mjpb, although you may find the odd observation here and there that it was business as usual, most historians agree that religion is at the heart of the Troubles.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/northernireland/protestantpresence.html

"Though [Henry VIII] did it more from pragmatism than from passion, the fighting he started in England between Catholic and Protestant wasn't done for over 200 years. In Ireland it's going on still."

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/abj76/PG/pieces/british_archipelago.htm

"Much of the religious paving for a "British" union was Protestant, and from the sixteenth century Ireland voiced its resistance to an English embrace through a strong retention of Catholicism over most of the country. Centuries of effort to retain Ireland in a British union foundered from 1916, leading to the creation of a largely Catholic state over 26 of the island's 32 counties"

>>Anyway, haven't the English been after Ireland since about the 12th Century? How does that support your theory?<<

My "theory" is that the Troubles in Ireland have religion as their primary cause and motivation. And what happened in the twelfth century?

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire1100.htm

"MacMurrough appealed for help to King Henry II of England and changed the course of history by doing so. This opened the door for the Norman invasion of Ireland beginning in 1169"

Normans, mjpb. Not English. Nor even Scottish.

Back to school for you too, I'm afraid. You can sit next to Boaz if you like, and you can learn together.

1. about non religious in Australia.
In the 1996 Census there was 2.948.900 non religious persons or 16.6% of Australian population. In the 2006 Census there was 3.706.600 non religious persons or 18.7% of Australian population. The non religious Australians in 10 years increased 25.7%, in the same time the Anglican DECREASED 4.7% the Uniting Church DECREASED 14.9% and Presbyterian and Reformed DECREASED 11.7%. (This information is from Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade)
2. About the very Christian life, or very religious life SEN. JOHN McCAIN, accepted the Endorsement from Anti-Catholic, Anti-Gay, Anti-Muslim Pastor John Hagee and he is very proud of John Hagee’s spiritual leadership to thousands of people. John Hagee has recently published a book in which he predicts the end of Israeli independence as a result of giving up the Golan Heights and then signing a treaty with the Antichrist. He also believes that Jews can go to God without going through Jesus He called the catholic league 'The Great Whore,' the 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ' and a 'false cult system' He believes the AIDS was a sign from God that homosexuality was an “abomination. Do not forget the Christian fundamentalists, the Christian Taliban,
What kind of values can create this kind of religious leaders ? What kind of messages can they sent?
The moral values, is a personal issue and their creation depend on many, many factors, not only or not mainly from a religion.
Personally I see most religious leaders as the champions in hypocrisy!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

ASymeonakis

I am in complete agreement with the points you have raised, if ever there was an ideology that lends itself to rorting and hypocrisy it is religion.

It is so easy for someone to pretend to high morals by claiming they are religious, it is far more impressive that a person conducts themselves with complete integrity irrespective of whether they are religious or not.

For myself, I believe that everything is interconnected, that everything we do has consequences and I try to be mindful of that.

"We are formed and molded by our thoughts.

Those whose minds are shaped by selfless thoughts give joy when they speak or act.

Joy follows them like a shadow that never leaves them."

Buddha

Dear Fractelle,

The Dalai Lama made similar points when he spoke about religious values and human society. He said:

"In one way - in material terms - this present generation has reached a high level of development. Yet at the same time, we human beings are facing many problems. Some are due to external events or causes, such as natural disasters. These we cannot avoid.

However, many problems are created by our own mental defects; we suffer due to an internal lack. I call these problems unnecessary ones, for if we adopt a right mental attitude, these man-made problems need not arise.

Often they are due to differences in idealogy, and unfortunately different religious faiths are also sometimes involved. Hence it is very important that we have a right attitude.

There are many different philosophies, but what is of basic importance is compassion, love for others, concern for others' suffering, and reduction of selfishness.

I feel that compasionate thought is the most precious thing there is.
It is something that only we human beings can develop. And if we have a good heart, a warm heart, warm feelings, we will be happy and satisfied ourselves, and our friends will experience a friendly and peaceful atmosphere as well. This can be experienced nation to nation, country to country, continent to continent.

We must implement these good teachings in daily life. Whether you believe in God or not does not matter so much... You must lead a good life. A good motivation is what is needed: compassion, without dogmatism, without complicated philosophy; just understanding that others are human brothers and sisters and respecting their rights and human dignity..."

Yvonne and Foxy and Fractelle and everyone,

Thinking about compassion reminds me of that old definition of racism — believing that other people have a less rich inner experience than you do — that because of what they look like on the outside, something on the inside is diminished.

I know I irritate some of you because I always insist on pointing out the failings of religion. I am sorry. But it is that notion of emotional and intellectual and I'm trying to fight — that notion that some people are lesser people because of something arbitrary, prejudiced and scriptural. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who saw this today: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/bkirby-attackb-gay-judge-to-feel-wrath-of-god-priest-says/2008/04/09/1207420538821.html

When Bill Heffernan was forced to apologise to Justice Kirby for calling him all sort so horrible poofy names, Kirby J said, ""I accept Senator Heffernan's apology and reach out my hand in a spirit of reconciliation. I hope my ordeal will show the wrongs that hate of homosexuals can lead to."

Compassion and forgiveness in the face of all that hatred. Which is also what he manages to do on the High Court every day.

Did anyone see Tim Costello on the tell tonight? 4,000,000 people have died in the Congo since 2000 and something — 1,000 people a day. Whatever spirituality is, it is the thing that helps us even conceive of this kind of horror, and hopefully, in whatever tiny way, help.

Dear Vanilla,

You always put your point of view across so brilliantly.

Please keep right on doing it.

Don't ever change!