry about, or why you seem so rancorous and resentful towards Vietnam Veterans. However, I don't believe I can contribute anything more constructive to this discussion. Anything that is, which may assist in enlightening you with respect to your opinions and preconceptions, in this matter.

Just for the record - I was a Regular and a volunteer.

Good luck to you old friend.

well oh song wu I am merely "telling it as it was"

there is no reason for me to embellish anything in this horrible example of discrimination

I mean even a total ars*hole like Howard simply said "no" when asked about conscription for Iraq [Kak kak], and that was with voting age at 18, not 21

IF you were voluteer then good for you mate. You were obviously enticed by the adverts for the War Service Home Loan at 3% as were all the regulars

road accident stats? - from the Army itself mate

bribery? - I was there mate and that was asking price to jump the queue [about 10 grand in today's money but in todays money home loan was 300 grand so conscripts paid the bribe]

The HELL was being conscripted - NOT going to Nam

THAT was the good fortune

but you are welcome to keep to the spin if it makes you feel warm & cuddly

Kathmandu

"As an only child, my dad was controlling and domineering, unable to relate to me (particularly as a girl), nor interact socially....As an adult, I find I cannot sustain relationships, I am quick tempered and controlling, regimental in my expectations and organisation of everyone and everything and suffer from depression, insomnia and severe anxiety."

The fact that you and your father share character traits and suffer many of the same problems is as much likely to be genetic as it is environmental. The Vietnam experience has no doubt compounded your father's problems but it may not be the only contributor.

The following website was a useful starting point for me in overcoming problems relating to depression, insomnia and anxiety and may be of use to you too. http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/ Finding a good naturopath was also critical.

Hi there BRONWYN...

I totally support your assertion that the many difficulties and impediments associated with the successful interaction between the father and his siblings, can be as much genetic as environmental.

I know of some Vets who tend to blame all their misfortunes (both physical, mental and emotional health) on their service in Vietnam.
From 'falling arches' to dandruff? Far be it for me to say their claims are not caused by their war service! Though I reckon some do draw a pretty long bow, nevertheless.

That aside BRONWYN, your thread was most pragmatic, rational and appropriate in my humble opinion. Though the dispair and sadness expressed by KATHMANDU is palpable, whatever the reasons are.

o sung wu, I am a most Politically incorrect person, but I will be PC and say that in order to understand better your replies could you please "align" yourself

the screen name is not Bazza McKenzie but it may not be your name [mine is not]

I think you said you were "involved" in Nam and that you were not conscripted

but were you on Oz side, South Viet side, N Viet side or other??

did you get Oz War Service Loan?

thanks

o sung wu is probably a veteran who looks down upon anyone who didn't actually get sent overseas. i don't think he quite understands the fate that befell those who were conscripted, but not assigned.

well yes, and seems he has gone silent

Good evening to you D.DOC & STEEL...

You wish me to 'align myself' in order that you may better understand my thread/s ? Myself, I'm a pretty ordinary bloke really. At a push I might even describe myself as rather unremarkable, even somewhat banal.

I'm an Aussie, served in the Regular Army, in most South East Asian postings including, Malaysia, Borneo and South Vietnam.

To preserve my anonymity, like most folk who enjoy posting 'threads', I use a nom de plume (o sung wu) which believe it or not does have a strong connection to an event involving moi, in Sth East Asia.

As a veteran, I have availed myself of the War Service Home Loan Scheme, which was raised from $15,000 to $25,000, and administered and funded by the Westpac Bank on behalf of the Defence Forces Home Loan Service/Scheme ? The interest rate was reasonably low (7.5%)and was pegged. Notwithstanding the normal movement of fiscal rates in the market. My memory is relatively poor now, so I can't be sure or precise with respect to all the more finite details of the scheme, unfortunately.

STEEL...I remember well your persistent assertions of massacres allegedly committed by troops (US) in South Vietnam. You quoted much written material by those who claim they have empirical evidence that these crimes did in fact, happen.

I sincerely trust I've answered your questions satisfactorily gentleman. Oh, before I forget...I've NEVER EVER looked down on any soldier, irrespective of where he or she served !

A true story...I had occasion to speak with a Rwandan Veteran recently. He did four months in country, as a UN (Aussie Army) Peace Keeper. He told me, he NEVER fired a shot in anger, the entire time they were there. Yet he and his mates had to idly standby and witness thousands of men, women and children slaughtered, right before their eyes !! Yet, they could do absolutely nothing!

I just couldn't imagine that - and yes, he's entitled to the War Service Home loan. Provided he has sufficient sanity left, to apply for it.

I think war service homes were disbanded some 30 years ago

soldiers now just get $125 per day extra tax free

that is why the Child Support Agency blood sucking lawyers target them, as I explain in my book