"All others who came before Him were thieves and robbers and all who have come since are thieves and robbers." - and there we have the depth of runners understanding of other belief systems, other world views outside his own very narrow view of the world.

It is a much greater and more complex world than you have ever imagined runner. While you keep you head firmly jammed in that tight spot denying the existance of good outside that spot you miss most of the wonder and beauty the universe has to offer. You are the blind man stridently declaring that sunsets have no beauty.

R0bert

I believe that it is the spirit or essence of things that is important and that our bodies, or forms, are merely somewhat clumsy receptacles for that spirit.

Thus, when one gets that overwhelming feeling from studying a tree or simply a blade of grass it is just the spirit of each receptacle recognising the other. I therefore don't see why the idea of a person's spirit lingering for a time after their body has gone is so extraordinary. We have all been in places that "felt good" or felt bad: which to me is just part of that spirit lingering around.

My mother, who was an outgoing, extroverted and entirely practical and fearless person, was yet one of the most spiritual woman I have known. She could walk into a field where a wild horse was running, terrified and hysterical, and calm it within minutes.

Once, in Egypt she walked calmly into a cage where a police dog that was to be put down because it was unmanageable was growling and salivating. People went hysterical and reached for their guns but she just ignored them. Two days later my father took a photo of her with a daft alsation wearing a floppy hat to protect it from the sun snoozing peacefully with her on her surfboard.

Everywhere she went she coaxed lush, beautiful gardens out of stony, rocky or sandy soil and left the place transformed. She was a magical storyteller who could weave indelible words pictures, and would play wild, wonderful or soulful music on the piano for hours. Many long summer evenings we would forget about dinner and sit in darkened rooms, caught up in our dreams and not even noticing the sun had gone down.

She could detect a lie or b.s. from fifty paces, and communicate with one from half a world away.

She was not religious but her Romany spirit taught me all about truth and beauty and connectedness. That spirit reveals itself sometimes from both of my two sons.

Fractelle's belief system appears to coincide perfectly with how Paul described the human condition in his opening statements in his treatise on that subject in relation to God. (His letter to the Romans)

<<since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,>>

Unfortunately, part of the human condition is well illustrated by the words preceeding and following that statement by Paul

Preceeding: <<The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,.....>>

Following: <<so that men are without excuse.>>

I've yet to know of a person truly converted who did not begin with a consciousness of their own sinful condition. We supress truth, when we see the awesome grandure of the Creator, but then we don't allow Him to rule our hearts. This is "alienation."

The Gospel is the good news of "reconciliation"

Fractelle see's the greatness of God, but not her (all of us) own need for reconciliation.

When Jesus said "I am the Way"... he mean't the way of reconciliation to the Creator.

Haha. You lot crack me up. You should all work for Hallmark

Romany

Loved your post - it is that connection that I am talking about. Yes, some people have it and some quite obviously do not (or at least fail to locate it within themselves).

Because spirituality is so personal, so subjective, it is difficult to put into words without sounding a bit mawkish. However, anyone who has followed my posts here at OLO will know I am anything but.

I feel that both the capitalist system of unfettered consumerism (no I am not proposing communism - just that we need some regulation in the free market) along with formal religious dogma, has led to a deadening of our spiritual side. People feel that something is missing and this explains the success of many 'new age' type cults and services and the sense of dislocation that many of us feel.

The balance of our world is misaligned, my hope that with a growing awareness of our impact on the environment we may achieve that balance and harmony yet.

Boaz: "Fractelle see's the greatness of God, but not her (all of us) own need for reconciliation."

Do not put words in my mouth - do not presuppose what I mean - your ability for empathy and understanding are zero; you know nothing about me. All you feel is the truncheon of your religious dogma in your hands and you are completely oblivious to whoever you smite in your zeal. You create division, you are the antithesis to unity.

What I see is a magnificent universe and I am honest enough to admit I don't know how it came to be and I honestly don't care. But one thing I am sure of is that it wasn't the god of the christians - no-one that petty could've created anything on the scale of the world around us.

Hmmm. Hallmark, huh? How about: -

There once was a person called Whitty,
Who came across hardboiled and gritty,
He thought we were all *ankers
or just second rankers
and that this proved, ergo, he was witty.