Funny old world, You are right as long as you never cheat on anyone and believe in sharing and giving. Religoun is not the be and end all non religous folks are probably more caring than anyone. Oops about time I cleaned out my workshop. Chaplains cannot do any harm it was Howard that did the harm with so much irrepairable damage to Australian Society he will always be remembered as the infamous john Howard with his dogma that was Thatcherism at it's worst.

David and Robert

Dave said:

"However, I wish Christians would try to imagine how they would feel if that figure were atheist, Jewish, Muslim or other than Christian and were committed to spreading their viewpoint."

DAve..where have you been for the past few decades mate? Every DAY our children are subjected to an 'atheist point of view' rammed down their throats and minds by teachers. Puh-lease don't give me the 'how would you feel' thing mate.

The 'default' position of education is godless. Just like you would not incarcerate or condemn all teachers when one sexually molests a child, you cannot also condemn all Chaplains if one gets a bit ideologically adventurous and explains the faith to a child.
But the clearly understood rule that the chaplain we have supported goes by is that it is NOT an opportunity for surepticious evangelism.

If you were aware of the transformed children at the local primary school resulting from the chaplaincy program you would re-think your opening post. And by 'transformed' I don't mean they suddenly got 'saved' or 'saw the light' in the religious sense, its simply that a caring person has TIME for them.... and can discuss family and personal issues in a pastoral way. If a child has questions about faith, they can be taken on board just like if they have a question about science or marriage break up.

Boaz you just described what a school counsellor does with your statement: "its simply that a caring person has TIME for them.... and can discuss family and personal issues in a pastoral way."

And if a child has a question about faith, they can go to their local church or ask their parents.

School counsellors are nondenominational - therefore not biased the way a chaplain might be. They are also professionally trained to counsel children - not all chaplains are. Yet funding is restricted to providing chaplains only. Do you really believe that a chaplain is appropriate for Jewish or Islamic schools? Or secular schools which are a diverse mix of all creeds?

This is called discrimination, Boaz.

As for yet another one of your spurious claims: "Every DAY our children are subjected to an 'atheist point of view' rammed down their throats and minds by teachers."

No, Atheism is not taught as a subject at any school.

Evidence Boaz?

However, atheism could be taught as part of an overview of all religions; then atheism would be relevant. Given the diverse religious beliefs throughout the world, a curriculum including discussion of all religions would be of great benefit to children giving them a greater understanding of the reasons for discrimination based on religion.

Boaz wrote:

"DAve..where have you been for the past few decades mate? Every DAY our children are subjected to an 'atheist point of view' rammed down their throats and minds by teachers. Puh-lease don't give me the 'how would you feel' thing mate."

The name is David, not Dave. I have a developed id.

Please cite when and where atheism has been forced down anyone's throat. I repeat. "How would you feel" because you don't seem able to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Chop the Chaplains!

BD, my mission is not to give you a hard time and I try to be fair but I remember that you created a thread about how unacceptable it was that Muslims wanted to build an Islamic school. How can you then find it totally acceptable to set Chaplains on the loose with their spiritual axes in secular schools?
How would you feel if the government’s choice had been Imams instead of Chaplains?

Anyway, a child should have the right to be counselled by a neutral professional but a chaplain cannot DO default neutral.
It’s highly unlikely that, for example, a chaplain will give neutral advice to a teenage boy who is struggling with his sexuality, i.e. he is discovering that he is homosexual.
It’s highly unlikely that a chaplain will give neutral advice to a young teenage girl who found out that she is pregnant.
BTW, neutral does not mean atheist.

David f “I was taken aback to find tax money in Australia went to support religious schools and further shocked by the school chaplaincy program.”
Keep stirring, it’s very hard or impossible for me to accept that our tax money goes to support religious actions in so-called secular schools. I am, as you are, disappointed that Rudd hasn’t dumped this idea of school chaplains.
The Australian government has used our tax money to fund churches and gave millions of tax dollars towards the Pope’s visit this year.
There is not much that can legally be done about it; in Australia. As far as I know, there is not even a proper constitutional separation of church and state, so it seems.

Dear Celivia,

Tom Frame, chief chaplain of the Australian armed forces, wrote "Church and State" which contains, in addition to his thoughts on the matter, a history of church-state relations. He mentions on page 49 a time when it was illegal for Australian tax funds to go to religious institutions including schools:

"It was not until the passage of separate Acts in each colony - South Australia in 1851; Queensland in 1860, New South Wales in 1862. Tasmania in 1869; Victoria in 1870 and Western Australia in 1890 - that government assistance to church activities, including education, ended."

Since there a precedent for such legislation we could lobby to see it reinstated.