Foxy, no you are not wrong. In a perfect world we would all live as we choose (while first doing no harm) without stigmas. But the reality is that we do not live in a vaccum and with our choices comes consequences or repercussions. The idea that we can have it all is a myth, sometimes something has to be sacrificed so we can have something else or have something we think we want more. Anyway I digress a bit.

There are no right or wrong answers because the terms femininity or masculinity mean different things to different people. As RObert said he has seen men ridiculed for raising issues like DV. Women who are seen by some as being too powerful or assertive ("aggressive") as "b**ll busters" etc. Some men feel emasculated when working for a female boss no matter how consultative or egalitarian she might be. Some women I know don't cope well with female bosses either - not sure why - maybe it is the idea of competition. I don't know.

There can never be true equality between the sexes (or between people for that matter) as we are not the same. What societies can endeavour to achieve, if they choose, is to establish equality of access to opportunity and sharing of responsibilities regardless of gender. And the framework that enables families, couples, singles etal to be able to choose a lifestyle that suits their particular circumstances and goals.

Runner
You ask a difficult and interesting question regarding reproductive rights. I understand it as Vanilla has restated it in her post - unless we have misunderstood your meaning.

My thinking would be in the case of pregnancy the ongoing care of the baby would be the responsibility of both parents, this being in the best interests of the child (financially and practically). It does raise more questions about responsibility for contraception but even the best laid plans can go wrong.

In the case of an unwanted pregnancy the current practice is that it is a woman's right to choose because it is her body. BUT you raise an important issue about the right of a man to choose to be a parent when the woman might choose otherwise. This is a difficult dilemma and raises other issues like the right to control your own body. That same right should also prevent someone being forced into circumcision or forced into having sex against their will etc. Equally I can empathise with a man who might want to take on the role of parent but may not be permitted to do so. Lots of things come down to weighing up rights on a scale of commonly accepted principles where one right might override another in certain circumstances. Not always an easy choice.

"So how do we all begin to feel equal, and comfortable in accepting equal responsibility, without feeling insecure about being too feminine, or not enough so."

Runner, your question fits in with what I was asking. Is femininity or masculinity defined by what we do or how we behave or how we look? Does gender equality at some level mean some of our more traditional perceptions of femininity and masculinity have to evolve? Is this a good or bad thing or neutral?

Pelican, I suspect runner won't countenance abortions on any terms, though runner, if I'm wrong, I'd be fascinated to hear what constitutes an acceptable abortion.

To wade into this thread (I'd been staying away for similar reasons to those CJ put forward earlier), from my perspective, I can only wholeheartedly endorse the notion that successful couples are capable of challenging one another intellectually. In fact, the most attractive women I know and those I tend to pursue are the ones that are smarter than I am.
I don't know how any man with a brain in his head could prefer having a submissive, empty-headed 1950s (stereotype) style housewife.

I don't accept it at all reasonable that a man could have a problem working for a woman, unless said woman didn't know what she was doing, in which case it's an issue of experience or intelligence, not gender. If your boss is a good one, to hell with gender.

There will be instances where a woman is unlikely to be experienced - certain trades, for instance. However, if a woman has risen to a position of authority in such a field, chances are she's had to be even better than a male equivalent to get there.

Though I guess I'd be annoyed if a female boss who was clearly incompetent, was only there by dint of her gender. I've been fortunate to have good employers, so I guess I can't really comment there.

Frankly, I don't think I'd be at all interested in a woman who didn't have some kind of feminist streak in her. Of course it's attractive. Feminism is so broad, that I think of it as a woman who is willing to stick up for themselves - which goes hand in hand with a certain level of self-confidence and intelligence. It's only when it becomes a tool for bullying, that it becomes a problem. So my answer to the thread question, is a resounding 'of course.'

Vanilla: “That's really interesting. Do you mean should men get a say if women want to have an abortion?”

No that’s not what I mean. Neither gender should have power over the other in forcing their sexual partners into unwanted or incompetent parenting - financial, social, emotional, or whatever. Men’s parenting roles should be treated with equal respect and allowed similar rights, and unless we want a society of drones, we must resist deeming fatherhood inconsequential. But if that is what we really DO want after all, then let’s at least have some decency to accept common responsibility and stop victimising individuals who are given no say in the matter.

Pelican: “Runner
You ask a difficult and interesting question regarding reproductive rights. I understand it as Vanilla has restated it in her post - unless we have misunderstood your meaning.”

Yes, thanks to Vanilla for rephrasing it, and yes, that is what I meant. Difficult question I know, but it is not likely to be resolved by talking about who has responsibility for contraception, who instigates sexual contact, or has more fun participating.

I'm not sure that we are actually just talking about feminism here.

Yes, o.k. the original question was asked in terms of feminism - but behind it maybe the issue is broader? Reading the posts here, isn't what most of us are objecting to simply being categorised at all? Our personal choices being compromised because of other peoples (societal?) expectations.?

I don't know about anyone elses head-space of course, but when I am considering a question I don't consciously consider that I am viewing it from a particular perspective. I get quite a jolt when someone comes back at me and says "Oh, all you....(insert whatever is applicable) think that".

I have repeated over and over again that I have no political, religious affiliations. I have never even applied the term feminist to myself! Yet I get told I am expressing a "soft left" or "anti-patriarchal" stance and judged/reacted to repeatedly along those lines. I/we are seen as representative of some narrow or limited paradigm instead of as individuals.

So maybe what we all want is an end to being categorised at all? Which then obviates the need/expectation for us to behave in certain ways. Gender is visual and a primary category and those of us called feminists object most to that, but aren't we objecting fundamentally about being forced?.. coerced?.. expected? to behave in any way that doesn't take into account our own uniqueness?

My personal ethos is composed of different and eclectic bits and pieces of knowledge, experiences etc.some in agreement and some in opposition to prevailing streams. Whether I prance around in Docs and baggies or in false eyelashes and silk lingerie I am still being true to who I am...why should my femininity or politics or religion have anything to do with that?

Oh damn. Its exam time..I'm probably either being stultifyingly obvious or not making sense at all. Forgive.

:) no problems Romany. I am starting to think I should not have started the whole thread as I am not sure I have expressed myself as well as I might hence other posters taking on board the most obvious interpretations. No excuses - my fault entirely.

Seeker
Apologies for mistaking your name with runner. It must be the 'er' ending.

"Difficult question I know, but it is not likely to be resolved by talking about who has responsibility for contraception, who instigates sexual contact, or has more fun participating."

Not sure I was attempting to solve the issue just discussing contraception as one of the associated factors (where did you got the other two aspects from??). But you will perceive it as you based on your own view and experience of life I guess.

What is your solution Seeker? How can we resolve these issues fairly and equitably?