Liberals are calling for our thoughts on how they can regain office.
Not they say how they lost it but ideas on what we think about current and future directions.
I am known to be ALP to the bone but have opinions and an understanding weak oppositions make for bad government.
Not bias but honestly held view on current form it will be a long time before their return to power.
Stop the opposition for oppositions sake, it grates on the public.
Fear does the same very few of us think not going to Japan on his trip was an act of war by Rudd.
The carers bonus, well it insults voters truly does, to highlight what Rudd might do but not admit no plans existed for it to be paid by a returned Howard government.
Last the NSW right surely must be contained? that it has not yet been done is evidence the task ahead is not yet achievable.

Belly

I agree that inept oppositions make for poor government.

How ludicrous to attempt to discredit Rudd for not visiting Japan, when we have issues of climate change, the crisis of indigenous people, resource depletion, development of sustainable living schemes, badly eroded infrastructure: education, health, transport, lack of support for small business and the list goes on.

Do the Libs still think they are on the election campaign? Their feeble attempts thus far would indicate they still think it is 2007.

The election is over, time to get on with their job as an effective opposition to keep the government on track and govern FOR Australians instead of corporations.

“How ludicrous to attempt to discredit Rudd for not visiting Japan, when we have issues of climate change, the crisis of indigenous people, resource depletion, development of sustainable living schemes, badly eroded infrastructure: education, health, transport, lack of support for small business and the list goes on.”

Posted by Fractelle, Thursday, 3 April 2008 9:08:53 AM

More to the point, what the hell is Rudd doing overseas at all when he has all of these problems to address at home!

Oppositions often fall into the trap of playing devils advocate on every issue - find the chink and exploit.

Whether the current federal opposition, or Simon Crean when he was Opposition leader, or Barry O'Farrell (NSW state) ... they all seem to focus on the negatives and avoid the positives.

What won a lot of votes for Kevin Rudd was his "metoosim's" ... the fact that he could accept that some of the existing policies were sound. The same happened for Nick Greiner ... he applauded some of Labour's decisions.

If an opposition leader is forever whining the ear quickly turns off ... the occassional compliment can go a long way to winning back those middle of the road voters who obviously agreed with the incumbent's initial campaign.

My two cents to Brendon Nelson would be to fix up your own house first - it's a long time before the next election and now is the time to have a good clean. For the state based oppositions review Nick Greiner and Kevin Rudd's successes - some me too's can be very positive.

Dear Corri,

I couldn't agree more. Brendan Nelson needs to fix his own house first. The Libs 'scare tactics' last election, and now their constant whinging, - plus Nelson's unimaginative 'sorry' speech, - all add up to a rather poor image.

Also, as Fractelle stated - they really need to realize that it is people that matter not corporations!

Yes, indeed!

The only reason Rudd was saying "metoo" is because he agreed to moving his party toward the political right. This is very bad for democratic representation. When you have two choices that are almost identical and revel in their own political rhetoric both wanting to be the mainstream 'centre', you essentially get a dictatorship. The average Australian is choosing between two oranges from the same corrupt tree.

Steel love to debate you on that issue, in another thread.
If I am to give my opinion to conservatives it will be what I truly think best serves them.
Do exactly what Rudd did, become inclusive yesterday Brendan Nelson was uncovered as the wrong man for the job.
We heard he told a group of bankers they should not be criticized for raising interest rates.
He reminded those who have lost homes that it was no fun for those who had to take them.
If it is true it still is childlike to say it, tell the kids living in some cases caravans to feel good about it.
See the fact is Nelson has directed his whole leadership and every act at winning voters he already has not winning lost ones back.
Why not plan to fix branches? a stranger in a north shore of Sydney one will not get in the door unless from the very right faction.
Why are subjects like climate change fuel prices water saving seen as ALP only?
Why is the Liberal party seen as the party of business not middle Australia?
Have the national party become part of the Liberal party but call it the country Liberal party.
Need for change is so very bad not one government in power but waiting for Labor to go stale is surrender.

Steel,

No one is interested in the far left anymore or its ideologies. They have shown themselves to be unmitigated failures everywhere they have ever been implemented.

Shows your contempt for the people ( and your ignorance )to suggest that we don't have the political parties we want. We undoubtedly do have the two parties we want broadly speaking.

Just look at the performances of the greens, the democrats and independents to see no-one is interested in the loony left anymore.

who said anything about far left? doesn't look like the far right is very unpopular either does it. Paul L. you need to drop that pastisan nonsense.

"Shows your contempt for the people ( and your ignorance )to suggest that we don't have the political parties we want. We undoubtedly do have the two parties we want broadly speaking."

You missed the entire point...Again your partisanship is blinding you a little bit. Most Australians support gay rights, for example and the current situation is clearly discriminatory yet both parties not only refused to take on the view but amended the constitution to make the discrimination law. That is just one example.

This is my point: What we have at the moment are two parties that are almost identical. They both trying to be each other.

Dear Steel,

Amazing ... you and my brother think alike. He also said,

"Why is it that if we made the members of both major political parties swap places, after two days no one would notice the difference?"

What does it mean?

There used to be major differences, what happened?

The major differences remain Foxy but are insidious.

At last year's Young Liberal Conference in Melbourne, young liberals voted for:

1. Unrestrained tobacco advertising

2. Nuclear power

3. Seniors ineligible for aged pension until the age of 70

4. Do nothing about climate change until there is absolute "conclusive" evidence.

These are some of the right wing ideologies on which the Liberal Party currently remain silent.

However, the State Labor Party in my state are appallingly inept and the bad days of WA Inc have re-emerged to reveal a Labor party which is heavily aligned with industry. The state government is intent on trashing WA's very fragile environment, having become sycophants to big business. The Liberal philosophy of unrestrained "Free Trade" is alive and well in the Labor Party.

Former State Labor Premier and gaol-bird Brian Burke has cost the WA taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars over the WA Inc scandal of the 80's and the current improprieties of politicians doing business with this man, who has plied his "trade" to get big business in the back door which has been to the serious detriment of WA's citizens.

Treasurer Eric Ripoff - sorry Ripper, has the ignominious title of WA's greediest treasurer ever.

It is no laughing matter (though some giggle through ignorance) when a community, so sickened by pollution, has resorted to employing Erin Brockovich to represent them in a case against a big polluter who is pumping it out, without restraint, while a state government is protecting the polluter and blatantly lying to its constituents.

So it's a case of damned if we do, damned if we don't. Nevertheless, Items 1-4 above should be heeded since these policies will be implemented if the Conservatives gain power.

Both parties are a disgrace, however, while citizens continue to criticise only from their arm-chairs, we must decide which party is the lesser of two evils.

Before we leave the threads intended path I highlight the rubbish conservatives are posting in our articles section.
Hammering Rudd and Labor with fear lies and untruths is like a flogging with a feather duster, nothing at all.
If we look truly look we will see such tactics clearly say voters can not think for themselves , like panicked sheep will flock back to conservatives not for food[ policy's] but in fear of the big bad wolf.
Policy's gentlemen not anything else.
Now back to the thread within a thread.
The very left has no product voters want to buy, ok even I want some of the things old Labor would give me.
But after so many failed elections and 2 term governments, after workchoices and 11 years of john Howard.
I want an ALP government that voters want.
It will take 3 terms to undo the last 11.
Can I ask readers to consider this? without Rudd, without a steady as she goes ALP we would have John Howard still in the lodge.
Do not fear my party at last saying we must hear the voters, and watch this country change for the better.
While very much left of center I will never forget that the very left is an anchor thrown overboard while the ALP ship is under full sail.

Hmmm ... a request for a *pHOENIx mANOUEVEREr* by the enemy?
An offering to the *Luv Poppets* will have 2 b considered.
...
Rather perhaps more than:

Learn another language, gain another *Soul*
Learn another language, & gain greater expression for thine own *Soul*

It goes to the cohesion of thought form and the consequential meaning potentials derived from different combinations of thought and feeling.

Instead of:
" ... and b4 he was *pREz* he was George Washington the WarrioR ... "

Rather the Australian "Socio/Medical" model and appeal to their very strong social and family ethos.

A gift, of sorts - *cOMPUTEr pOPPETs* I giv U *Cap'n Hooey*

http://www.liputan6.com/mediaplayer/?program=news&id=157329&m_id=708279

...Adam...

It states in relation to:
HOUSTON David Bruce
Possession 3.5g's "Dry Cannabis Leaf"
Excuse: In order to alleviate back pain.

Dear *Mrs Hooey*

I am not a legal expert, so pls consider taking what I say with a pinch of salt,
but *David's* excess consumption of marajuana came to the attention of "Men's Club" approximately 3 years ago from memory, resulting in a direction for me to refer *David* to:

http://www.drneilbeck.com/

which I did. However, the matter was left up to *David* as to whether or not he took *Men's Club* advice as he was not yet considered a candidate for the P.E.T. team. I assume that perhaps he did not? This is "good" in some ways as things currently are as it demostrates what the Drs refer to as a lack of insight. And it would appear that *David's* continued habit of "self medicating" extended all the way to that desire over-riding his common sense not to do this in a country with very harsh penalties like Indonesia.

My view, *David's* case is more medical than criminal.

Of course, given that the politicians are currently negotiating a "prisoner exchange" program, if U had an admissable testimony from a Dr like *Neil* I consider that this could well be in *David's* advantage. After all, they let the model girl go who claimed the much harder synthetic drug "ecstasy" that she was caught with was actually her anti-depressant medication.

And further, and again I am no expert, but *David* very likely has a mild leaning disability and this goes to potentially a succesfull arguement that this problem further imapired his judgement. I tutored *David* for many years during primary school as he was one of those that was always behind and I was always ahead, most especially in mathematics.

Anyway, notwithstanding the fact that I have been "advised" well away from making any direct representations on *David's* behalf, I thought the least I could do was to offer U another point of view for your deliberations in his interests.

I had no idea the articles section was your section as you put it.

Does this make it another labor party love fest site Belly.

But then, do we care?

Why not let him b buried in solitary for his crimes
(Not that that is what he is in for)
in a sensorially deprived environment.

Then, if anyone says anything about medication later, just blow pipe in a pill & bury the coroner's report in the "UnClassified" section of an under resourced, under staffed, give a ___k department, as is the case of at least one *BlakFella* that I know of.

...Adam...

Sorry should duck my head and run away, its the best thing to do, we all do it if walking on the street and some one shouts rude words.
Or seems to be lost in a world of their own, we walk away run sometimes.
The thread is dead our site owner says it is an open forum and he owns it, yes he does and sometimes not rare but often it is going to be used by some we run away from.
It can not be any other way, freedom of speech is worth while.
Last post for me in this thread but can any reasonable person, tell me that you thought I claimed personal ownership of the articles section?
A J Breton? run away Belly you can do nothing here.
But like 100 murdered threads just maybe we should all be concerned, are we served by a conservative movement that most likely is about to change leadership but not directions.
And that true open debate on politics is so very hard in a forum that is also about politics.

"Coalition need to realize that people matter more than Corporations"
(Foxy)

"I am 'ALP' to the core" (Belly)

"Oppositions look for the chink..and exploit it" (Corri)

"time to get on with their job as an effective opposition to keep the government on track and govern FOR Australians instead of corporations."

There seems to be an unspoken assumption here that when the ALP were in opposition, they did not do the very things everyone is mentioning..except not for 'corporations'.. rather.. 'workers' (which of course impacts on the competitiveness and viability of 'corporations'.

The conservative think tank should be thinking how to represent the broad cross section of Australians both corporate and worker. But do leapords change their spots? Will the ALP when next in opposition seek to represent other than organized 'Labor'- as per its name?

Our democratic system is driven primarily by 'me'ism... selfishness.. greed.. and I suspect the higher up the party peck order one goes, and the more one is exposed to, the more this will become apparent on both sides of politics. Advertizing deals.. Consultancy deals...etc etc..

Fill in the blanks "......is not 'of' this world" :)

BOAZ DAVID your comments bought me back to the thread that post was at least rational debate.
Weigh my posts along side some from conservatives in this forum, look at young Dans effort just yesterday.
Do you see much of my party right or wrong in my posts? seen my anti NSW Labor comments?
I try for balance, and have true concerns for the state of conservative Australian politics.
Yes welded on Labor but my party fails me often heard of Woolongong NSW? a weak opposition , Labor in power no need to perform is death for my party.
Not one state, no chance in federal Parliament for years ,yet some blame Labor?
Is it not clear that most Australians voted Labor in each state?
Look in this forum see people say I will stand, know 2% is the best they can get two in every hundred!
Conservatives turn a federal member away from his branch just because he is not from their right wing faction?
I have a question David would you EVER vote for a party or candidate you thought was criminal or the wrong one?
I never would, have walked into the polling booth and not voted for my party because the candidate was unworthy.
I vote Labor because they best serve my wishes but a balanced Parliament does too, no such animal can exist until conservatives confront the reality of their messy problems.
Wollongong blackens my party NSW shames it too but the conservative right of the Liberal party is as bad as all those crimes maybe worse.

Yes i am proud and 2% well thats a start.

I am proud that i stood as an independent

I am proud that i stood up to represent the people

I am proud that i do not bend over for party politics

I am proud that i can fight against those who are corrupt and deceptive.

We can look at Heiner, the justice project, how the labor party and unions did what they did.

I am proud to be able to have my say and not be threatened with expulsion

So i am proud that i will be running again for the people so that the people have a voice in parliament, where someone will stand and say no that is not good enough for the people of this electorate.

You talk about parties when in fact you should be talking about the people and their communities.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent

Tapp,

Yawn .....

PaulL you make your point however the thread is not about dreams even bad ones it is about the fact conservatives need direction, for this country's sake.
87% of this country's voters vote for them or Labor and will continue to do so, that number is conservative two party preferred has meaning.
Right now getting rid of Nelson is the wrong move he is in fact useful because a new leader in some months time can be seen as real improvement and nelson can be blamed for much.
But surely if he makes some of the unpopular changes now he can serve his party best.
In my view conservatives should
Have one party nation wide ,like Labor have a country branch.
Get openness into Branch's and welcome new members new ideas.
Stop niggling in the house on dead issues and lies but not on good opposition.
Have a national policy's debate asking all to get involved.
Review policy's on Iraq, why fight Labor if most voters agree?
Above all get back to the middle ground they once controlled so well, it hurts the party to insult those who once had been Howard's battlers by idiotic statements like that bankers one from Brendon Nelson, how did it win one vote?

This week started with that poll result 73% think Rudd is the man for the job, but poor Brendon?
Less than 10% the need for change is so very bad that conservatives must act, I was wrong, we all are often.
Brendon must go now he has become a joke, my idea he could be dumped latter and blamed for much was wrong.
Victoria may be the birth place of a united conservative party it has been spoken of for the upcoming by election maybe 5 more Conservative seats will face such elections by this time next year.
The party should look to its selection process and pick the best candidates it matters very much who they pick.

Steel “When you have two choices that are almost identical and revel in their own political rhetoric both wanting to be the mainstream 'centre', you essentially get a dictatorship.”

When I was in UK in 1970s under the pendulum of labour versus conservatives there were traumatic changes to national policy depending who was in power, I used to look envyingly at USA where the US republicans were considered to be something like the UK conservatives and the US democrats were considered to be something like the UK conservatives and wish some commonality of approach could be worked out. In the end the old labour party and its cronies of the left have been assigned to the dustbin of failed political causes. The whole of western democratic politics has shifted to the right as a consequence.

The point, a democracy can work as well with two centrist parties or a centre skewed from where it might seem now.

The “dictatorship” comes in when there is no alternative to the incumbent government, regardless of the similarity of policy/manifesto.

If they have both got it right, what we are left to elect is the individuals, not the party politics and somehow, I think that might be a better thing.

Right or left, every political persuasion has its thinkers. The Fabians or the Monday club. The best way to find the best policies is by discussion, bouncing ideas and values around d with other thinkers. The think tanks are where those discussions take place. Dictatorship would be more at home where the despot decided on everything and I do recall the political intelligentsia were some of the first to go under Stalin.

As for "two oranges from the same corrupt tree."

I would note, both parties have proceeded to respect the democratic process. I fail to see where the "corruption" comes from. Certainly you could not be comparing them to the left of politics when no communist government has ever come to power, except by violent revolution and usually the murder of the democratically elected assembly.

I will vote for them, and lend them support via my website, if they adopt carbon taxes (offset by other tax reductions) instead of carbon trading as climate change policy. This is not just a federal issue as the state government could impliment most of them if they wanted. This will be better for both the economy and the environment than labor's policy.

Similarly for water - uniform pricing across drainage systems instead of rationing and subsidies.

Who however would vote conservative this very day?
It is true that poor oppositions make for poor governments and at this point in time I can not see myself voting for my party in NSW
But could I vote conservative?
If they have a plan why do we not know it now?
Howard was right you can not fatten a pig on market day.
To see Brendon Nelson an ex Labor man who never truly smiles leading federal Conservatives so badly is proof they need to move.
It seems to me putting an alternative way in place is step one why the silence?

12 or even 18 months from now as a few people get sick of Labor and Rudd Howard could step on the stage again.
But given the polling and it is so bad for them last nights meal should have been eaten in a blacked out coal mine.
It did no good that pig is going to have to eat fast even in NSW no real change is in sight.