Celivia:"The Australian government has used our tax money to fund churches and gave millions of tax dollars towards the Pope’s visit this year."

The last couple of Governments have chosen to use the organisational power of the churches to provide social welfare resources that should be the province of Government. The Howard Government did so as a cynical exercise in vote-buying and cost-shifting and it was so successful in gaining the support of the dim-witted religious sheep like Boaz and Gibo, et al, that it will continue for the foreseeable future. How do you reckon Labor would have fared in an election if they had stated a policy of disentanglement of church and state? The howls of condemnation from the pulpit would have been loud, long and entirely self-justificatory.

Meanwhile, the poor have to go cap-in-hand to Mission Australia (otherwise known as the Catholic church), the Salvation Army, the Uniting Church, even bloody Hillsong for God's sake if they want access to basic Government services, while the hierarchy of those organisations drive in tax-free cars, live in tax-free housing and draw down stipends that they pay only minimal personal tax on. The last thing this country needs is more bloody religious proselytising entrenched in the schools.

Bronco, you can believe in that.

All the best.

Hi David f,
“Since there a precedent for such legislation we could lobby to see it reinstated.”
That sounds hopeful.
I just read a review of that book by Frame and, from what I understand, Frame (from an Anglican perspective of course) says that there is no danger that Australia will be dominated by fundies because the Australian constitutional arrangement balances religion and state.
I suppose it depends on how one defines domination.
Fundies have certainly influenced society more than enough.

I’ve been quite confused about Church and State Separation; if I look at the US with their Wall of Separation, I don’t see that this separation act has provided much protection from religious zealots. Both the US and Australian societies are affected by religious bullies.
What Australia desperately needs to be protected against religious prejudice is proper functioning of the Religious Anti-Discrimination Boards; perhaps then we’d have a better chance of maintaining neutrality.

Did you see this yesterday's article in The Age?
http://tinyurl.com/3m6d6e
Apparently, Vic. Education Minister Bronwyn Pike thinks that Catholic schools will be better off when the public system forges stronger partnerships with Catholic schools. If Catholic schools can operate as public schools and agree to a new set of education principles, they can get extra funding.
Even though Pike has a Christian background, I am a little surprised at Pike’s suggestion because as far as I know, she was one of the few who was opposed to the Chaplaincy program.
Australia doesn’t have an established church so it makes no sense that a Minister can even think of singling out Catholic schools for special treatment.

Hi Antiseptic,
I fully agree with everything you are saying. Reading over your post to be reminded of all this religious meddling is like mental torture!

boaz: "DAve..where have you been for the past few decades mate? Every DAY our children are subjected to an 'atheist point of view' rammed down their throats and minds by teachers. Puh-lease don't give me the 'how would you feel' thing mate."

He should, and has given you the 'how would you feel' thing. I'm glad he just did. He should do it over and over until you 'get' it.

Nothing is being rammed down your throat, boaz. It's called neutrality. So yes, this should most definitely be put to you.

The 'godless' position, is neutrality. It's not promoting any particular viewpoint. If there is to be religion in schools, let those children go to private schools with a religious bent.

Under no circumstances, should any particular faith be allowed in public schools - it is indeed, proselytising by stealth.

The 'no religion' viewpoint is not just another religion, boaz. Just because those who are locked in a religious interpretation of the world, particularly fundamentalist ones, can't see it any other way, doesn't make it so.

Teachers are in Scools to teach.
To teach Facts Religioun is not fact it is a belief.
Howard has put in funding for Chaplains to do counselling. If a Chaplain is a qualified counsellor then that is acceptable if that Chaplain is not qualified then that is unacceptable. All teachers have to be qualified. Government Schools have to be Secular as relioun only confuses a student. If Barrabas died on the cross alongside Jesus Christ then that is History. The bible is nothing more than an inaccurate History Book which teaches us an excellent account of the Roman Empire. I suggest that if any of you who have made a contribution in the forum that you go back to your political party that you are member of and place this motion on your agenda. That this Branch calls on the Fedral Government to cease the funding towards Chaplains within all Australian Schools and that the funding be used to improve teachers pay, maintenance in Government Schools that has been starved from Public Schools over the last 11.5 years. we so move.