I find this conversation about pornography, that seems to pervade OLO over several threads lately, quite fascinating. While I personally find pornography generally quite boring and often distasteful, I've argued that I see no strong argument for banning it as far as consenting adults are concerned.

This position makes me a curious bedfellow (so to speak) with some correspondents, with whom I share a passion for the defence of free speech and expression, if nothing else. While I haven't noticed anybody much arguing that porn is a force for 'good'. neither has any of the very vocal anti-porn contingent produced any solid evidence that it is 'bad'.

As far as I can tell, the arguments against pornography here depend entirely upon opinion, which is based on ideology or personal taste, rather than upon reliable evidence or valid research.

For example, we have the Christian nutters like Gibo, Boazy and runner, who say that they don't care if their wowserism is supported by evidence or not, because they say their God doesn't approve:

Gibo: "Nothing needs to be proven re: porn and sex crime.
We know human nature.
We see the sex crime.
There is no other influence known to be causing it. "

One wonders why Gibo calls for a study, since he won't accept its findings - not that he'd understand them.

Boazy: "Forget the Stats... Porn is degrading, evil, disgusting, insulting to God and dehumanizing...full stop."

Because God and Boazy et al say so.

[cont]

[cont]

I'm afraid that I find the 'feminist' versions of wowserism just as unconvincing. While they are dressed up as being more evidence-based than their godbothering counterparts, ultimately they are unable to cite any convincingly scientific evidence to support their case. Like the Christian wowsers, pornography offends the morality derived from their ideology, so they don't really care if their objections are based on scientific reality - porn is exploitative, degrading, offensive etc... because they don't like it.

Sorry, but none of these are strong arguments. The fact that it's apprently a substantial industry indicates that there are many consumers of this stuff out there, and I submit that they have rights that outweigh those who ultimately simply diapprove of porn for ideological reasons.

That doesn't mean that I actively like or support pornography - in fact, it's on about the same level as Rugby League in my list of interests. However, those who bleat on about how wicked, degrading, evil etc that pornography is would need to present far stronger arguments, based on hard evidence, before I would change that assessment.

I reiterate that I'm talking about pornography that is consumed and produced by consenting adults. Any other kind is, of course, repugnant and properly illegal.

Yeah the rape of children, the degradation of men and women, the marriage breakups are not enough to convince people. How blind and hard hearted can people possibly be. At least some feasting on this perversion are honest enough to admit they are in bondage to this rubbish. Others hide behind the supposedly intellectual arguement of defending free speech. You argue that the opponents of porn lack proof and yet you are totally blinded by your perverted hearts.

CJ

You said: "I reiterate that I'm talking about pornography that is consumed and produced by consenting adults. Any other kind is, of course, repugnant and properly illegal."

Is it illegal? I haven't seen a lot of porn, I admit, but even so what I saw was very degrading to women. Women were little more than receptacles for whatever some men wanted to insert into whichever orifice they chose. I don't see how this type of porn is enlightening for young males (or girls).

Sex is great fun, have yet to see porn than presents it as a joy for all the participants.

I reiterate; I do not call for censorship. Just regulation so that the extreme stuff isn't made. As for the other less extreme stuff; just greater restriction on who gets to view it.

How often have I talked about educating our boys and girls to respect other on this thread?

Even you have labelled as "feminists" those who are for banning it completely. How do you know they are feminists? There are plenty of "feminists' like myself who are simply calling for moderation, that's all and there are feminists who don't have a problem with porn at all: the rainbow spectrum of human opinion? So please desist from the labelling - feminists are no more a single homogenous group than any other.

It is all very well saying that you, find it boring, clearly there are many men who don't, because the industry is such a money spinner. Clearly there are men who like to be stimulated by women as receptacles, because I guess, a real women with real needs and desires is just too scary. Hell, she may even want to be satisfied.

Imagine porn that actually showed a couple making love; real pleasure, real joy, real tenderness - I'd like to see that.

BTW, a question that has yet to be answered, posted by both Pelican and myself:

Would you actively encourage your daughter into a "career" in prostitution or porn acting if you believe it is so harmless?

Fractelle: "I don't see how this type of porn is enlightening for young males (or girls)."

It's not supposed to be enlightening! It's mostly supposed to be a masturbatory aid. In that sense, porn is entirely fit for purpose.

Fractelle: "Sex is great fun, have yet to see porn than presents it as a joy for all the participants."

Well, that's odd, because over 90% of porn* presents it self as just that. The boys are all well-hung and up for it, the girls are big-breasted and gagging for it. They're all "sex objects" — men and women alike. You can find the sort of porn you'd prefer — sex within a loving relationship — but the market is mostly for pumped-up pumping. Guess it's all about how you define fun.

Despite a gazillion studies, it doesn't appear that porn is particularly harmful. Working in porn, on the other hand, generally isn't fun. I say this on every porn thread — the porn industry is pretty depressing. Like the real acting world, a few stars make gazillions, most get about the same amount of money they'd get turning a trick. Porn sets are saturated in drugs — they are the reason why people are there and the reason why they can get through it. For every empowered "I'm working my way through law school!" woman there are a hundred girls who have been sexually abused or, for whatever reasons, have few options, but are extremely pretty. They are very often not happy people. It is very hard to get real statistics about the porn industry because most people have some barrow to push, but some women who work in the industry believe that *most* women who end up acting in porn were sexually abused as children.**

For the record, if my daughter or son were in danger of ending up in porn I would go to the ends of the earth to satisfy myself it was *really* what they wanted to do. I wouldn't be easily satisfied.

*Just made that up, but it's probably true.

For those who think porn or "freedom decisions" towards porn viewing are suitable, I might like to point out that with the pornography and the sex shops that sell the material there comes an increase in brothels in local societies (which has occured) because the men are being increasingly aroused by the films and the photos and like the addict want more than two dimensional, with the brothels comes the pimps, with the pimps comes the drugs they feed to the girls to keep them in bondage, with the pimps comes the underground handguns in order for the pimps to protect their turf, in areas where there are brothels there is an increase in drunkenness because many of the guys wouldnt go to a brothel unless they are drunk, on and on it goes right down to an increase in lone wolf prowlers in vicinities of brothels looking for women in those vicinities... to rubbish in the streets disgarded from the cars of the drunken sexually immoral.
The final analysis: porn increases crime.
To a Holy God there is no difference between the porner, the porn photographer, the pedophile, the pimp, the prostitute and/or the free speecher who says no to changes in freedoms so porn cannot be banned. All are involved in sexual immorality and the fall of a civilisation and need to confess the sin and turn from it to get free from the curses that go with it.