Steel,

I had a great laugh reading your posts. I must say that to be called tendentious by someone who, without fail, takes the socialist/PC approach to every issue, was particularly amusing. The ignorant part I’ll take on the chin for arguing with you in the first place.

For starters, I never said “ASIO can not ever be criticised or questioned, unless you are part of the organisation AND privy to the details of their operations.”

Your reference to “the enemy within”, relates to issues more than 30 years, up to 60 years, ago. They aren’t evidence of any incapacity now. And funnily enough, ASIO don’t do PR, and when they have a success they don’t discuss whether they are going to let Steel from OLO in on the secret. So in essence, you are in no position AT ALL, to judge ASIO.

The intelligence arms of the Australian gov’t include, ASIS, the ONA, DIO, DSD, DIGO and ASIO. Unless you know who it was that actually gathered the intelligence/made the assessment originally how can you blame ASIO? You don’t have a clue what ASIO’s advice to gov’t was. It is just as likely the ONA green lighted the intelligence on WMD’s. It’s even possible that the Gov’t ignored advice from intelligence completely, do you know?

Although you clearly misunderstand this, ASIO are the DOMESTIC spy organization responsible for security/intelligence INSIDE Australia. The WMD information would originally have come from the US, or Britain; not ASIO, who do not collect overseas intelligence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Security_Intelligence_Organisation
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/27/1035683305213.html

>>” I have read various news reports various sources … and they paint a much more realistic picture. I would expect leaders to have that kind of information awareness.”

1. Please do tell me what “non-mainstream” NEWS you are talking about?
2. It is beyond belief that you would suggest you have superior “information awareness” because you read the “non-mainstream” news. This is so ridiculous I’m still ROFLMAO.
3. I didn’t attack greens/socialists specifically I also included blogs and internet news sites. Is your non-mainstream NEWS not covered by one of these four areas?

TBC,

I’m assuming you are referring to the ICH article.

In this case, you respond to my discussion with someone else and take issue with one of the 10 points I make in the post. You then post a rebuttal two days later to that one point, which I must say I’m only reading for the first time today, and then have the gall to suggest that you corrected me. You absolute @rse.

But let me deal with the substance of your laughable”allegation”.

I said “Iran has involved itself directly in the insurgency in Iraq by providing training and weapons to Shiite terrorists."

Of the 1972 foreigners arrested as insurgents between May 2005 and May 2006, 1577 or 80% were from Iran. See “The Iran Threat” Alireza Jafarzadeh. This book is adapted as an authoritative textbook by major universities such as Georgetown University. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alireza_Jafarzadeh

For information regarding Iran’s involvement in Iraq,
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/world/middleeast/11cnd-weapons.html
http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1692347&page=1
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/23/AR2006032301658.html
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2008/05/whats-behind-iraq-iran-weapons.html
http://www.iranfocus.com/en/iraq/iran-spends-2.5b-on-activities-in-iraq-exiles-say.html

But in particular read “Eight Lives Down” for a brilliant account of a British counter-terrorist bomb disposal expert and his experiences with Iranian sourced weaponry and knowhow. http://www.randomhouse.com.au/Books/Default.aspx?Page=Book&ID=9780593058657

In rebuttal you provided a quote for an article on ICH,

The article refers to one single weapons find by the Iraqi Army. The article itself is a press release from the Campaign against Military Intervention in Iran. CASMII is a campaign organization with the purpose of opposing sanctions, foreign state interference and military intervention in Iran. CASMII was formed by a group of Iranian academics. Sounds like an independent organization?? ??

In all likelihood, however, I could place an 82mm mortar shell, with “Made in Iran” stamped on it, under your nose and you wouldn’t believe it. And Iran isn’t so stupid that they are trying to advertise to the world that they are providing the insurgents with weapons and money. They also provide training and knowhow from IRGC, Qods Force and their Hezbollah proxies.

So, if you don’t mind, could you please show me where/how you corrected me? Don’t tell me, you’re going to change the subject again!! !!

I can understand how the left leaning swill humpers like to denigrate the USA and NATO at every opportunity.

Lets face it, USA, most successful country in the world, the one which came to Europe’s aid in WWI, WWII and held the line against the Stalinists for 40 years until the Evil Empire collapsed into the stink of its own effluent.

NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation was the principle bulwark of combined defence against Communist expansionist dreams in Europe post WWII and currently the club which the now liberated old Soviet satellites like Poland, Hungary etc. are queuing up to join.

Without USA and NATO, the Red Army would have kept walking west from Hungary after they marched in against the uprising in 1956.

We could ask too what is the difference between NATO and UN
Well, NATO has goals and objectives, it achieves things, it is an association of merit, which gives those countries who are members something back for their buck.

The UN does nothing, except offer a forum to the incompetent from where they vilify the able nations of the world.

I wonder how many of the self righteous and critical nations of USA/NATO would actually be able to pay for their accommodation bills if it were not for the financial income derived from US charity and aid?

As for Piliger, he is long past his use-bye date but being a little loopey is quite fashionable in some circles.

Col Rouge,

>>"I wonder how many of the self righteous and critical nations of USA/NATO would actually be able to pay for their accommodation bills if it were not for the financial income derived from US charity and aid?"

You left out the fact that the left leaning, "wall to wall welfare" states of Europe, that many of the soft-lefties love, were able to pay for their much praised social programs because the US/NATO covered for their defence requirements during the cold war, thus freeing up billions of dollars.

PaulL.>"I must say that to be called tendentious by someone who, without fail, takes the socialist/PC approach to every issue"

here you go again...flat out baldness... let me repeat some of your own recent words:

PaulL.>"It truly does take a village to raise a child."
PaulL.>"however we need to balance this with the more important responsibility of protecting children."
PaulL>"...is more important to protect ...the child."

PaulL>"We also need ANZAC day to let those who have stood tall in our nations’ service know that we remember and value their sacrifice, that they are part of us and have done nothing wrong"

PaulL>"the general community understands that the soldiers who fight Australias wars are us. They are not some obscure group, they are our fathers, brothers, sons and now, mothers daughters and sisters."

Socialist? Check.
PC? Check.

Your self delusion never ends. Your endless criticism of the "left" is so partisan it's sickening but i think in your case it is some kind of self-affirmation, which is sad.

paulL>"So in essence, you are in no position AT ALL, to judge ASIO."

You reassert this in even bolder terms. Well sad to make you look like a fool (yet again):

Besides ignoring JRoche's three warnings and offers of information:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22863386-28737,00.html

French 'really annoyed' at Australian blunders in Brigitte case
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/11/1076388419725.html

ASIO mole leaked secrets for 15 years: report
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/11/01/1099262774657.html

ASIO conduct was grossly improper: judge
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/11/12/1194766590209.html

ASIO accused of 'doctoring' Habib notes
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22862646-2,00.html

AFP, ASIO give public a drip feed
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/05/28/11692_editorial-news.html

Enemy may have penetrated ASIO: Justice Robert Hope report
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23768232-5001561,00.html

"It is extraordinary that it should be necessary for me to make this point. What I am really saying is that ASIO should act like a real intelligence agency.''-Justice Hope

So Iranians were found in Iraq? That's little more than coincidence nor substantial. Were they agents of Iran or private citizens defending their 'brothers'? Devout Christian citizens would leap to the defence of a neighbouring Christian nation in such a situation.

Now how many CIA government *AGENTS* do you think are in Iraq and various other countries? For example, take the 1953 overthrow of the Democratic government of Iran ...by the USA, to be replaced with a dictator. Whining about Iran is delusional, since they have more reason to be in the country than one from a different continent.

1-3.These are older than the link I provided and is merely an example of the propaganda, revealed as such by the report.
4.Now a recent one. But one that is extremely disingenuous, since it's about one. single. rocket. There is cause for great suspicion in the source of the claim to. It could easily (and plausibly) have been trafficked or fabricated as a propaganda weapon.
5.This one's funny...the source:"the exiled opposition National Council for Resistance in Iran said" Sounds like a 'Curveball' type situation. These groups are often supported by foreign 'governments' with "aid money".

To show how ridiculous your position is, look how many weapons the USA has mysteriously lost to the streets of Iraq to be used by all who have cause (from my recent link): "In contrast, the Pentagon in August 2007 admitted that it had lost track of a third of the weapons distributed to the Iraqi security forces in 2004/2005. The 190,000 assault rifles and pistols roam free in Iraqi streets today."

In short you've posted a list of propaganda that was already revealed to be anomolous by my very recent link.

Feds Probe Blackwater Weapons Smuggling
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/09/21/national/w174703D61.DTL

http://zenhuber.blogspot.com/2007/02/iran-nyt-repeats-history-wapo-rewrites.html

British Find No Evidence Of Arms Traffic From Iran
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/03/AR2006100301577_pf.html

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/BigBusiness.asp#Itdoesnotseemtomatterwhoarmsaresoldto
"the “War on Terror” has seen the U.S. selling weapons or training to almost 90% of the countries it has identified as harboring terrorists"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/migrationtemp/1532554/US-is-only-country-to-oppose-UN-arms-trade-treaty.html
"America is the only country to have voted against a proposed United Nations treaty aimed at controlling international arms sales."