Cont...

As for Rev Lane, you're saying that Justice Kirby was being malicious when he brought up the letters with David Marr, right? Do remember that Rev Lane had already suggested making the letters public amongst the clergy, so perhaps in the environment they were and the conversation they were having Justice Kirby felt it was time to make these issues part of a wider debate. Maybe you're right — I've no periscope into the heart of Justice Kirby. But I sincerely doubt it.

I tend to think people are maliciously motivated much less frequently than we generally imagine. The fashionable view appears to be that people are cunning and manipulative, but most people, I think, muddle along, trying to do their best, some succeeding more than others. I by no means agree with Kirby J on everything — for a start, god — but it looks to me if he's trying to push the debate into the public arena. Perhaps he should have been more sensitive about who was in his way, but he had been receiving abusive letters, and that, too, may have clouded his judgment.

PS Foxy - thank you!

Wow, what a thread ... from values to violence, Henry VIII to Eisenhower, Karl Marx to Justice Kirby, Christianity to Atheism ... and everything in between. What was the topic again?

I've truly enjoyed this debate and the views of such a diverse group of thinkers.

Boaz, I respect your beliefs and commitment ... the growth of Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormans is very closely aligned to those "spruiking" the faith ... and based on your comments I am sure this leopard won't change its spots.

As for societies values and moral compass, I feel there are enormous gaps appearing and its closely linked to a lack of teaching in the areas of ethics and values. I don't proclaim religion is the only way to a moral society, but a little like the statement on democracy, it's not the best form of government, but show me a better one.

Thanks Foxy, a lively, informative and diverse thread.

Corri

“ mjpb thinks about the Association of Psychological Science”

LOL Sorry I didn’t get around to responding to that post.

”mjpb, ...pointing out that I'm a bit of an idiot in for suggesting, "notion of emotional and intellectual inferiority that some people attribute to others that I'm trying to fight." You're right. It sounds silly looking back at it, and I'm sure it's very hypocritical of me and I am frequently guilty of the exact same thing. I had a couple of glasses of wine and got pretentious”

Actually no but I’m open to it and the possibility that I might have been guilty of the same on occasion.

“As for Rev Lane, you're saying that Justice Kirby was being malicious when he brought up the letters with David Marr, right?”

Yes some deliberation involved.

“...Maybe you're right — I've no periscope into the heart of Justice Kirby. But I sincerely doubt it.”

Maybe you are right. Neither do I. I just know he is quite clever and would be in a better position than many to predict the consequences and suspect he feels strongly about the issue.

”I tend to think people are maliciously motivated much less frequently than we generally imagine...”

I know there have been times when people have read things in that I didn’t intend so that definitely happens.

“I by no means agree with Kirby J on everything — for a start, god”

You mean that God exists?

“…but it looks to me if he's trying to push the debate into the public arena. Perhaps he should have been more sensitive about who was in his way, but he had been receiving abusive letters, and that, too, may have clouded his judgment.”

It would be an understandable reaction particularly from someone in his position given the comments that I quoted.

Foxy,

As Corri said thanks for a lively, informative and diverse thread.

Boaz, simply repeating the same tired old mantra doesn't improve its credibility.

>>I lump homosexual behavior in with the other listed behaviors because they listed in Leviticus 18 and mentioned frequently in the New Testament<<

Frequently? Hardly. A handful of vague references that may or may not indicate disapproval. Of something.

As for Leviticus, we've been there before, that verse has as much relevance to 2008 as the one about scourging bondmaids, or this one, which is my favourite:

"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard" Lev 19:27

I seem to recall you mentioning that you are bearded, Boaz.

Have you marred its corners recently? I sure hope not.

And mjpb, I tried hard to understand your last point about Ireland, but it was far too sophisticated for me.

>>Noone is denying the labels put on the groups though the most ardent contributor I’ve met was an atheist in spite of his partisan alignment for political purposes. Boazy was just saying religion is peripheral and not related to the modern conflict.<<

And I was saying that Boaz is totally wrong, a view that would be supported by anyone who has actually been to Ireland, as opposed to just having an opinion on the topic.

An opinion formed purely on the basis of the wish being father of the thought, I might add.

Seems pretty obvious to me boaz, that Christianity has evolved over time. There are so many variants, so many interpretations, that have existed over the ages, that you can be sure that the version of Christianity you follow is entirely different to that which was practised a few hundred years ago.

Notice how most of the older, scriptural versions of Christianity die out as people realise that it has become outmoded, and needs to evolve with the times?

Hunted any witches lately? Or is it just the gays that are relevant these days?

According to Gallup polls, in 1982, only 34 percent of Americans "believed that homosexuality was an acceptable alternative lifestyle." In 2007 61% of those polled by People for the American Way supported at least civil unions for gays. Contrary to religious beliefs, human values change fast