A discussion section here on The National Forum offers a heading called Law and Liberties.
Theres a lot of talk about Law and Liberties these days.
What we need and what we need to keep.
Pornography is one of the talks.
The pro-porners say we need to keep it..."we need it"..."we really need it".
Yet what about the women of Australia and their Law and Liberties? What about their lives and our love and respect for them as pornography fires up more and more men each year to commit sexual criminal acts?
I uplift the need for a national Anti-Porn Day as a protest against the cold hearted men of Australia who care more about photographs and videos of naked women than expressing true christian love towards them.
Who will sign on to encourage a national Anti-Porn Day?
Who has the moral grit?

Quote Gibo.

"The pro-porners say we need to keep it..."we need it"..."we really need it". "

Rubbish. Prove it.

"Yet what about the women of Australia and their Law and Liberties? What about their lives and our love and respect for them as pornography fires up more and more men each year to commit sexual criminal acts?"

Rubbish. Prove it. All women participate in pornography unwillingly?.

"I uplift the need for a national Anti-Porn Day as a protest against the cold hearted men of Australia who care more about photographs and videos of naked women than expressing true christian love towards them."

What a load of crap Gibo. What an generalising piece of s*i*. It's only MEN that view porn?. Rubbish. Do some research before you post this crap.

Theres a lot of talk about Law and Liberties these days.
What we need and what we need to keep.
Christianity is one of the talks.
The pro-Christers say we need to keep it..."we need it"..."we really need it".
Yet what about the other people of Australia and their Law and Liberties?
I uplift the need for a national Anti-Christ Day as a protest against the cold hearted men and women of Australia who care more about what God disapproves of and the existence of Demons, than expressing true human love towards them.
Who will sign on to encourage a national Anti-Christ Day?
Who has the moral grit?

Well StG and Bugsy showed themselves to be cowards when it comes to caring for and loving the women and children of tomorrow...wanting masturbation material more than willing to cushion the impact of existing porns evil by seeing it elliminated. Darks hearts both of you.

Dear Gibo,

I admire your tenacity.

Your suggestion of 'A National Anti-Porn Day,' I think is a reasonable idea. We have other 'Clean-Up' days, why not this?

I'm reminded of a story I read. It goes something like this:

"When I was a kid of about nine, my grandfather paid me sixpence a week to dig rose holes while he did the nice clean work pruning the rose bushes.

I'd be digging up to my armpits in the heavy slurpy, sucking clay and he'd go snip,snip,snip,snip, easy as anything with the pruning shears.

I'd be on my knees, grossly overworked and underpaid, while he was doing all the light leaf work high above my head.

I can tell you it was child labour at its worst!

Sometimes he's say, 'Well then, my dear, what will we be when we grow up?'

I'd think for a moment. 'You know those tiny green caterpillars that eat your roses? When I grow up I'm going to be a scientist and breed them to be two feet long so they chew your bloody rose bushes down to their roots!'

'Very interesting,' he'd say and puff deeply on his pipe until his head disappeared in a cloud of smelly blue smoke, whereupon he proceeded to give me a lecture about the breeding habits of the small green rose-eating caterpillar; the wing colouring, size, life-expectancy, migratory habits of its subsequent butterfly and the peculiar cone shape of its remarkable burrowing pupae. Finally, when I'd be cross-eyed with boredom, he'd remark, 'Green caterpillars two feet long, eh?'

'Yes and nasty as anything,' I'd add.

He'd take another puff or two on his noxious pipe and say, 'Well then, my dear, I suppose somebody has to do it!"

That's the whole point isn't it? Have a dream, a real whopper, big as an elephant, then tell yourself:

'Well, somebody has to do it!'

Ah, yes Gibo. It's pretty clear that you just don't want to accept there is a difference between being anti-censorship and pro-porn.

There is a difference, you know. It's just obstinate people like yourself, who label their ideological opponents 'cowards' when many people believe that opposing censorship is crucial to keep our society functioning.

How dare you, gibo? Frankly, that disgusts me.

I'll admit I've called your views loopy, but I've stopped short of calling you insane outright, but now that you've broken ranks and started in on the insults by calling posters 'cowards' I've no hesitation in calling you an utter crackpot, who is more of a coward than most posters here, because you don't have the courage to accept facts when they're presented to you, instead clinging to your nutty conspiracy theories even when you're presented with facts that prove you wrong.

For your own good, you should embrace Bugsy's suggestion, but I'd broaden it from an 'anti-Christ' day, to a just plain, anti-religion day.

In all honesty I wouldn't want an anti-religion day to exist.
But seeing your reaction might give you a thought or two on the meaning of 'hypocrisy' but then again, it probably won't.

It's not about wanting 'masturbation material.' It's about preventing fruitcakes like you gibo, from ever having the ability to judge what people should and shouldn't watch, because it needs to be up to the individual, not the society, to determine who or what we are.
When we step out of line, fine, then the laws correct us, but NO law has the right to shape who or what we are.

May the lord we can never know exists, protect us from the likes of you Gibo. I fear your kind - the kind that thinks it has the right to mould people how they want - far more than any pornographer.

Quote

"'Well StG and Bugsy showed themselves to be cowards when it comes to caring for and loving the women and children of tomorrow...wanting masturbation material more than willing to cushion the impact of existing porns evil by seeing it elliminated. Darks hearts both of you.
Posted by Gibo, Sunday, 6 April 2008 1:51:30 PM"

More crap. I offered no opinion nor condoned or condemned. You just made and past MASSIVE generalisations and judgements like is typical of SHELTERED 'holier than thou' Christians always do. People like you put me off physically going to church becuase of the ignornance and hypocrasy. Your ignorance shone like a million candle power torch. I admire your intention, but educate yourself first. You have NO idea what you're on about.

What Bugsy seems not to realize, is that there HAS been exactly the thing he is talking about..

It has happened in many countries and places at different times.

The Early church faced vicious 'anti Christ' actions from the Roman government.the Jewish religious leaders and even one of Christianities most famous Apostles..Paul.

As a brother said to me this morning.. "The church is an anvil which has worn out many a hammer"

Indeed, but given that I'm sporting a black eye now from a very hardddd right cross from a bloke who (for the 2nd time) interprets 'light' to mean "full on"... I'd prefer to avoid 'anvil duty' for as long as I can.

An Anti 'Christ' day.. if history tells us anything, could result in loss of life and property. An Anti Porn day, would more likely impact the bottom line of the local sex shop... boo hoo..I'm broken hearted.

Gibo..if you want to be with me outside the Canterbury Road sex shop "Sexyland" with some signs..count me in cobber :)

Oh wait.. we could take an example from 'other' parties who run street protests and have a sign which says "Exterminate, those tho insult God" hmmm but would that be a bit close to the line? :) Well..certainly not in the U.K... where that did happen.

Gibo..I think we need a positive message as well..

"Anti Porn/Pro Christ" day....we could have a few team members with some pamphlets explaining true freedom in Christ and the benefits of Christs values, and how porn ultimately destroys people, like the 'strangler fig' in the tropics.

Its hard to know where to begin Foxy.
At this stage, I am with extending the concept.
This I can do via editors in newspapers around Australia encouraging womens groups to stand up for themselves.
Where it goes from there only The Lord can move to establish.
I certainly did ask Him.

That's defamation Gibo. I recommended it for deletion. You SHOULD be banned for it.

We are NOT discussing paedophilia here.

What you 'holier than thou' types don't seem to realise is that sexual violence and "poor" (whatever you feel 'poor' to be) attitudes towards women is NOT caused by porn.

In fact, they are not even correlated.

Attitudes to sex and women in general are much more strongly correlated with culture, parental attitudes and upbringing and peer groups.

Take a look at Islamic countries, none of them would be considered 'permissive', in fact most (if not all) have always had bans on pornography. Iran last year voted to pass death sentences on people who possess and distribute the stuff. Now would you consider their attitudes to women to be 'healthy'? Or even progressive?

I bet Islamic countries don't have rapes or sexual assaults, because they aren't allowed to watch porn!

You guys can take your wowserish prudishness and stick it.

Hey, everybody...

This is getting rather weird...

All these personal attacks, come-on...

As the Beatles sang in "Hey Jude," let's at least "take a sad song and make it better."

Please?

Sing it to the shaker, sister.

Gibo “The pro-porners say we need to keep it..."we need it"..."we really need it".”

I am not only pro-porn. I am, more importantly anti-censorship.

Can I have a parade to condemn the whackos who want a pro-censorship day?

I bet anything you like, I will get ten times as many people to my rally than you will (50 to one if i get a few pole dancers along as cheer leaders).

You failed to prevail on the thread you initiated called “Why no federal government study on pornography?”

Because, basically, you have no evidence to support your view, only religious conjecture and supposition.

Those who opposed your view (like me) were able to substantiate our position and reasoning with links to authoritive and unbiased sources.

Your rally will fail with equal ignominy.

And it will deserve to do so.

Dear Bugsy,

I wish that I could think of something clever to say
as a 'come-back.'

But, I won't.

Because,one of the few lessons I have learned in life
is that there is invariably something odd
about men who call women, "sister."
(smile).

Like priests and religious nuts Foxy?

I totally agree.

Dear Bugsy,

Or should I say, 'Father?'
(smile).

I'll pay that one dear heart - you win!

Gibo

“If you are pro-porn StG, Bugsy, TRTL, the rest of you weaklings, you are as bad as a pedophile.
In truth there is no differnce between you and the child molester.”

Are you calling me a weakling?
Do you dare suggest I a no different to a pedophile?
Are you prepared to prove I am a child molester?

I am the father of 2 girls. They are both adult now and have healthy relationships with the men in their lives and a great relationship with their father.

They know me and they know how I have treated them since the moment they were born to now.

If you needed to ask anyone what is the difference between me and a child molester I would suggest you should ask them.

They would tell you.

My younger daughter was talking with me about politics recently and I reminded her I never told directly who I voted for, only the sort of government I wanted. She has since put it together for herself and, like me and her elder sister, supports small government and not the sort of government which takes upon itself the responsibility of making unnecessary decisions for us through censorship or pointless prohibition.

And you now claim I am no different to a child molester!

Gibo, I have, like many others on this and other threads, been patient with you but that statement goes beyond anything which is acceptable.

You are an ignorant bigot.

You parade your views without referral to any reference of note.

Preaching biblical scriptures as a basis is inadequate because, biblical scriptures are the product of theological paternalism and re-invention by the very system which has systematically protected pedophile priests.

I will always resist the pressure of people like you to impose your religious hypocrisy upon a secular state.

As for a come-back

“Gibo, pornography, for he protests too much”

I wonder where he hides his secret stash?

StG: "That's defamation Gibo. I recommended it for deletion. You SHOULD be banned for it."

While I'm not into censorhip per se, it does appear that there's a bit of a lack of consistency with respect to moderation in this forum lately. The moderator has recently displayed a very delicate sensibility to various posts on certain topics, but apparently allows this kind of Christian wowser abuse of others a free reign.

I'm at a loss as to why a generally credible forum like OLO has approved so many rubbish articles and general posts of late.

Gibo: "If you are pro-porn StG, Bugsy, TRTL, the rest of you weaklings, you are as bad as a pedophile.
In truth there is no differnce between you and the child molester."

I've made the point repeatedly Gibo - pro porn and anti censorship are completely different issues.

You won't listen. And you have the hide to call people cowards.

Foxy, I hear what you're saying, but Gibo now has officially lost any modicum of decency and I'll not back off in the slightest until he acknowledges how offensive and utterly inappropriate his comments have become.

Nevertheless, even if I was pro porn, that wouldn't equate to pedophilia. Col Rouge has highlighted that situation in an apt manner.

Gibo's comments were just loopy when he was on about flying saucers and prophecies.

When he discarded the evidence put in front of him, and continued to put forward his insane theories, that was all well and good. I suppose some people find ignoring comments and facts necessary.

But now he is using that same ignorance to pretend that those opposed to censorship are doing it for evil reasons.

He won't even accept the other side has a point. He simply can't see the arguments against censorship - when he takes that disrespect of other views, bundles it up with words like 'coward,' accuses people of being pedophiles... simply because people like myself believe censorship is not a tool to be trusted to government, well, he has lost any right to respect.

I'll not recommend his comment for deletion, and I'd hope the others he accused of being pedophiles don't either.
As long as this thread stands, a link can be provided to this thread. Thus, when Gibo makes similarly nasty comment elsewhere, the link can be provided, and decent people can come here, and view his nastiness for themselves, and make up their own minds.

See, that's the beauty of things when censorship isn't present - we're free to view it, and decide for ourselves.

TLTR "I'll not recommend his comment for deletion, . . . See, that's the beauty of things when censorship isn't present - we're free to view it, and decide for ourselves."

Exactly TLTR!

I totally and unreservedly agree with you.

On some boards where my identity can be more embellished than here I state the following as a "signature"

"Freedom of Speech distinguishes between the Sage and the Fool based on the merit of their words.
Censorship treats their words the same."

Let Gibo's words stand as testament to that enduring truth.

The Sage will always support anti-censorship.

It is only the Fool who benefits.

Oh well...the lord of the site has spoken and my comment got deleted.
Alas, my heart is still the same. I guess I just have to watch my expressions.
At least you know now how some view the pro-porner and the pro-free speecher who supports the porn.
My life decision is that many so-called real men who stand on boxes all over this great land and waffle on about how dark is good and right is wrong are not strong enough morally to fight in a good army against dark powers. Eh? Boys.

Everyone....take a deeeep breath.... grab a nice juicy Eucalyptus leaf and crush it and soak up the beautiful scent.....

Ok..now we are ready.

The BEST form of censorship is the voluntary kind. When the rivival exploded in Whales in 1905 pubs went out of business because the 'drunkards' got their lives right with God and stopped buying grog.

BUGSY.. the connection between porn and unhealthy attitudes to women, is in the area of 're-inforcement'. Sure, men might develop those attitudes from family and friends etc..but then, porn simply confirms and reinforces this.

Makeing porn illegal might not stop or eliminate it, but it WILL send a clear moral message to the community which puts such debasing and disgusting material in the correct place 'the RUBBUSH' bin.

Remember... our laws are mean't to be a reflection of OUR desires..so to make it illegal is quite legitimate if we can get the democractic numbers, and I sure have been trying :)

I am at a complete loss as to why ANOTHER porn discussion has been approved.

I had no intention of adding to it, however, TRTL made an interesting point: "...... Gibo. I fear your kind - the kind that thinks it has the right to mould people how they want - far more than any pornographer."

People who use scare tactics to enforce their point of view are always to be regarded at best, with the height of scepticism and at worst, dangerous. So I guess I'd have to say that I'd prefer to choose the pornographer over the Gibos. But that's kind of like choosing a KFC over Fairy floss - neither make a particularly healthy diet, but pure sugar is likely to kill you sooner.

I have been pilloried on Gibo's other porn thread for trying to put the emphasis on a healthy approach to sexuality, starting with education of our children - somehow this had been interpreted that I wish to ban porn, no I don't - I'd just like to see really good porn as opposed to the McPorn than treats women, girls and boys as sexual receptacles. What is so wrong about wanting to work towards a happier healthier world? Why should I have to accept the current dismal state of our sexual attitudes as that's how it is, accept it?

We have managed to make many advances towards a more humane approach with regard to schooling, equality of opportunity, racism - compared to 100 years ago we have made fantastic progress. But we still have a very male dominated view of what constitutes sexuality. Well there are other equally valid POV's be they from hetero women or gays or lesbians.

What I find particularly upsetting is the prevailing attitude that as long as it doesn't involve children, then it doesn't matter. Well, it does matter, it must matter if parents would not actively encourage their children to work as prostitutes or porn actors. Doesn't anyone see the paradox here?

Apparently on OLO if you're not with something, then you must be agin' it. Sheeesh!

When Gibo wrote about witchcraft in the other thread, i could only let out a sigh inside. it honestly made me think of witch-burners and so on more than two hundred years ago. His view of pornography is absolutely mythical. I bet the religious 'education' he has endured has so corrupted his thinking to the degree he can't think about pornography without hearing a Devil's voice talking in his ear. And he has my pity for that. Even BOAZ is intelligent enough to realise his views are purely religious and have no basis in reality, though his fervour for controlling others in most times is uncontrollable.

"Well StG and Bugsy showed themselves to be cowards when it comes to caring for and loving the women and children of tomorrow..."

Many women enjoy pornography, Gibo. Not quite as much as men because they are biologically different, but they do... of course this excludes many feminists that have been taught to hate the empowerment and opportunities it provides women and to hate men who enjoy the natural attraction to the grace of women. i have a feeling their assault on pornography, combined with the churches over the last several decades has validated your beliefs. it would have been hard to avoid since the media love to be activists in this area. And last i checked the catholic church had a systemic problem with caring for children, even when protected by god, on his holy ground and by his holiest of priests

As I said on my other porn thread "Why no federal government study on pornography" the evidence that porn creates crime is irrefutable.
To those who live lives, not in or out of books or off the internet websites, but out of real life experience as any policeman has lived, we know that as the porn spreads so do the brothels, as do the pimps extend their drugs and handguns into the situations to dope up their prostitutes; and to protect their turf.
In my own community in Sydney some years there were no porn shops and hardly a brothel. Years later both abound because they are interlinked.
I guess the global porn/sex crime scene simply isnt dark enough for most writers here to realise whats going on.
The day will come when society will have to make a decision either to ban the filth... or permit social collapse.
It might be that God will bring it all down in the Great Tribulation before we wake up to the self-destruction caused by our ungodly, idiotic behaviour.
Every single civilisation that danced with sexual immorality, idolatry and sacrifice (murdered its babies as in todays abortion)... has gone.
You read the history books but you dont pay attention. You hear what you want to hear because you've been primed in this modern age to focus on yourselves.
Maybe in Gods Sight we are indeed deserving of that invader I spoke about.
1,000 Chinese spies on Australian already tell me its too far off.
...though I reckon a national confession of sin and full Christian revival might just save the day.

.....NOT too far off....

BOAZ “The BEST form of censorship is the voluntary kind. When the rivival exploded in Whales in 1905 pubs went out of business because the 'drunkards' .....”

The revival in “Whales”?

Are those Whales as concerned with those Japanese harpoonists of today, as they were with the drunks of a 100 years ago.

As for “The BEST form of censorship is the voluntary kind.”

That is a self contradiction. Censorship which is “voluntary” is not censorship at all but people exercising their own discretion.

“Making porn illegal might not stop or eliminate it, but it WILL send a clear moral message to the community which puts such debasing and disgusting material in the correct place 'the RUBBUSH' bin.”

Wrong

All that would happen is the whole industry would go underground and what is now say $5 for boobpics will become $50 for the same boobpicks, operated by porno-bootleggers.

The problem with an unregulated “illegal” industry includes that the nature of the operation is more dangerous than the legal, hence why Victoria has licenced brothels and legal prostitution, because the risks to the ladies who work in that industry are fewer than working in an illegally operated underground trade.

“Remember... our laws are mean't to be a reflection of OUR desires..”

I would not hold your breath for changing the present arrangement, which has the weight of research to support it and allows you to ignore pornography and those, like me, who enjoy some of it, in moderation or have far more “liberal” and tolerant values than yourself to enjoy that which we appreciate and ignore that which we do not.

The horrors perpetrated in the name of religion and that includes the papal practice of castration of pre-pubescent boys to entertain the cardinals of Rome, the rape of children by the priesthood whilst preaching wholesale sexual repression to the faithful far exceeds anything done in the name of the pornography which is produced by consenting adults.

Gibo

“the evidence that porn creates crime is irrefutable.”

produce the evidence or be branded a LIAR

Those feminists who have sympathy for the attempts by religious extremists to limit what other people choose to do with their bodies might like to consider "Every single civilisation that danced with sexual immorality, idolatry and sacrifice (murdered its babies as in todays abortion)... has gone." You could check historical posts by our religious fundies on the topic of abortion if you think Gibo's comment is an isolated one.

This crowd have no respect for other peoples rights over their own bodies, not the rights of those who choose to appear in porn, the rights of those who choose to watch it nor the rights of those who might wish to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. The views of their mythical god tromp on everybody elses rights, any research that proves something contrary to what they think that their god believes and any concepts of decency and compassion.

At the heart of this debate is a core issue, should adults have the right to determine what they do with their own bodies? If the answer is yes then increased restrictions is not the answer but rather trying to find mechanisms to reduce any negative impacts. If you don't believe people should have right to determine what they do with their own boedies then increased censorship and little or no access to abortion is where this leads.

R0bert

Col.... I see your passion about the organized Catholic Church history, and can only say you simply need to go back to what it CLAIMS is it's foundation.. compare the foundation with the history and draw your informed conclusions about what happened along the way.

Regarding regulated porn, regulated brothels.. HAHAHAHAH ROFL x 100

:) mate.. that was once a 'reasonable argument' i.e.. beFORE they legalized them... so what happened SINCE they legalized the brothels?

aaah.. we have underground Asian sex slaves in abundance, we have many illegal brothels cropping up everywhere, we have all manner of problems which were supposed to be stamped out by legalizing and controlling it all..
So that argument is entirely falacious.

SMOKING.. I was discussing with a mate in gym today about this. He quit for a while and his performance improved in exercise. Now, back on the drug his performance is weaker. I asked him "Don't the graphic pictures put you off?" he said "They worked for about 2 weeks"
Then I said.. hmm maybe they should put some nauseating chemical in the smokes to put people off smoking. Then, it occurred to me that then there would arise a bustling trade in 'non nauseating tobacco'

In short..it doesn't matter how much you 'legalize' something, there is always the 'next level' which is illegal, yet thrives.
Same withj Porn. You legalize it and the next level of filth will then be created and thrive.

Dear TRTL,

I'm sorry that it's taken me so long to respond to your comment to me.
But I had gone over my post limit and was unable to do so.

Of course you are right. Labelling people and name calling should not be part of this Forum.

No matter how different are the viewpoints or how deeply someone feels about any given subject - they should remain in control, and not stoop to personal insults.

If they do, then according to any rules of civilized debating, they've lost the argument.

Gibo, you really should stop and think - before you do any name-calling in your future posts. Accept the fact that not everybody is going to agree with you. That's the nature of The Forum.
Insulting people turns them off. That's not what you want is it?

BOAZ “In short..it doesn't matter how much you 'legalize' something, there is always the 'next level' which is illegal, yet thrives.
Same withj Porn. You legalize it and the next level of filth will then be created and thrive.”

Then I presume you prefer to see us all live the life of the regulated autonyms. Mindless, colorless, all doing exactly what the state or the religious authorities want. No one with the will power to vary from the prescribed path of the deity.

The death of innovation.
The death of art.
The death of passion.

A pointless existence!

Everything done in step to the will of the censor.

Enough to make a thinking man wish for death.

Gibo “The evidence Col is my testimony.”

And my testimony contradicts your testimony. However, I can list link after link of objective reports, studies and statistics which support my testimony and all you present are accusations that those who condemn censorship are perverts.

You present the opposite of compelling argument.

Foxy “Gibo, you really should stop and think”

If he did that, I doubt he would have started this thread, following the trouncing the last one got.

Gibo says "Its a small mind that pushes aside life experience testimonies to look for vacant reports."

As far as I can see whats being disagreed with is not Gibo's life experience but rather his interpretation of what he has experienced. There is a significant difference.

Gibo if you really believe what you have written then consider that my life experience has shown me that the christain god is not real.

Do you feel compelled to agree with me because it's my life experience or do you feel free to have and express a differing opinion?

If you have not declared yourself an agnostic by this point then please stop with the stuff about people pushing aside your life experience. It's a cop out to avoid having to support the assertions you make with evidence, to avoid having to consider that your life experience may not be the sum total of all human knowledge, to avoid considering that your analysis of what you have experienced may be coloured by your beliefs and values and could be flawed.

R0bert

Gibo "Its a small mind that pushes aside life experience testimonies to look for vacant reports."

It is a smaller mind which cannot find objective reports to support a life experience testimonies.

Whilst I think my “life experience” is extensive, varied and rich, I do not think my “life experience” is broader than other folks

It is the small minded who believe other people are in constant need of guidance and fail to understand the cognitive capacity of strangers.

For myself, I accept neither responsibility nor credit for the actions, sagacious or foolish, of other people.

I do believe the chaos which describes the way most of us muddle through life is the best way to be. The minutely regulated and orderly world of the authoritarianists, who believe we must all conform to standards of niceness and regularity, is blinded by conformity.

They fail to see that from the chaos of our lifes, in which people do drugs, get drunk, have affairs, watch and or participate in pornography or S&M, read dirty books, have abortions, write salacious love letters to clandestine lovers and indulge in many things which would exceed the imagination of the god botherers -

Is the same chaos in which people pursue their individual values, aspirations and passions from which comes forth the creativity to invent, paint, sculpt, compose and inspires others to greater things.

The chaos in which we bend, fail, stumble.
Is the same chaos which teaches us the value of free will.
The precious rights of personal choice and liberty
and the evil oppression of censorship.

I am not sure how broad are Gibo’s “life experiences”. I do not presume my life experiences are broader than other folk but I am sure I do understand more of what I do not know than Gibo is prepared to admit what he does not know

and in that lays the difference between us, my knowledge has taught me something of humility.

In whatever passes for Gibos “life knowledge”, humility is still in the “to do” list.

Col says:

The death of innovation.
The death of art.
The death of passion.

will be the result if we all toe the line of the "religious authorities"

Col.. some of the greatest Art has emerged from hearts vitally linked to Christ. Handel's messiah is but one example. The Cistine Chapel artwork is another.

The only kind of 'passion' which will be cast aside if we embrace Christ is the dirty kind. In fact.. as Jesus said he came to 'set the captive free' I suggest that by opening our hearts to Him, we will be more free than we can imagine to reach the heights of achievement hithertoo undreamt of.

I can almost see the dark canopy of 'Institutionalized religion' hovering over your mind.... such that you are constantly avoiding it..and rightly so. But please.. the image you appear to have in your mind is not what Christ, and knowing Him is all about.

He came that we might have ABUNDANT life..not mediocre, not short changed, not stifled....but also, not degraded or sinful.

We don't need degrading pornography to enjoy the fullness of life in Him, and we cannot, by the power of any 'religious authority' put it in anyone's heart.

You should take legal action if youre genuinely offended StG.
Stand up and be a man and take it to a lawyer.
My belief is that anyone into porn is no different from the description I originally extended.
Go to your lawyer.

BOAZ “The only kind of 'passion' which will be cast aside if we embrace Christ is the dirty kind. In fact..”

That is for God to do, not you.

“He came that we might have ABUNDANT life..not mediocre, not short changed, not stifled....but also, not degraded or sinful.”

Abundance of life is only achieved by exercise of the freewill we all have. You cannot have the exercise of freewill without risking “sin”.

“I can almost see the dark canopy of 'Institutionalized religion'”

If you see it so well, you will understand what a pervasive evil it has been throughout the centuries.

“We don't need degrading pornography to enjoy the fullness of life in Him, and we cannot, by the power of any 'religious authority' put it in anyone's heart.”

We do not need telephones, books, motorcars or doughnuts, they are all wants.

The difference between us is, i do not presume to tell people what they are entitled to “want”.

I presume they are cognitive human beings, who know perfectly well how they wish to spend their disposable income. If it be on pornography then so be it.

Gibo “My belief is that anyone into porn is no different from the description I originally extended.”

My belief is, anyone who expresses your beliefs is a simpleton.

The lack of objective evidence to support your personal view displays a profound lack of reasoning or understanding or what is expected when engaging in debate.

Other little snippets of your views confirm a small mind, unable to see beyond its own close and closed horizon.

If you want to gain respect for your view, start by respecting the rights and views of others. Reference objective evidence to support your own conjecture.

One of the reasons I dislike organized religion is because of the practice where the pastor preaches whatever rubbish he wants, without right of reply from the floor. I have heard the rubbish of religious dogma and bigotry. No man of value can listen to it without being inspired to shout down the social engineering and other rubbish from the floor

Gibo, it doesn't work like that.

Are you aware, that if people do have a case against you, they would have to bring it against OLO, not you?

You would only feel secondary effects, while OLO feels the full brunt.

But, I suppose it's easy to have ignorant bravado, especially when others are the ones who will cop it for your transgressions.

I hope nobody does take legal action against you, because it's OLO that would suffer, for taking a liberal stance on censorship which has allowed you, gibo, to spout all kinds of hateful nuttery.