Good points TRTL on Graham's link.

Do naturally obedient people live generally happier lives?

I do know that pessimists tend to see the world realistically, while optimists tend towards a rosy vision.

However, if you don't believe in god: you don't believe in god, I simply cannot believe in the bible anymore than I could change my knowledge that the sun rises in the east.

I would have to pretend to believe and I am sure that this would lead to more mental illness than simply being true to myself.

Believing in a benevolent god is much easier, I guess. It is certainly a great way to justify much that is unjustifiable (ask the people who bomb abortion clinics).

Being true to oneself and to cause no harm are surely more positive ways to live than believing in something that was written when our understanding of the world was rudimentary at best and highly superstitious at worst.

For my final point regarding religious devotion I present:

Gibo and Runner (see, I don't always have to mention Falwell)

;-D

TRTL I agree that it's quite possible that causation runs from personality type to religious/spiritual choice rather than the other way. But it's also possible that she controlled for that (not sure how, but I'd rather check the research than try to second guess her).

I think we'll see if she'll write an article for OLO and that way we'll get a better idea.

BTW, I don't think you should assume that people who are religious accept unquestioningly the dogmas of their faith. Did you know that "Israel" means to struggle with God? If her research is accurate, it would appear that conventionally religious people are less likely to believe in the supernatural than spiritual. That's a little counterintuitive, but if correct underlines my point.

Fractelle,

I suggest that millions more babies are murdered at abortion clinics than the one or two people who have been blown up by fruitcakes. You are now being nearly dishonest as TRTL in his/her posts.

Dear Fractelle,

I'm so sorry to hear about your illness - but happy that you've learnt to cope.

You're a very brave lady.

A great big hug from me as well!

GY - I think it would be a great idea if you could get hold of Aird herself. This article, written for the general consumption of what appears to be a very broad demographic, is couched in terms far too vague to be able actually to draw any conclusions.

One would need an idea of what is understood by religion (e.g. Wicca and Paganism consider themselves religions but Catholics and Methodists consider groups like that as enemies of religion).

We gain very little idea of what is meant by spiritualism here either? at one stage the article seems to be talking about those self-help books, and being self-absorbed, - and truly spiritual persons would probably consider those things as commercialist b.s.

So yes. If one could get an outline, from Aird herself, of what the research involved it would help. As it stands in this article there is really not enough substance for a convincing argument.

Pelican and Foxy - big hugs back atcha, in fact a big hug-fest all round to everyone. (Whitty is probably throwing up – what is it about being positive and caring that brings out the sarcasm from some people?)

I don't consider myself brave just pragmatic.

Romany, I don't know if you know but GrahamY, editor of OLO, is a christian.

As you pointed out, just what constitutes religion is very subjective. For me it is anything that subscribes to a formal set of beliefs, ritual and belief in the supernatural - this is very broad indeed.

What I have tried to do here is explain that many people have a feeling of wonder without it being ascribed to an outside supernatural force.

Two things in particular concern me about formal religion:

1. There is not a single formal religion that treats women are completely equal. The best women get is that we are complimentary to men.

2. The attitude of all religions that their's is the only correct way and opinions to the contrary means that somehow you are lacking in moral fortitude.

Science is showing the interconnectedness of all things - just look at quantum physics. While there may well be an explanation for everything - whether we humans ever discover that is completely unknown. I wonder if we even have the mental capacity for full understanding.

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