If I was a religious person I think I would pray that BD's wife never reads that last comment he made. Oh, he thinks he was being "practical" (did he mean pragmatic?). Practical be damned!

From BDs lack of knowledge of grammar, spelling, syntax, vocabulary and knowledge itself, it is fairly obvious that his formal education was limited (that's not an indictment: the fact that he hasn't continued to educate himself after leaving school however, is). So I assume he doesn't actually appreciate that the way he actually framed his first sentence is insulting enough.

But to dis. his wife on a public and open forum now puts him, for me, beyond the Pale. Geez.

Thought: How many people constitute "enough"? 10? 100? 1000? And is that Christian people or does it include, oh I dunno, pagans and Muslims and gays and refugees?

And the "Isn't fair on the children" line is a croc. I had my life at Primary school made miserable because of who I was. One of my sons had his life made miserable because he was, in pre-pubescence, chubby. My other son was put through miseries because he was skinny. In all these scenarios it was factors we were helpless to change.

Hmmm. Seems "God is love". But its been proved beyond all doubt now that BD definitely isn't.

Romany: "From BDs lack of knowledge of grammar, spelling, syntax, vocabulary and knowledge itself..."

Hilarious. High five.

As for feminists and Christians, well, I'm a feminist and I have worked with both the Jesuits and the Brotherhood of St Lawrence to help asylum seekers. They were ace — compassionate, tenacious, deeply moral. I imagine anyone interested in social justice issues, would happily align themselves with these most excellent organisations. See here: http://www.bsl.org.au/main.asp and here: http://jesuit.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=58 for more information about their social justice programs.

Feminism, to me, means making sure people aren't restricted in their activities or passions or work or whatever because of their sex. Similarly, social justice is about removing discrimination and obstacles to... um... self-acutalisation (for want of a better word) from the lives of all sorts of people. These movements are about what you can do, not what you can't do.

Sure, sex workers are there voluntarily, but many feel like they had few other options. This is particularly true for street workers (rather than brothel workers). Go down William St in Darlinghurst one night and take a poll of how many hookers are poor, with drug habits, and a past full of physical and/or sexual violence.

What good would criminalising prostitution do for these women? In a week, the same women will be doing the same work — they'll just be risking their freedom and safety by doing it illegally. Their poverty and drug habits and violence-infused pasts would not disappear. Their kids would still end up in foster care.

Sure, some women choose to be sex workers. But some wish they could leave the industry and do something else. The latter don't need pity, criminalising or god, they need work, education, rehab, parenting help, mentoring and general friendship. We help them by not making them feel like sh!t because they a hooker. We help them by working with families at risk in the first instance, so that their daughters don't leave home at 15 and get into trouble.

Boazy, I'm not even sure what your point is. Earlier you said, "It seems that when there is an obvious detrimental movement in society, whether it be alchohol or devient sex, or sexual abuse, or drugs..
people come out of the woodwork and condemn any proposed legislative solution to such abuse. WAIT.. no, they simply propose to ALLOW it"

For a start, sexual abuse is illegal and so are drugs. I don't know what you mean by deviant sex, but if it is done without consent, it's illegal, and if it's done with consent, then it's not deviant to those involved. That leaves alcohol.

And right now I feel like a glass of it.

Dear Romany... you sounded there like a vulture just salivating and waiting for the poor old buffalo to die so you can jump on it and begin tearing out his entrails.

THINK! for once in your life. When a man or a woman contemplates marriage, there are a whole range of issues, both practical and long term which should be considered. I don't know how in the wide world you get 'dissing' my wife out of that? It's no reflection her in the slightest. Its simply a man telling one of the factors which should responsibly be considered when deciding the future course of his life.

Dear Vanilla, we will probably have to agree to disagree on some things.

"if it's done with consent, then it's not deviant to those involved." (echoes of postmodernism there?)

My position is that there are devient sexual practices irrespective of the mutual consent of the participants. It appears your position is at odds with that.

Devient sex.
a)Incest.
b)Same gender.
c)Bestiality.
d)70 yr old men and 16 yr old girls.
e)Sniffing seats where women have just sat :) (a rather contemporary one.. by the way.. how do you feel about Buzwell doing that?)

Now.. lets consider "consent".
This leads to 2 issues.
1/ Age difference
2/ Political pressure to change age of consent.

I won't add more, but it just goes on and on, one thing leading to another. I don't see any other way ahead than simply for competing forces and groups in society to just 'slug it out' at the Ballot Box, because other than this we would either have a Theocracy or a Secular Totalitarian state.. no ?

Boazy: "I won't add more..."

Oh good.

Oh, and Romany, yes, I can only back up the previous request, please, THINK! FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE! As it stands, Boazy is running intellectual rings around you. Can't you see that selling out the woman you claim to love above all other women simply because the neighbours are a bit sniffy about the match is no reflection on the quality or otherwise of that love? Frankly, your inability to grasp this simple point baffles both Boazy and myself.