I never thought that Govt in Aust could reach such depths of depravity.The Iemma Govt show no remorse and they are beyond shame and redemption.

The building industry in NSW is experiencing the fifth quarter of negative growth and this lot are in terminal denial.Interest rates continue to climb to slow the booming economies of Qld and WA while NSW withers on the vine.

It is time for Kevin Rudd to step up to the plate and do something of substance for those who voted for him in NSW,instead of this feel good Bob Hawke style consensus Govt that aborgates responsibility.

Kevin wants Sydney to host the next Soccer World Cup!Well Kevin,put your money where your mouth is,because NSW cannot afford it!

Dear Arjay.... YOU ARE WRONG :)

It was not 'Labor' which destroyed NSW..it was the sinful heart of man.

<<The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.>>

Sounds like what we've been reading in the daily rags for quite a while now. These things are not restricted to "Labor" although at the moment they might be more colorfully displayed.

ALTERNATIVE?

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Aaaah..I love the smell of freedom :) like the air on an Autumn morning..crisp.. fresh.. pure.

THE SOLUTION. Is not to elect another party, but to elect men of character and worth who reflect in their actions a solid connection to the source of all good.

Free speech yes we are free to think as we wish even say what we want but David Boaz please!
I see you are slipping into that black hole!
Now Arjay the state is in trouble , it has been for a while but destroyed?
The chances come tell me I am wrong? of NSW holding the world cup are zero.
The state can thrive again , first get rid of half the Cabernet including the leader.
Face this fact, the rot within the conservative party Branch's is the only thing standing between them and government in NSW.
To forget both party's are second rate at this time is to forget the reality of NSW today.

it was not 'Labor' which destroyed NSW..it was the sinful heart of man.
Boaz_David,
I don't believe Labor people are bad, on the contrary. They do mean well but unfortunately, over three decades now have proven do be just simply incompetent. That is totally different to being bad. I have witnessed a lot of bad outcomes by people who really meant well but because of their indoctrination over-believed in themselves with the end result being where we are at right now. I really don't think that a country can be managed by theory & that's what I believe the ALP does. I know this sounds derogatory but I assure I don't mean it that way. Maybe I'm indoctrinated too by believing in reward for effort & compassion for those in need. I have no evidence that this philosophy has ever failed. There is however ample evidence that not the genuine Labor but the academic ALP philosophy of denying the poor & fostering the non-deserving doesn't work & severely impacts on society. The rich ?, well they'll always do well under any party.

Dear Individual....

I was not claiming "Labor" people are sinful.. I'm claiming ALL people ..including you and me.. are.

Mr Iemma might do well to reflect on these words of FDR the US president.

<<FDR knew the consequences of failing to seize the day. A visitor -- unidentified in the press -- came to him not long after the Inauguration and told him, "Mr. President, if your program succeeds, you'll be the greatest president in American history. If it fails, you will be the worst one." "If it fails," the new president replied, "I'll be the last one.">>

Maybe it is of more benefit to understand how the financial crisis developed. The high immigration policy of the federal government has led to crippling infrastructure costs being imposed on the population. Then you have the housing affordability crisis created by state and local governments severely limiting the development rights of landholders, so limiting supply.

Without high immigration and with greater landholder development rights, there would not be a problem. Unfortunately the prosperity of the population has been sacrificed so that a few may profit.

Belly said

Free speech yes we are free to think as we wish even say what we want but David Boaz please!
Pale replies
Hilarious,

You’ve got to love to hate this place. Soon we will have belly on his knees converting to Islam to get some good solid business sense.
Something lacking in Christian leadership.

David when will you learn that not everybody believes in your God.

There are many other beliefs and many other Gods.

The most practical of these in regards to good business sense would have to be Islam who does not separate religion from business.

Perhaps NSW being in the spot light so early in the beginning of our new Government will end up being the tool Kevin Rudd needs to see where some control and replace these tools with decent people.

Perhaps not. One thing is for sure be they Christian Muslim or or just no faith at all we need better common sense business leadership.

Belly is correct the right people in the right places are what are required.

They might be the most users unfriendly to your Christian faith but if they are Savvy as buggery then that’s what we need.
David doesn’t divert people from holding a debate over NSW ALP.
I can imagine this would be a serious subject for others in you don’t mind.
I mean we all know some people on this thread actually work within some parts of the industry as hands on err observer.
In other words why not just for once let’s listen to what Belly has to say. It’s his area after all.
Come on lets be fair. However David I do agree with you it’s the people. Too many on centerlink.... Now I am curious at the times you post.

Of course you don’t have top answer but are you on centerlink because you seem to post an awful lot throughout business ours .

“Awful” lot Where are you CJ that one was for you.:)
You can stand up now belly :)

The thing that also irks me is the lack of passion shown by Barry O'Farrel.At the last NSW election 12mnths ago they self destructed with the political assination of John Brogden ,but even he lacked passion for the job.

The body language eminating from the Liberals at the moment is that the present leadership status quo demonstrated by labor will be the order of the day.This is not good enough!How are they going to manage the State better?

At this rate,they will lose again in three yrs time and the people of NSW will be in utter despair!

It is a requirement of those who own this forum that certain sniping stop, it must be a two way effort.
NSW is not destroyed it is in trouble ,not for the first time.
The history of Australian politics is full of such as we see now.
Names of past state leaders ,from both sides come to mind one from my side followed one from the other.
Claims such as those in the first post in this thread seem more than true about both of them.
The idea Rudd can undo this crime against my state is untrue how could he? what legal mechanism exists for him to intervene?
While Morris awake at last from his slumber trys to act the part of something he has never been a leader we can not progress.
Right now, in this coming week we need six new Cabernet ministers a start to stopping the landslide next election.
But surely it is clear? we need an opposition too!

Excellent points, Belly. If the conditions for corruption remain the same there is no reason to believe that it wont continue with another government in power. That is why understanding the basis of the corruption is so important.

I would note that strict planning regulations have a strong correlation with corruption, but only where some councillors have the capacity to override the regulations. What you then get is a situation where prices are driven up by restricting supply. Councillors may then accept bribes to allow developments which are way outside the regulations, rightly arguing to the public that the need for such development was acute. High immigration increases demand and so further increases the opportunity for this corrupt practice. In essence, the corruption is driven by a restriction of the rights of landholders. Reduce the severity of the restrictions on landholders and you reduce the opportunity for corruption.

High immigration has imposed a huge infrastructure burden on the population, but it provides some very lucrative contracts. So again, this may be an instance of the public interest being put second.

not labor, precisely. not even liberals, exactly. the problem is bigger than that. it's rj.

the poitical culture in oz is better than, say, zimbabwe. but it doesn't work a lot better, and ozzies have no notion of democracy. they certainly don't connect their political handlessness with growing up in a society utterly controlled by a few hundred grifters in parliament.

you're the problem, rj. you and all the other mugs who think you can allow crooks to run your state and your nation, and not see corruption and incompetence in the running.

sorry, rj. your fairy godmother isn't going to take an interest in politics. you, and all those other mugs like belly, have got to get off your knees and establish democracy.

or you can just grin, and pretend you like being screwed.

I ventured across the border into Mexico/NSW yesterday, and it didn't seem to have been destroyed to me. Yes, there were tumbleweeds blowing down the street, and indolent hombres sitting around on street corners sipping Coronas and Tooheys under their sombreros. Cockroaches everywhere too - but what else is new? Looked much the same as last time I visited Tijuanafield ;)

Seriously, I don't think you can put the NSW malaise down to Labor - the dreaded NSW Libs had much influence in the erstwhile Rodent Federal government, and Fester has pointed out it was their immigration policies that funnelled too many immigrants in that direction. Mind you, plenty of them seem to have headed north to Godzone without creating the apparent inertia that exists south of the border.

"<<The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.>>"

That's it! Obviously with the Mardi Gras on this weekend the good Lord's brought everything to a head. Now if everybody would just toddle along to church instead, NSW would overcome its woes quick smart!

Why didn't anybody else think of that? Oh that's right, NSW is home to Fred Nile, and look how influential he is...

CJ

"Mind you, plenty of them seem to have headed north to Godzone without creating the apparent inertia that exists south of the border."

The debt from infrastructure spending in Queensland is already huge, and will become larger. NSW's mess is Queensland's future.

Pale.. me ? centrelink ? :) good grief.. if you knew how incredibly hard it is for someone in my position to do that, you would appreciate why I just about splurted my coffee (to quote CJ on my posts) all over my keyboard as well.

I'm self employed, and a trustee of a discrectionary trust, and you just would not believe how many libraries of paperwork..and more accountants than a footy team are needed just to fill in the first page of forms.

Then, each time you answer a question honestly, it triggers yet another form.(which is like a book) which in turn triggers more need for those teams of accountants...

When things were really tight, I did try to get on it.. but just gave up. I've been on 'low income' in reality, for years now, but things are improving :) I think this month (feb) I drew $576.00 :) good grief.. no wonder I'm running out. Thats for a month. But I took $4000 over december/Jan..

As I said in another post, my time posting on OLO worked out to have cost me around $28,000 in time over 3 yrs.

I wait for a break in work.. jump in.. abuse CJ :) or harass Perilous, then back to work.

As I shared with Foxy from Paul "I have learned to be content in all circumstances."

Glad you agree that it's 'people' who are the root of the problem for NSW.. my solution still applies though.
People not believing in 'my God' is not a drama.. They didn't believe in 'Pauls' God either but he kept on keeping on..and within 300 yrs..Rome was Christian.

C J Morgan your post is quite right , the state is hardly in ruins, however.
You can never know the fight that took place in just one seat to get them over the line last election.
And we should not forget it was no easy task , in fact only that the opposition was seen to be worse saved them.
Those who say my party right or wrong however are wrong.
I expect far better from my side.
The surprising new and unexpected leadership that followed Carr is clearly a failure.
It failed the state, the voters and the ALP.
We will now see window dressing from the invisible man, Morris will behead people who never should have been in the house , even with a mop and bucket in their hands.
Morris for those who must rebuild my party leave now please.
For NSWs sake we must look to rebuilding the opposition, even now it is doubtful their could win a raffle.

Could the ALP's dreadful performance in NSW be related to the abysmal standard of the Opposition captured by the religious fanatics?

Dave here
Any government or official that for eleven years that can condone the abuse of an innocent child all because that child loved his father & people hated his father in-laws included are as sick as the people that perportrate the abuse & then use that influence in another are as low as can be. They could walk erect under a snakes belly. Like I say child abuse must stop
May your lord shine on you all well
God Bless
Dave

Then it is up to you and every fair minded person to join the Labor Party to outvote the New South Wales Right Wing Catholics from controlling a great Political Party.

Onya Frank....I'm beginning to see a strong similarity between my muslim correspondent on youtube who reasons:

AbuBakur 'offered' his 6yr old daughter to Mohammad, by 'accepting' Mohammads proposal...

and you.. who blame the 'opposition' (captured by the religious right) for Labors abysmal performance...

Yep.. convoluted logic if every I saw any.. and quite helpful in assessing the "unusual" (to be kind) understanding of many things coming from "progressive" pens/Keyboards.

In fact..it rather fits even further [Migrants come here and WE must adjust to 'their' ways"] :) thats the general tone of many pro MC/PC posts.

This must be some psychological condition which deserves careful clinical observation and scrutiny. Left is 'right' UP is 'down'

Perhaps your anti religious right/nutter jibe was just one of those throwaway lines of frustration... ok.. maybe. I'll assume that.

Well.. my take is still as it was at the beginning. "People" i.e the human heart.. sin.. is what is destroying Labor in NSW.
Sin has this habit of continually re-inventing itself to circumvent the latest measures aimed at restraining it.

Ever wonder why most laws are "Don't" this or that ? I've yet to see any "Law" which is specifically couched in +ve terminology....

"If a person works at meals on wheels for one week straight, they will get a mention in hansard" Nope.. its allll against our natural inclinations. John the Baptist was right

""You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance!"

Amen 2 that! "fruit" in government befitting repentant people.

If it is Gods wrath that is hurting NSW why has he turned his back on the good people?
If it is the Catholic right then it is the only faction of the Labor party that could ever win an election.
Wrong remains wrong and some who wear my party colors have betrayed it.
In the next hours and days we will see if all good men come to the aid of the party or continue to serve themselves.

Well people are really hurting in NSW and feelings are running high particularly among the Italian community.An Italian business aquaintence who recently met Iemma and called him a piece of excreta in Italian.This lot are shaming their own community.
They have to go!We need street demonstrations now to spur Kevin Rudd into action.It we can sack councils on the recommendation of the ICAC,why not state Govts?Every layer of public administration is a shambles.People and investors are deserting NSW in droves.If you think it is bad now,just imagine another three years of this debaucherous,corrupt mal-administration!

SOMETHING MUST BE DONE TO STOP THE ROT NOW!THE TIME FOR TALKING IS OVER!

Seriously CJ your second para was rubbish. And just wait till those expat Mexicans from over the Murray make their mark.

FrankGol, you'd delight in rubbishing anybody who posted something as useless as your scribbling here. Car won't start? Give the tyre a kick Frank.

Arjay, how'd it go? 'heading in the right direction, still more to do'or some such piffle. Does the law regarding benefiting from the proceeds of crime apply here?

In the same way as I and everybody I've spoken to does not believe that the AWB scandal was not known about from the top down, nobody will believe that the immorality of the cosy relationship between the NSW ALP and developers {and pubs) is not broadly understood by all in the ALP.

Belly, your hand-wringing is comical. Bring back the bananabender Mike Kaiser- he knows how to FIX things.

palimpsest: "Seriously CJ your second para was rubbish."

Good point, old pal. I did let Labor off far too lightly, didn't I? The NSW ALP government is certainly looking increasingly bad, and I am indeed concerned about Qld's future infrastructural woes. I must've been feeling unusually optimistic when I wrote that comment.

However, the answer's quite simple - vote them out, but it seems to me that the comments about the NSW Opposition being in disarray have some merit, and at any rate I don't imagine they would be any more competent nor less corrupt.

Surely the Opposition has plenty of issues around which they can gather support and a coherent alternative government between now and the next NSW election?

FrankGol: "Could the ALP's dreadful performance in NSW be related to the abysmal standard of the Opposition captured by the religious fanatics?

BOAZ in response: "...I'm beginning to see a strong similarity between my muslim correspondent on youtube who reasons: AbuBakur 'offered' his 6yr old daughter to Mohammad, by 'accepting' Mohammads proposal...and you.. who blame the 'opposition' (captured by the religious right) for Labors abysmal performance..."

"...In fact..it rather fits even further [Migrants come here and WE must adjust to 'their' ways"] :) thats the general tone of many pro MC/PC posts. This must be some psychological condition which deserves careful clinical observation and scrutiny. Left is 'right' UP is 'down'

"If a person works at meals on wheels for one week straight, they will get a mention in hansard" Nope.. its allll against our natural inclinations. John the Baptist was right

""You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance!"

"Amen 2 that! "fruit" in government befitting repentant people."

FrankGol (just to be perfectly clear that I'm not still quoting BOAZ): Can someone please tell me how BOAZ got from my question about whether a weak Opposition enables the ALP Government in NSW to get away with incompetence...to BOAZ's muslim correspondent on youtube, Abu Bakur's daughter, migrants, meals on wheels, John the Baptist, a brood of vipers fleeing the coming wrath and fruit in repentance?

I think I lost David's post-modernist plot. Anyone else follow?

After eleven years of an incompetant conservative federal government it is a real wonder all those States and Territories survived after being starve of Educationa and Health Funding. The legacy of Howard lives on and it will now take eleven years to rebuild. Andrew Robb has virtually told Costello, Downer and Vaille to sling their hook as they are just parasitical garbage that are still earning wages from the taxpayer while searching for an outside job with a high income.

Thanks for the view from the Social Alliance but in my wildest moments I do not think I can put the blame on Howard.
Nore can I fall for the arjay line its too late, my mind saw henny penny darting in and our screaming the sky is falling!
Fact is I seldom see conservatives, come to think of it doing anything they are thin on the ground!
But when will the question their side? or talk of Askins NSW?
My ALP will act soon we could have done so a long time ago.
While we all wait do not fall over the rubble that once was NSW oh and watch out for chooks dashing in and out in fear.

So since your labor party could have acted before we can put it down to incompetence.

Or is this just having fun with the people and destroying their lives.

Yes belly we have rudd backing the sell off of our power stations and combet is just being a good little boy and doing as he is told.

superanuation and tax break, well would have been better for the workers as super, but hey that will not happen especially when the government will lose money, so in all we cannot do the right thing by the people.

Now health, how about the planned referendum so rudd can get his hands on that and then privatise it.

Health will be for the rich.

And since you are union belly why were those men down the mine at beaconsfield, especially since one said he was a union delegate and they knew there was safety problems.

Or wasnt the safety of the men important enough, and only became important after the accident.

This is a question nobody wants to answer.

And i will run again at the next federal election as an independent.

Stuart Ulrich

Rational debate is not always possible, the best we can do is try.
Rudd to the best of my knowledge has not taken any stance on the selling of NSW power.
It plumbs the depths to blame the miners for Beconsfeild.
I do not shy away from my view the NSW ALP must consider why we have not got rid of a few ministers.
Is it wrong however to highlight , yes highlight the dreadful state of this states opposition?
3 years a very long time to wait but if that opposition gets its act together it will win a landslide.
I ask this question of my leader in this state.
Mate has your failure to act, yes act not grand stand seen the question asked just how many are involved and who?
Did you Morris join the party for the party's sake or your own?

Yes it seems that the backing of the power stations is not something the labor party will tell the people.

Rudd had stated on stateline that he backs the sale of the power industry.

And still you have not answered why these workers were working in a dangerous enviroment, especially when the unions knew.

What are the unions doing for the workers, nothing except taking their money.

The state labor government is so corrupt why does the unions keep supporting them or is it since the state only gets 60% of federal funding and the state keeps the other 40%, is this for union payments.

Where is the peoples representation as all we have is pupetts on a string doing as they are told.

I also hope everyone gets private health insurance as this will be labors next sell off.

There will be those who can afford it and those who will just have to die.

Rational debate should take place on the state of NSW my posts hardly defend this government.
However waiting for them to fall over instead of building an opposition is not the best way to win elections.
Some will not understand but the state of the NSW opposition has played a part in this scandal.
A one party state mentality see,s a leader convinced he can ride out the storm, 3 years till an election just maybe he can!
The longer he waits to act the more questions will be asked about his knowledge of the scandal.
Posts seemingly setting out to insult my union and me do nothing to add to the debate ,however if evidence exists both are to blame for any wrong ? give it to us both!

Dear Frank.....ur smart enough to understand.

Conclusions follow evidence. Its that simple.

You seem to be in denial that evidence is valid, based on some political predisposition which cannot accomodate some things which are contrary to your sentimentally cherished values about the nobility of human nature.

Why should the abysmal performance of a government be the fault of the opposition ? By saying this, you confirm what Christ said "People are sinful" you underline the basic human tendency to sin, evil, selfishness and greed. So I should thank you for this, it supports the call I often make for all of us to repentance and faith.

But I don't think that's what you had in mind is it?

My post might have been a little obscure but let me reiterate.

Muslim reasoning "Abu Bakir OFFERRED his daughter to Mohammad" when in reality MOhammad ASKED for her.

Franks reasoning "Government is bad because the opposition is bad"

Rather than "The Government is bad because people are selfish, greedy and full of self interest"

It' not hard if you look closely mate.
cheers

Will a new King solve the problem?

The main question is whether the system in place is intrinsically corrupting. Given the situation across Australia I would suggest that this is the case. Yet most of the posts in this thread imply that the system is fine by suggesting a change of pollies will solve things.

I would remind the forum that the great democracy we enjoy in Australia evolved not from new kings, but from rules to limit their excesses when things went wrong. Perhaps it is time to evolve our democracy a little further?

Fester the system we have is the one we will live with for some time.
We should not fall for the idea just a leader is needed and despite our Christian posters view it is sin that put us in this place it will not be God that gets us out of it.
A weak near non existent opposition, any one with understanding of politics will know plays its part.
No police men to watch over the state.
Even now failure to truly act by the states leaders is clear evidence they think they do not need to.
That failure in my view questions the honesty of the leadership, in my mind calls for them to leave now.
NSW not for the first time is running second to others self interest it is not the first or last state to do so.
QLD white shoe scandals had no less crime behind it that this.
Even the brown paper bags.

"We should not fall for the idea just a leader is needed"

I agree, Belly.

"That failure in my view questions the honesty of the leadership, in my mind calls for them to leave now."

Does this mean that you have fallen for the idea, Belly?

"Fester the system we have is the one we will live with for some time."

The system we have is changing all the time Belly. Whether it's a major thing like the right to vote, conscription, or more minor things like an obligation to remove your dog's faeces from public places, the system is in constant flux. And what drives the change is a consensus that the status quo is unsatisfactory.

The system as it is, is allowing nation wide instances of corruption involving the collusion of developers and elected representatives. Now Belly, would you agree that the system is unsatisfactory?

Fester I except your point no way I want to hide from it Morris needs to go and now.
He by not removing a bad smell in my party takes ownership of it, maybe he knew about it.
Even maybe is part of it.
I do not agree the system change all that much, in my lifetime leaders from both sides have been a bit black lets say.
Other states are better but none is clean we want change but will we get it?
Honesty is required but do you see a rising tide of honest Polly's rushing forward?
If the unlovable bloke can tell me why he wants to sell power and not make me laughter he will surprise me.
Development rights are hot issues not NSW alone but once QLD too.
I would ask my party my proud party are we better of imitating an ostrich or demanding change?
We have zero power even in the branches to bring about his removal but we must act for our troubled party not this lost government.

No CJ, the opposition still has nothing. I can't recall a NSW Lib. of any distinction outside of Greiner in my time. Says a lot that our last election featured Iemma being propitiative - I know we're hopeless, I'm so sorry, please don't hit me too hard, i'll try and do better next time- and still creaming the other guy.

Couldn't vote for either in the end.

Hopefully they will get rolled by internal fighting over the electricity privatisation.

PS,glad to have Mike Kaiser back?