What a wonderful thing is freedom of speech.
Its the foundation and the backbone of modern newspapers but are there times when that freedom goes against the better needs of society?
The story on the Daily Telegraph website is entitled "Support for gay school formals".
Its about the head of the Anglican church backing gay and lesbians students taking same sex partners to school formals (Archbishop Aspinalls supportive words too ungodly to really comment on). Yet when we go to the Your Say columns of the Daily Telegraph and its sister publication the Courier Mail (over 900 commnets on this latter Your Say) we generally see a huge number of gay comments uplifting the gay lifestyle as worthy of living.
Its this allowance in free speech that I object to.
I would really like to see newspaper editors edit so as not to allow the gay lobby such increasing power.
Its not going to help the next generation of young boys coming into the world today to become involved in the misery and the health problems of the homosexual life because we allowed that lifestyles spread...allowed it the publicity and the power it wants.
If editors want to be really responsible, then I have to say "please stop the increasing gay free speech in your Your Say columns".
Edit for the good of society.
If we love the children of tomorrow we will not open a door for the gay communities to have any more power.
We have to think about the children of tomorrow and care for them and protect them... before they are even here.

Hi Gibo

You are spot on when you say 'If we love the children of tomorrow'. The problem with sexual immorality (including homosexuality) is that participants only think of themselves. That is why so many defend pornography denying the most obvious outcomes. The obvious outcomes are that many don't give a stuff about their children. If they did then they would confine sex to marriage instead of being caught up in sin and bondage. It is well documented and known that children are best served by having a loving committed mum and dad. Of course many who love to destroy families will quote numerous studies that pervert the obvious truth. It is no wonder the Anglican church is becoming more irrelevant when they choose to be men pleasers rather than think of the good of society as the Scriptures teach.

Gibo: << What a wonderful thing is freedom of speech >>

I agree. Without it I probably wouldn't get to read all the homophobic and other hateful ideas that are apparently harboured by certifiable frootloops like Gibo and runner.

Gibo wants to restrict the freedom of speech of those who say things he doesn't like, but I'm sure he'd sqwawk loudly if, say, the editors of OLO decided to improve the intellectual quality of debates in this forum by censoring the obvious nutters who love to regale us regularly with their loopy ideas.

There are many hateful and idiotic ideas expressed in readers' comments sections of newspaper websites (and indeed in online forums such as OLO) but it's important that their expression is as unrestricted as legally possible, so that the rest of us are aware of the extent and range of such sentiments in the community.

Yeh Runner.
It is a true heart-felt matter of love to protect the next generation from the expansion of the gay movement.
Theres no doubt that many in the homosexual community are "quiet manslaughterers".
Condoms are increasingly being thrown away so they can do the full flesh bit.
Thus the virus spreads and into the heterosexual community (because a percentage of gays movers are bisexual) and people catch the virus and die.
We really ought to put the tidal wave of homosexuality into a full court/legal position and work outwards from there.
If there are gays spreading terminal disease why are they not guilty of an offence?
I dont hate the gays by-the-way, I just want to see their growth stopped as at least one way of improving social and moral health.
Many parents are as you say at fault in this. Me too was part of the permissive generation of the 60's. We openned doors to immorality without thinking too much about who would be harmed down the line. Though I did teach my son well after I got saved. I have in recent years found new hope in Jesus (Im proud to say HE's my Lord and Saviour today and has been for 25 years) and much wisdom regarding repenting of my old ways. HE sure sets us free!
CJMorgan.
Should we open doors for the neo-nazis to spread? Should we encourage the Islamic radicals to store up guns? No.
We protect what we have built... and control gay free speech lest the new children of tomorrow get trapped in a degenerate lifestyle. Many will die if we dont.

"Theres no doubt that many in the homosexual community are "quiet manslaughterers". (Quote: Giborish)

You know Gibber, you really ought to be a wee tad cautious about what you say....

"Condoms are increasingly being thrown away so they can do the full flesh bit." (Quote: Giborish)

......the full flesh bit......?? Can't you see that this kind of terminology reflects more on your sex-obsessed mindset, than to those to whom you refer?

You are one scary little fellow.

What a wonderful thing is freedom of speech.
Its the foundation and the backbone of modern newspapers but are there times when that freedom goes against the better needs of society?
The story on the Daily Telegraph website is entitled "Support for gay school formals".
Its about the head of the Anglican church backing gay and lesbians students taking same sex partners to school formals (Archbishop Aspinalls supportive words too ungodly to really comment on).
Yet when we go to the Your Say columns of the Daily Telegraph and its sister publication the Courier Mail (over 900 commnets on this latter Your Say) we generally see a huge number of paranoid conservative nutcase comments promoting a bigoted christian lifestyle as worthy of living.
Its this allowance in free speech that I object to.
I would really like to see newspaper editors edit so as not to allow the fundamentalist conservative Christian lobby such increasing power.
Its not going to help the next generation of young bpeople coming into the world today to become involved in the misery and bigotry problems of the conservative life because we allowed that hatred to spread...allowed it the publicity and the power it wants.
If editors want to be really responsible, then I have to say "please stop the increasing fundamentalist christian free speech in your Your Say columns".
Edit for the good of society.
If we love the children of tomorrow we will not open a door for the conservative christians to have any more power.
We have to think about the children of tomorrow and care for them and protect them... before they are even here.

- Gibo

I think your ideas are cruel, divisive and incite hatred. But I let them stand, because of the importance of free speech.

People will never agree on everything. That's why we have this compromise of free speech. To rail against that is stupid, because frankly, I think more Australians would like to silence your cruel commentary than vice versa.

Not sex obssessed Ginx.
Just worried about tomorrows children.
And not frightened of the gay community.
Think about it. A deadly disease and people willingly spreading it through their sexual behaviour.
What is that?
Not a form of manslaughter? Not culpable sex crime?
Behave.
Its criminal act.

Dont lose sight of the fact TurnRightThenLeft that my heart is for the children born today... though not corrupted tomorrow because we step in and thwarted the growth of gay.

Any valid points that you MAY make are completely lost with your High Church piety approach.

And you ARE obsessive and quite bizarre Giborish.

Gibo, it's patently clear that your first comment "what a wonderful thing freedom of speech is" is a lie.

You don't believe that at all.

You wouldn't say that, then baulk at allowing it. There's no such thing as "free speech... but only free when I want it to be."

That, I'm afraid, is the 'idiot's guide to censorship'.

I guess you can argue that free speech shouldn't exist when there is vilification involved, because that might cause violence.

But to argue it shouldn't be there, just because you don't like gays?

Hell, I don't like conservative idiots who incite hatred against gays just because they need some two thousand year old book to figure out how to live their life.

But I'm not so narrow minded as to censor them.

P.S. your disease argument is dumb. For the umpteenth time, unprotected sex, be it hetero or homosexual intercourse, is what spreads disease. Gay people are less likely to wear rubbers because there's no risk of pregnancy, but that doesn't mean that 'gay sex' is spreading it.

By the same token then, you should be damning the Catholic church's opposition to condoms as being just as bad, when it comes to spreading STDs.

But I suppose that would only be the case if your concerns were actually about STDs, instead of just hating homosexuality because your fables and prophecies tell you to.

Like CJ and TRTL, Gibo, I find *your* views immoral. Nevertheless, I'd fight for your right to have them and express them.

Freedom of speech means that you believe in the right of people that you disagree with to speak in public and be published. In saying you don't think gay people should be allowed to speak, you are not saying, "I believe in free speech, with exceptions" because free speech cannot have exceptions. You are saying, "I believe public discourse should reflect my own prejudices."

Gibo: "Theres no doubt that many in the homosexual community are 'quiet manslaughterers'."

If there are, they aren't very good at it, because rates of infection in Australia are very low. It's true that rates of infection have risen since the late 90s, but they're still around half of the rates Australia saw in the late 80s. For all the sensationalist articles you read in the tabloids about "barebacking" (i.e. gay sex without condoms), the real problem is complacency — rates of infection were so long people forgot they could even get HIV.

(See here: http://www.avert.org/ausstatg.htm)

To find high rates of HIV and AIDS infection, you need to look at far more Christian countries — the USA, and some African countries.

Of course, if we take the global perspective, HIV AIDS is a heterosexual disease, not a homosexual disease. Most people with AIDS live in Sub-Saharan Africa. People living in Christian countries are more likely to get AIDS than people living in Muslim countries.

Is god trying to tell you something? Should we put the African Christians on trial for spreading disease?

Look, Christians are obsessed with homosexuality, I know. (Far more that the bible is, I note. It's like a fever, with you guys, huh?) Enjoy your obsession — think and think and think about how gay people are "promoting" their lifestyle in your face, imagine them thrusting their bottoms at each other in their private bedrooms, see if you can catch them, in public toilets, adopting a "wide stance".

But you'll never get them to shut up.

It doesn't really matter. Both sides of politics changed the Constitution of Australia to actively discriminate against gay people and deny them their rights. Made my stomach turn with disgust.

It's all been said Gibo. You have some funny ideas about free speech if you think it only valid for your own point of view. Homosexuality has been around for centuries - when will the Churches stop lobbying to prevent the human rights of gay people.

Funny you mention condoms, why does the Catholic Church continue to promote large families, particularly in the poorest of countries, despite growing concern over finite resources and ability to produce enough food.

C'mon people. Let's face up to it: we've all been conned. The person writing as "Gibo" is actually a dreadlocked tree-hugger who sits at the computer toking and giggling as we all fall for the ploy and run around with our knickers so far in a knot it cuts off the blood supply to our brains.

Read that initial post carefully. Isn't it just text-book perfect? If you were having to write a fictitious ironic dialogue for a character in a movie isn't that how it'd go? (Like that The Streets song with the dialogue between the El Biffo character and the weenerish students).

Nah...I bet "Gibbo" splutters into his/her spliff with laughter every time we get all earnest in our repudiation of these posts.

ps alternatively the person behind the name is a cross-dressing academic of spotless probity at a "secular humanist" University - who is writing a paper on human gullibility.

Actually Romany, I suggested something very similar a little while back (that Gibo is actually a stoned-out uni student, as I recall), and his was response was that he has been "blessed" to have not attended a university.

I'm not convinced, but who cares - he's always good for a laugh.

While I've got Romany's attention, I'd also like to read your blog. You can email me at biangolulu@gmail.com :)

Dear Vanilla Ginx and others.

No, Christians are not obsessed with homosexuality or sex, what we are concerned about is the POWER which is emerging along side those versions of reality.

-Children being taught that 2 daddy's or 2 mummy's are ok/normal.
-The danger of Christians being jailed for preaching on Romans 1 (has occurred in Sweden) (back 2 the EVIL RRTA/HATE SPEECH thing!)

I won't list more, but there IS a big list. I suggest the 'obession' is on the other foot. If gays are so non obsessed, why are they always seeking to re-shape the whole of society in their image? i.e. having something which is clearly deviant..and not normal being accepted and even TAUGHT as 'normal'.

Being not normal is not evil in itself.. there are people born with dual gender equipment.. they are by no means normal, but nor are they immoral, they are medically/biologically different from 'normal' people.
In the case of homosexual behavior. That's where the problem comes.
Its not about 'medical/biological' difference it's about SEX. homoSEXuality. The ONLY thing which defines a gay persons "difference" is their desire to have SEXual relations with the same gender.

Now.. the origin of this difference is the subject of considerable speculation, including genetic. Even if it WAS gentically based, it still cannot be considered any more normal or acceptable than a person who claims to be born with a preference for sex with children.

The only difference between that mob and the gay lobby is to be blunt "power" and organization.

CJ.. please refrain from calling people certifiable fruitloops, I'm sure you will agree that to speak thus is defamatory?
Express your intense disagreement by all means, but leave the questions about sanity for those qualified to made them :

Boaz

Do you EVER stop to think before you post?

You make it a part of your persona on this forum to deliberately slur others with whom you disagree; you have called Foxy 'fuzzy', yours truly 'fractured', you deliberately misspell people's monikers just to belittle them. You defame gays all the time with you constant linking to NAMBLA.

You are a complete disgrace to the religion you claim to follow.

Now, on your last post:

There is nothing wrong with 2 mums or 2 dads, what matters is the love.

Yes, people are born with dual genitalia so why do you condemn those who are born with a sexual preference for the same sex? You didn't CHOOSE to be straight now did you?

As for your claim that:

"...hat we are concerned about is the POWER which is emerging along side those versions of reality"

WHAT POWER? Gays make up barely 10% of the population, always have always will. All they want is equal rights - just like the rest of us.

It is you who want POWER, you who want to dictate to everyone how they should live, have sex, who they should worship.

If there is a hell, I have no doubt that there is a special place for HYPOCRITES. You and Gibo and all other religious fundamentalists from any and all religions will be joining each other there.

Just think Boaz, spending eternity with Bin Laden. Truly a union made in hell.

Fractelle, "If there is a hell, I have no doubt that there is a special place for HYPOCRITES. You and Gibo and all other religious fundamentalists from any and all religions will be joining each other there."

Beautifully put. The hatred and lies/distortions that so mark many of our resident fundies posts show that they have no part of any god of truth or love. Their god supposedly said some stuff about bearing false witness that this crowd just don't get.

At least they serve to remind the rest of us what that the supposed renewing of the mind that comes from their faith really is.

R0bert

Dear critics. Just remember what I said.

"...but are there times when that freedom goes against the betters needs of society?"
and "I dont hate the gays by-the-way..."
The power of the free speech that the gay community has built up (while many people werent looking) really needs to be cut off! Chop! We do it because we love the children.
Its not a complex thing and it doesnt effect all that much and it does protect a new generation from the gay "sexual immorality" propaganda. The Bible says NO, so for the spiritual and physical health of society, it has to be NO. Our loving God still hates the sin of it. Not the sinner.
Remember that the gays are an infection spreading sector of society.
Its up to the editors to do what is right and wise.

What is so ironic is that it is not the homosexuals who are being vilified but anyone who objects to their behaviour from being promoted as a healthy lifestyle. Far more hate is expressed to the bible believing Christians than any other group on this forum and in many others. Those who are accused of the most bigotry are actually the receivers of it by those who claim to champion 'tolerance'. I am sure they would rather tolerate paedophiles having a say rather than Christians just so they can convince themselves of their sick philosophies.

Thanks to those who particpated in this thread.
Sadly the truth is recognised by only a few . I for one wont allow the gay movement to dominate society, now that they are loose, lest it become a dark world for children. One needs to speak.
Forty years ago none of us knew a single homosexual. Not one of us at school.
Now they are much of what we hear.
"Got to have our gay rights, got to have this, got to get into the schools and get the boys with us, got to have that, got to have our mardi gras, got to displace some of the straights to get our voice heard more and more". Theyve taken over most of the public toilets even inside major department stores.
No wonder the Christians call it a dying world.

"I for one wont allow fundamentalist religious crackpots to dominate society, now that they are loose, lest it become a dark world for children and adults. One needs to speak."

That about sums it up.

R0bert

runner you are the one with nothing to lose. You see, you already have the freedom to get married, with the legal recognition. This is not the case for gay people, because of people like you and Gibo.

For you to cry persecution because people don't agree with your righteous belief that you have authority over gay people, is laughable in this context. I find it offensive that you believe you have the jurisdiction over your fellow citizens to determine their lives. It used to be "wrong" for a white and black person to marry. People found that "sick". It used to be illegal for gay people to have sex. No longer illegal. It used to be illegal to file for divorce, and the religious thought it would destroy society. Your opposition to gay people is fine as long as you mind your own god-damned business. But you won't will you? Like Gibo you think it's your right to assert your values, whether they be discrimnatory or not, on the lives and bodies of others.

Gibo " The Bible says NO, so for the spiritual and physical health of society, it has to be NO. Our loving God still hates the sin of it. Not the sinner"

No one on the planet save a few isolated monks or nuns lives according to the bible. If you read the bible you will find gross inconsistency in the actions of christians and the texts.

Australia is not a theocracy, though no doubt Christians want it to become one or a de-facto theocracy. We certainly show some traits. Your religious domain ends expressly outside your own personal boundaries and religion, you have no authority over anyone who doesn't have the same belief as you. To quote the bible and believe they are sinful takes some nerve.

I'll leave this quote:

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours", Stephen Roberts

If you have any doubts about the role of religion behind the scenes in Australia and the theocratic movement, or are living somewhat complacent, take the Pope's words himself. Catholics place loyalty to the Pope first, ahead of Australia and it's citzienry and there are a lot of catholics in Australia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/nationalspecial2/17pope.html

"Pope Praises U.S., but Warns of Secular Challenges
...
But he later warned, in a speech to American bishops, of the “subtle influence of secularism” that can co-opt religious people and lead even Catholics to accept abortion, divorce and co-habitation outside of marriage."

While he rightfully is calling out religious people's hypocrisy, he isn't arguing for more private responsibility, he is arguing for political influence based on his religious beliefs:

"“Any tendency to treat religion as a private matter must be resisted,” he said. "

I agree that homosexuals are frequently given an elevated status, above us common breeders, but the irony is that without the zealous, hateful repression from neo-theocrats, gays would have no special position in society and would not be in the spotlight as martyrs.

Instead, no-one would give a damn about their sex-lives, and the all-too-common episodes of queenish boorishness we see would be regarded with appropriate distaste, instead of lauded as commendable self-expression.

They are major disease spreaders Sancho and the plague is getting worse not better.

Any evidence to cite, Gibo, or simply expressing a facile justification for your preferred worldview?

Gibo you could have a look at Deuteronomy 5:20 and then come back and tell us all that you are obeying that each time you post one of your made up claims (which you can't back with verifiable evidence).

R0bert

Just to be accurate, as I've noted above (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1686#32772), while the amount of gay men in the Australia with AIDS has dropped since the 1980s, infections amongst the heterosexual community in sub-Saharan Africa are increasing

Dont need evidence much other than from the University of Life.
Dont need big reports from flash people, some reports boggied to suit a view.
I know people and I know sinful hearts because before I came to Jesus I had one.
The rest comes from newspaper/web reports on the growing non-use of condoms by gays and the knowledge that where disease is... it spreads.
There wont be a cure for the plague as long as men want to practice the sin. Im sure of that.

Well, at least you have the humility to acknowledge that your comments in this discussion have no evidential basis whatsoever. However, you really should preface such patently false statements with "I reckon", because an opinion is not a fact, no matter how much you'd like it to be true.

I take most of my observations from life experience Sancho.
There seems to be a terrible weakness in the youth on this site that they always have to refer to other peoples reports, graphs, charts, so-called research etc.
Life experience is living and watching.
Knowing COMMON SENSE...much of it.
Seeing people and what they do and not forgetting it.
Id rather write a story up, based on my years, than someone else data.

Gibo

You are 100% right in that those practicing homosexuality spread disease at a far higher rate than the normal population through their unhealthy acts. The deniers are the same who deny the devastating effects of pornography. Their defense of perversion at all costs to society totally blinds them of facts.

'By recently admitting that "HIV is a gay disease," Matt Foreman, outgoing executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, acknowledged what the medical community has known for decades: The homosexual lifestyle is extremely high risk and often leads to disease and even death.' http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61856

Gibo - Your detractors are not interested in facts just a condoning of their perverted philosophy.

My life experience has taught me that gay people are just people. However, my life experience has also taught me to seek out gay people, because they are often the most interesting people in the room — open-hearted and loving and brave, despite (or because of) exposure to the hatred and bigotry people like you, Gibo, inflict on them. My life experience has taught me that my gay friends are affectionate, intelligent, ethical, profound, moral, theatrical, hilarious people. My life experience has taught me that gay people experience sex as erotic and loving, just as heterosexuals do.

My life experience has taught me that the fire of hatred against heterosexuals is sparked by fear and a personal sense of powerlessness, and fanned by religious prejudice. My life experience has taught me that religious people, particularly Christians and Muslims, are overly interested in other people's sex lives. My life experience has taught me that many Christians prefer to emphasise the parts of the Bible that preach hate rather than the parts that preach love. My life experience has taught me that when people accept one report as true and another as fallacious because the former backs up their argument and the latter proves it incorrect, those people are lying to themselves. My life experience has taught me that when religious people say that hate the sin but love the sinner, they are simply reciting a platitude, and that, deep down, they really do hate that sinner.

But let me guess. My life experience isn't as good as yours, is it Gibo? It's as erroneous as my statistics, I imagine.

"There seems to be a terrible weakness in the youth on this site that they always have to refer to other peoples reports, graphs, charts, so-called research etc."

Maybe the "youth" part does not apply but I'll assume that I'm included.

I loved Vanilla's post about her life experience, I've posted previously about my life experience and how it's shown me that the christain god does not exist. At a guess Gibo won't value either Vanilla's or my life experiences enough to give them any weight.

We value studies and research because we have enough life experience to know that the world is far larger than our own experience. That our interpretation of our life experience is impacted by the things we already believe and the slice of life experience we get exposed to.

Research can be tainted by the same things but good research has tools that can work to avoid that tainting. Gibo because his god does not like homosexuals will see the bad bits much more willingly than he sees the good. Because he is so tied up in a church culture that considers homosexuality a sin he will recieve regular reinforcement of negative views of homosexuals. I spent many years in that kind of environment and it is really difficult to understand while you are in it just how much it warps your perceptions of what is outside.

The problem lies not with those who pay attention to what others have learned through carefull and considered study but with those so arrogant they they consider their own limited and distorted life experience to be the only valid measure of truth.

The world is a much richer and wonderful place than religious fundies will ever know while they continue to insist on seeing everything via the blinkers they have chosen to wear.

R0bert

Vanilla & R0bert

Both your posts are very apt and profound.

I particularly endorse R0bert saying:

"The world is a much richer and wonderful place than religious fundies will ever know while they continue to insist on seeing everything via the blinkers they have chosen to wear."

This was the point I was trying to make between religiosity and spirituality. One is about following a doctrine, the other is about feeling alive.

No-one is truly alive who hates for no more reason than they believe it is a form of self-righteousness.

Gibo has simply substituted one addiction for another, at least on drugs or alcohol there are times when one is sober, but the religious fundamentalist addict is always blind.

Robert: ""The world is a much richer and wonderful place..."

That in turn reminded me of one of my favourite poems. It's not really that apropos, but it does have the world "gay" in it.

Snow
by Louis MacNeice

The room was suddenly rich and the great bay-window was
Spawning snow and pink roses against it
Soundlessly collateral and incompatible:
World is suddener than we fancy it.

World is crazier and more of it than we think,
Incorrigibly plural. I peel and portion
A tangerine and spit the pips and feel
The drunkenness of things being various.

And the fire flames with a bubbling sound for world
Is more spiteful and gay than one supposes -
On the tongue on the eyes on the ears in the palms of one's hands -
There is more than glass between the snow and the huge roses.

Good site Runner.
My detractors always seem to miss the perversion part (would you have sex with farm animal, why a man? Its against the pairing of the species that clearly exists in all Creation) and the fact that as the gay inclined teen starts out, he is doing what his conscience says NO to.
Detractors also go for the Christian churches and the fact that we support Gods Stance in the gay issue and what His Word says (and christians better if they want to stay with Him).
We have a liberal age and many prominent church leaders supporting the gay movement under the "love others " heading and yet they put aside the fact that God says its sin.
I mean He sets the laws. And theyre not so hard to conform to.

The only problem is, Gibo, that "He" is a figment of your imagination and those of other Christians. Read this carefully:

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours", Stephen Roberts

Oh, it's a great site, runner: religious conservative extremism that looks like a side-project for the people who run those conspiracy SITES where every third WORD is in CAPITALS because you HAVE to know ABOUT the coming ALIEN invasion.

Is it aliens invading, Gibo? Is that what your collected prophesies say? Or is it a flotilla of muslim lesbian abortionists armed with Richard Dawkins books?

"... Or is it a flotilla of muslim lesbian abortionists armed with Richard Dawkins books?"

And with their boosums on clear display?

Gibo, given that you've accused others of being proud and arrogant on another thread, and weak here, may I ask why you cite reports but refuse to believe in the reports others cite? Why you believe your life experiences should shape government and media policy, no less, but the life experience of others should be ignored.

Wouldn't God being disappointed that you are being so proud and arrogant?

I might cite reports Vanilla but I never get too close to them.
If a major newspaper runs an article and there is no backlash regarding the truth then it would seem that what they wrote was accurate to a degree.
I dont trust too many writings, articles etc enough to go indepth. To me, and many other christians, its primarily a deception age when noted researchers, professors, lecturers will do almost anything for fame.
They will tweek it here or tweek it there to get the result that uplifts their name. Stats are never really reliable. You got to remember that Im indoctrinated to read or hear the Holy Bible. This is my christian walk. Outside of that I see things as sus. In this respect trusting little other than Gods Word, which is Confirmed as truth to me by The Holy Spirit who lives within, I dont let much pollute what God gave me. Sorry if that seems narrow. But it sure is Comfortable. Who would you buy a used car from these days, or an article that you could really say was true? All Mr. Dawkings stuff appears to be from idle hours of trapped as he is and the bitterness of a life lived with infirmity. God bless him to get saved. Dont trust too many references. Whats in The Word is whats going to happen. There wont be no great, golden, high tech, anti-grav, intellectuals computer age that saves mankind. The Book of Revelation is whats going to happen.

"You got to remember that Im indoctrinated to read or hear the Holy Bible."

To the exclusion of reason and common sense?

I'm starting to concur with the commenters who are convinced you're actually a stoned student having fun with people's reactions.

Plus, that's less disturbing than the other possible conclusions.

Gibo: "In this respect trusting little other than Gods Word, which is Confirmed as truth to me by The Holy Spirit who lives within, I dont let much pollute what God gave me. Sorry if that seems narrow. But it sure is Comfortable."

It doesn't *seem* narrow, Gibo, it *is* narrow. I do wish you well and of course you should believe whatever you wish. But sometimes it seems a bit odd that you start threads but then block absolutely others people's views and opinions, because you do not trust them. This isn't a conversation, it's just you stating your views about gay people, vilifying gay people with some barefaced lying about the incidence of homosexuals knowingly spreading HIV, pointing out that the media should bow down to these (fallacious) views, then refusing to respond or even listen to anyone else's views or ideas.

I know your views are very heartfelt, and I'm sure you're a good person underneath all that prejudice, but it seems to me that you don't really know much about gay people except what you have read in a few newspaper reports. Why don't you leave judgment up to God, and focus on the positive things you can do rather than the negative?

By the way, Gibo, you are getting Richard Dawkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins) mixed up with Stephen Hawking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking). Neither of them appear bitter (quite the reverse) and certainly neither of them are idle!

The Bible TRTL to born again christian is all thats reason and commonsense. Everything else could generally be anything from a truthful thing to lies, imaginings, making stuff up, fiddling the books etc.
Vanilla.
No bareface lies about many gays knowing they are spreading the virus.
They know what they doing when they say "to hell with the condom this time" or "who cares about this person Im about to have sex with, Im going to do it anyway and tell them nothing about my infection"...giving it to both sexes.
They are a true menace to society and thats not vilification. Its telling the truth.

Could be Vanilla.
The end of the day tires me.
Most of the science/evolution/secular folk are much the same. Look out over the great number of them and beyond a few faces in the front row...the rest are tops of heads.
Theres just so much talk out there, so many scrambling to be recognised, so many articles, so many charts and graphs, so much Uni/professor speak.
No one can keep up. Its like the net...too much on it to keep people interested in the longrun...apart from the porn perverts.
The Word of God is where its at for christians.

Gibo

Given your distrust of the written word:

"I dont trust too many writings, articles etc enough to go indepth. To me, and many other christians, its primarily a deception age when noted researchers, professors, lecturers will do almost anything for fame."

Am I correct in assuming that you read the New Testament in its original Aramaic, given how tricky those translations could be?

I mean the translations could possibly lead you into the narrow confines of a self-righteous straight jacket? As you said yourself, some editors may be careless. They may even have agendas of spreading hate towards particular groups of people.

Have you considered that you have closed yourself from the world and the many diverse people that make it, simply because the New testament is not quite as truthful as you would like to believe?

PS Vanilla: Top Poem

:-D