So is it time to change leaders? surely not Nelson may have been the wrong man for the job but not yet surely?
It is no easy task for the opposition to find traction so early in a new Parliament time must pass before they do.
With by elections more than likely for run away MP s like Mark Vaile Peter Costello and maybe 6 more a steady hand is called for.
Even the most welded on Liberal in the country would surely not see Brenden as the right man for the job , he is however the right one for now.

What, to wear the flak, to absorb some king hits, to deflect attention from the sulking former Ministers, to demonstrate that there was no succession plan in the likelihood of defeat, and finally, when Prince Malcolm is ready, hand over with a smile?

Better to get it over and done with before Brendan dives any further and takes the Party down with him. Out with all the Old Guard - they are yesterday's people.

Turnbull for Leader - with a young Deputy like Greg Hunt to keep him on track.

I think Brendan's doing a wonderful job - so much so that I hope he's still leading whatever Opposition there is at the next election.

Quite honestly that is why I think it is too early to get rid of Brendan.
He wanted the job and actively undermined Turnbull to get it.
He never had a chance to play any roll in conservative politics other than the one he is playing now.
He is the stop gap leader, the throw away bloke, in time after a while he will be back on the back bench.
Had he not undermined Turnbull , he might have rolled him in a few months.
Remember Turnbulls crime? he wanted to publicly place blame on John Howard.
That flash of brilliance got Brendan his job.
Watch Julie Bishop, not my idea of a leader but she is going far in the short term.

I've gotta disagree there CJ. As glad as I am that the Howard Government has been toppled, nothing makes a government slide more quickly than an incompetent opposition that doesn't know how to hold their opponents to account.

I firmly believe that our crappy state oppositions are as much to blame for our crappy state governments as the governments themselves.

I sincerely hope we get a halfway competent opposition in at least two elections time (one election is too much to hope for, I think).

I have a tendency to vote against whoever holds the reins when it's a ridiculously safe seat.

Safe seats and safe governments breed incompetence. I say, keep them on their toes.

I have no doubt the Howard Government was the worst Government in Australian History. From Howard himself we had weak leadership , dis-honesty, the homo-erotic cult of Bradman worship and much bizaar things besides. From Howards government we had a cfomplete crew of incompetant ministers, not a talent amongst them, pandering to party donors,church gurus or their own meglamania. The liberal party was polluted with donations from suspect lobbyists and business people and to add to hammer the nail in the coffin the paty has been infiltraded by religionists froim Catholic , Pentecostal and Church of England Cults.

Howards Government followed Hitlers own policies of the 1930's almost in the same sequence from the burning of the Reichstag (Children over board) to AWA's (the Nazis unleashed the exact same contitions onto German workers justified by the exact same rhetoric).

Like Hitler's Nazis , Howard's Liberal collapsed into a apoclyptic rubble. History has repeated itself in Howard (ironically latest interest rises immitate post war inflation and rationing).

Nelson , Turnbull and the other Bormans and Himmlers of Howards Cabinet cannot escape their recent history and that is why I believe it is over for the Liberal Party and disband.

Howards Government was the worst because and not limited to-
Resource based Economic growth not managed or captured by Howard.
Climate change over the tipping point now was forecast before Howard came to office, Howard did nothing to aleviate the effects of Climate Change.
Wasted time debating over saying Sorry to the stolen generation
over a decade ago, costs to tax payers.
Iraq war, enough said.
Spending in marginal electorates at the expense of the rest of Australia.
The devolvement of services which in turn have createsd quality gaps, inflation and market failures.
The destruction of Australias resource base and technology base.
Massive hidden unemployment , the growth of the working poor , a matrix of anti-family policies and continual increase in real taxation.

Howards goons are the same members in the Liberal Party now. The Rudd Government will not bring them to account because Labour is also0 an out dated 20th Century party as much as the Liberals are.

Justice is in the hands of voters, let the liberals fall to oblivion.

Come West I rejoice in short bottoms defeat but Nazi? well if that is what you think.
Turn right then left has a handle on it NSW suffered because it still does not have an opposition.
In truth if I wanted a stronger conservative movement I would keep Brendan for 8 more months.
While quietly opening up every branch in NSW then Australia to new members not just the very right.
Maybe [in my view] the unlovable salesman for workchoices could move to the NSW house as leader.
Costello, Vaile, and a few more could best serve by leaving their seats in young strong hands, if they can win by elections.
It will be late in the term after next before conservatives are any chance.

I would have thought JWH is in no deeper shot now than he was in the mid '80's- time yet for resurrection?

I can imagine life under Keveryman after six years when all we recalcitrants have been counselled by the great man himself, and we will all be thinking correctly.

Hail Dr. Death and the ambulance chaser!

Belly I kid you not , Howard imitated Hitler. The Historical and policy syntax. Even Tony Abbots tantrum in Parliment today was ironically in the image of an old Brown Shirt Queen after the Furher had departed. If reviewed it is not suprising, the conservative movement since the 1930's is modelled on Hitlers simpleton and contradictory ideals and idea's. Nelson is probably hoping the Liberals will raise from the ashes as the Nazis did in the early thirties after crushing defeats , but of course Howard will have to become party leader again. Already within months the Liberal Party seem out dated , refugees from the past , out of place in Australia. Nelson should save face and disband the Liberal Party , or he could take it out on the National Party and destroy the Nationals by amalgamation, then he can write in his memoirs that the destruction of the Liberal Party is the fault of the Nationals.

In the meantime we tax payers must waste hard earned money while they complain about working Fridays.

TRTL: "I've gotta disagree there CJ. As glad as I am that the Howard Government has been toppled, nothing makes a government slide more quickly than an incompetent opposition that doesn't know how to hold their opponents to account."

Of course you're quite correct - I was just relishing the moment and being frivolous. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a halfway competent Opposition in the country. While I quite enthusiastically prefer Rudd to Howard, I'm not a Labor voter.

West - while I agree with your general sentiments, I think you're overdoing it a bit. Howard was an obnoxious rodent who did much lasting damage, but he wasn't anything like a Nazi. Except perhaps his construction of a gulag of concentration camp/detention centres around the country and region... nah.

They're being quietly decommissioned anyway, aren't they? And there weren't very many actual deaths.

West, you've reached new heights of lunacy with your attempts to identify Howard with Hitler.

Keating in style at least is the closest thing to a fascist in Oz politics in 30 years with his angry man persona and his intolerance of opposing views.

Not just over the top but all the way up to eleven buddy.

For the undemocratic, just witness Rudds little Friday fiasco- a parliament where the government is not answerable to the opposition, the parliament and the australian people for one day in every five. Now that had shades of fascism about it. Maybe Kevin counselled himself on this one?

Oz might yet find itself not ready to re-elect a Queensland PM.

People I think you are relating to the media focus of hitler , the enigma , fateful hobo and artist, almost supernatural demon. I am not suggesting Howard was about to embark on the invasion of New Guinea or an Indigenous Holocaust, or seduce his neice and then murder her. When looking at domestic policies and Hitler the Politician , Howard and Hitler are historical twins, even Hitlers homo-erotic worship of Wagner is mirrored by Howards homo-erotic worship of Bradman. Hitlers ministry were made up mainly of petty Rednecks, Howards ministry were made up mainly of petty Rednecks. Hitlers Government relied on propaganda to prop up failing policy , Howards Government relied on propaganda to prop up failing policy. Hitlers support was built by appeasing business lobby at the expense of the German People , Howard's support was built by appeasing the business lobby at the expense of the Australian people.Hitler was bolstered by a biased media , Howard was bolstered by a biased media.

Come West settle,yesterday in Parliament was fun.
Not a Nazi in sight but the opposition looked very much like Faulty towers without a script.
No one fought harder to remove the rodent than me but he was no Nazi.
I knew I would see Rudd's polls climb to these heights, said so here in posts months before the election.
But get great joy and comfort at Johny short bottoms talks in America daily he appears to forget his total defeat and rejection.