PS: sorry, I wrote the post above very quickly after a glass of wine and did not proofread it!

If you can't understand my ranting, I meant to say:

Thinking about compassion reminds me of an old definition of racism I once heard — racism is believing that other people have a less rich inner experience than you do, that because of what they look like on the outside, something on their inside is diminished.

I know I irritate some of you because I always insist on pointing out the failings of religion. I am sorry. But it is that notion of emotional and intellectual inferiority that some people attribute to others that I'm trying to fight — that notion that some people are lesser people because of something arbitrary, prejudiced and scriptural. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who saw this today: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/bkirby-attackb-gay-judge-to-feel-wrath-of-god-priest-says/2008/04/09/1207420538821.html

When Bill Heffernan was forced to apologise to Justice Kirby for calling him all sorts of nasty poofy names, Kirby J said, "I accept Senator Heffernan's apology and reach out my hand in a spirit of reconciliation. I hope my ordeal will show the wrongs that hate of homosexuals can lead to."

Compassion and forgiveness in the face of all that hatred. It astounds and impresses me. It's also what he manages to do on the High Court every day.

Did anyone see Tim Costello on the telly tonight? Four million people have died in the Congo since 2000something — 1,000 people a day. Whatever spirituality is, it is the thing that helps us even conceive of this kind of horror, and hopefully, in whatever tiny way, help.

Hmm.. Fractelle...having a little 'religious promo/rant' there ? :)

Dear Vanilla...there are a couple important points you raise requiring some 'close air support' type attention.

1/ THE ATTACK ON KIRBY <<Mr Lane's attack was provoked by Justice Kirby's assertion on ABC Radio late last year that the Anglican and Catholic archbishops of Sydney, Peter Jensen and George Pell, had, via religious instruction, made it hard for people to adopt a more tolerant attitude to gays.>>

Now.. while you might not share Reverent Lanes faith, (nor mine) you should at least understand that the (Biblically based) Christian world view does not, and if scripture means anything, will never accept homosexual behavior as either normal or acceptable. Here we have a man.. a high court Judge, actively campaigning for recognition of something which is an absolute abomination to God. (along with Incest and bestiality and child abuse)

and.. a Christian priest/pastor.. 'reacts' to this as a memeber of a democratic society, and under the belief that he has a duty to prophetically address this situation. Some 'tolerance' would be welcome here. Remember.. tolerance is 'tolerating those you disagree with'.....

2/ PEOPLE ARE LESSER.... now.. this is becoming a rather predictable theme in not only your writings, but some others. Moral injuctions about human behavior is NOT, repeat NOT, about 'this person is more valuable/better' than another. It is about one thing, and one thing alone.. "sin". The person practicing such and such behavior, which is unnaceptable to group such and such, simply means that the person will not be accepted in the group IF, they persist in behavior which is in conflict with the values of the group.

If one group (gays) wishes for ALL groups in society to accept them, then that is just as much 'soft proselytization', as it is for another group (Christians, Muslims, Buddhists) to seek to change the flavor of the social mix with a bit of their own spice.

Investigators searching the temple of a polygamist sect in Texas found a bed used by men to have sex with their under-age "wives",
Members believe a man must marry at least three wives in order to ascend to heaven. Women are taught that their path to heaven depends on being subservient to their husband.
Girls as young as 13 were "spiritually married" to older husbands in the sect, investigators say, in a cycle of abuse.
More than 400 children and 130 women have been removed from the compound since it was raided on 3 April.
Do you see? some religious leaders use the religious to cover their their sex needs!

Boaz, I can't help but take issue with your comments on gay society and the view of Jesus. I don't believe Jesus taught us that we should condemn a person due to their sexual persuasion ...

"Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you." (Matthew 21:31) – now the context of this is because they heard and adhered to his message of repentance more than the “chief priests and elders”, so I am not trying to state that Jesus supported prostitution either.

I do not understand the "gay" mind, I am not gay and therefore cannot understand the attraction to another man - but neither can I condemn that thought. For me if a gay male shares the same love with a man that I share with my wife how do I judge that as wrong? Equally if it is just about lust, well then that is equal to lust for another woman.

This loosely goes to my point of religious dogma and the spiritual message: the keys to Christianity (for me) is love one another and treat others as you would like to be treated. Judging someone for their sexual orientation or other sins does not sit well with how I'd like to be treated - especially when I am obviously ignorant of their situation.

Jesus came at a time when the Jewish religion was steeped in tradition, routines and dogma ... he broke the rules, he encouraged gentiles to worship with Jews, he welcomed tax collectors and "harlots", he broke with the Church (synagogues).

What would Jesus make of todays religions? traditions? teachings? Would he overturn the tables of Hillsong? Would he condemn the teachings of Pell and Jensen?

I've often wondered upon death what are the key themes that will mean something on the other side? Sexual orientation? Race? Gender? Power? Borders? Will any of these be what God or heaven look at? Will any of these serve any importance whatsoever to my spiritual side?

Now Boazy you are telling porkies again.

"The person practicing such and such behavior, which is unnaceptable to group such and such, simply means that the person will not be accepted in the group IF, they persist in behavior which is in conflict with the values of the group. "

Thats not really how it is for you fundies is it. You know it, I know it and everybody who has read posts about homosexuality by you and the other resident fundies knows it.

You don't just seek to exclude practicing gays from your wednesday night bible study group or sunday morning worship service, you campaign to stop them having the same legal protections as other adults in consentual relationships within the broader community.

Your buddies (I can't recall if you personally do this one) continue to try to tie gays to child sexual abuse and generally incite hatred against them in the community.

Hands up everybody who thinks that their god is a god of truth and who also thinks that should impact on how they live.

R0bert

R0bert: << Now Boazy you are telling porkies again. >>

Boazy wouldn't do that! It's against his religion.