As Kevin Rudd presented this years Australian of the year award it was good to see the outback getting some over due attention.

Many people blame farmers for the hike in meat prices and veggies.

The truth is farmers are still only getting around $2.70 per kilo for beef that is sold to you by Woolworths and Coles etc for $16.00 per kilo while at the same time paying more than double in feed bills.

There is an enquiry into this been opened by Kevin Rudd and Chris Bowen that will last about six months?

I don’t reckon those old real deal farmers will take much notice of it. They have seen them come and go.

I was wondering if anybody had thoughts on how we could become closer to our Aussie farmers by supporting them in a more direct manner.

Perhaps if some schools liked to adopt a farm and it could be promoted by someone like Australia all over.

Now farmers are a pretty shy lot so it would have to be ideas that were not too over the top.

However most farmers would I am sure be happy to have the kids at the farm for a camp out for a few days.

Those who oppose meat eating could support the crop farmers who do it really tough.

Perhaps schools to raise funds to build a chain of fast food veggie delights.

Whatever ideas you have we would love to hear how we can support our farmers both crop veggies and meat.

Or perhaps you just would like to share your favorite bushy poem with us.

if we're going to socialize agricuture, it seems fair to socialize other industries as well. if you don't want to do that, oz agriculture needs an umbrella organization with power.

farming in oz is a chancy business, and too many people are trying to do it. when some cockie on the 6 oclock news says he hasn't broken even for ten years, my response is not "what a shame", it's "move to the city".

i suspect the industry needs a national organization that provides finance, training and book keeping- and fires farmers that can't make a living for ten years.

it could also support the scientific background to suit oz farmers to oz conditions. raising cotton is crazy, and maybe 'roo herding should replace cattle.

Strewth! You're all heart DEMOS!

I agree that we have to do something pronto about the nonsense that is cotton/rice farming, an absurdity in the driest part of this continent. I agree that we have to stop nurturing inefficiencies.

Like any other profession there ARE inefficient farmers, many of them implementing farming practices that have further reduced the productivity of their land. ( I know of one farmer, now deceased, who for decades not only kept all his trees, but planted more. He was laughed by neighbouring farmers. No prizes for guessing who has the more fertile productive land now).

What I cannot agree with is the glib assertion that our farmers should move to the city if they complain about their lot! Excuse me?
Fair go DEMOS; if that occurs we will end up in a dramatically worse situation!

We ALL have to change our attitude. South Australia is getting a metaphorical dribble of water from the Queensland floods because rice/cotton farmers upstream are legally entitled to use the vast majority of that available water. So ordained by the NSW/Vic Governments.

What a farce! As a life form we have really got it coming, because we and State/Fed Governments do bugger all but talk about it!

hello demos and ginx,
you may have noticed that there is hardly any cotton or rice being grown this year as a result of drought. Isn't that the way we need some of our crops to be in our nation of drought and flooding rains. We just don't grow much during drought, leaving supplies for permanent plantings and for towns.

Dear PALE&IF,

Farmers deserve our full support - they've been doing it tough for some time now. And where would we be without them?
I always make sure that I buy Australian produce. It may not be much help - but its the least I can do.

However I'd love to cut out the middle man (Supermarkets) and see the profits go directly to the farmers. So my humble suggestion is what about setting up (with government support)"Farmer's Markets" in all large rural city centres around Australia? Where everything is in one place.

The farmers could bring their goods and sell them directly to the public - instead of via the Supermarkets.

Just a thought.

You asked for some Bush Ballads? One of my favourites is -"Saltbush Bill" by A.B 'Banjo' Paterson and of course, "The Man from Snowy River." But because they're too long for this post - I'm going to give you some short Early Australian Nursery Rhymes - that just may
entertain ... here goes:

"Sammy the swaggie has a big brown swag,
A little black billy and a white tucker bag,
A blue cattle-dog and a very red nose,
And they all go with him wherever he goes."
D.H. Souter.

"Hush-a-bye baby, on the tree top,
Grasshoppers ate up the whole of our crop.
When the drought breaks the rabbits will come.
Hush-a-bye baby, the outlook is glum."
E.R.

"Sandy is a shearer
Who has shorn so many sheep
He does not need to keep awake -
He shears them in his sleep.

That isn't Sandy snoring,
It's only Sandy shoring.
He is so smart at shearing sheep
That he can shear them in his sleep."
D.H. Souter.

"Little Miss Muffet
Arose from her tuffet
To box with the old kangaroo.

There came a big wombat
To join in the combat,
And little Miss Muffet withdrew."
E.R.

"Little Billjim, Aussie boy,
Ate bananas with great joy.

Mother frowning, said to him:
'Leave some room for dinner, Jim.'

Reaching for another bunch,
Billjim said, 'This is my lunch.'
D.H. Souter.

G'day Rojos.

Actually I hadn't noticed. What I HAVE noticed is cotton farmers upstream pouring water onto their rice crop.

I don't accept that as good political OR farming practice

Hello everybody
Foxy thanks
I have stayed out of this thread because we really are looking for ideas on the best way forward to support farmers.
I think different states allowing different produce and know little about cotton so thought it best to say nothing watch and learn
Thanks all

Ginx, come again?

"cotton farmers upstream pouring water onto their rice crop"

How informed are you? The floodwater arrived recently,but the planting window for cotton closed back in November. The Australian cotton crop is around 15% of normal this year, irrigators on the Darling at Bourke haven't grown a normal cotton crop for 5+ years, and nothing in the last few. Don't they deserve a share of the spoils like everyone else? You might actually find with wheat prices at record highs the extracted water will be used for that- is that as politically incorrect to you?

Even setting that all aside the majority of water in the Warrego river never makes it to the Darling, let alone past the Menindee lakes and onto the Murray, downstream of rice growers. Incidently rice production will be down to about 2% of normal this year.

Cotton farms are not permitted to grow rice under conditons of their water licence. Not that they would, because there is more profit in cotton.

I'll ask you a question, what should the water be doing?

I think the government should assess the viability of many farmers to continue their failed agri- businesses.

Should we prop them up? These long failing bush "traditions"?

And we don't have the billions that the US throw at their dirt farmers.

Surly the climate change science is telling us something about future prospects?

I say diversify, get profitable, and get eco or get off and let nature try to reinvigorate the billions of hectares of chemically poisoned land and the dry creeks and rivers that are now sucked dry by irrigation.

Rainier, to the best of my knowledge farmers have to prove their viability before they receive any help, certainly in relation to interest payment help.
With all the publicity one would expect every farmer either applies or is eligible for help. Not true. Last I heard only 17% of farmers had received any payment. If the ABARE stats are anything to go by the average farming operation is very healthy indeed, with an enviable build up in equity, and low debt levels. Don't get me wrong, it's very hard to keep going when income is negative for several years in a row, it's not something you can't fully prepare for- the worst drought in history. I do think though that only a handful of farmers seeking the exit grant speaks volumes about the general viability of the farming sector.

If spilling dams like those at Emerald and the Burdekin are an indication of future climate change, then irrigation is part of that future. It has to be in our "drought or flooding rains" climate.

Interesting that most of our rivers haven't run dry because of irrigation, more specifically our major storages like the Hume and Dartmouth Dams. I do think you hit the nail on the head about dry creeks and rivers, when there's no runoff there's no irrigation water pumped out of them. Their hasn't been much sucking going on in the last few years.

I'm afraid the world doesn't have billions of hectares of farming country that can be returned to nature, food security being the main concern. Our cropping area would be unlikely to exceed 50 million hectares, in a country of approx 800 million hectares total.

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

"How informed are you"?? Not informed at all YOU think!

You respond quite reasonably to another poster. I like that. You refer "to the best of my knowledge". Nicely put. It makes clear that your opinion is based on what you are able to glean. Likewise for me.

"What should the water be doing"?

This now very clearly acknowledged precious resource should go where it is needed. NOT where it is wanted.
We are on a flashing red light. We can no longer sustain the farming of ANY crop that is GROSSLY reliant on water ( and that IS predominantly rice and cotton), in areas of this country that are drought prone. We have sustained this practice for far longer than we can afford to do so.

ANY life form changes and adapts to its environment. Why should the environment adapt to what we want from it? It won't, so we get around that by 'cutting the suit to fit the cloth'. it is an overindulgence that has been unviable for quite sometime.

One more thing. Bluntly, I have had a gutful of South Australia being at the arse end of our main water resource. The lifeblood artery that is the Murray river. Whilst we continue to think and act according to the vested interests of individual States and their rural and industrial practices, and NOT as a whole society; we are stuffed! We are hamstrung by this attitude. It is causing massive problems and we continue to fiddle while Rome burns.

I will be damned if I will get into a slanging match with you about these issues. You will take little notice of what I've said, and frankly vice versa. So don't attempt to patronize me again.

We have different views. That is that.

Few Farmers that really need assistance ask. Those are the facts and they dont just give out funds willy nilly. There are forms and forms many of which some old farmers cant make head or tail of it.
People think the WA mines etc are the mosd important industry in this country.
Not So- Our Australian Farmers are without a doubt. Without them we simply do not eat. Now ewe can get behind them a bit more and stand up for a fair go for a fair price for our farmers or depend on China and other countries in the future to feed our nation.
A very unwise move thats for sure. With a few sactions hat IMOP will come when Oz are declaired war criminals along with US and UK we will be in deep water.

If you saw the way they grow crops in china and what they use to as fertiliser you might think again about wanting to keep our farmers.

Just some food for thought.

PALE&IF: "Now ewe can get behind them a bit more..."

That is either very clever or a particularly unfortunate Frewedian slip. Either way, I nearly spilled my stubby when I read it :)

Ginx, I had no intention of creating a slanging match, but I'm not going to sit back and allow you to (perhaps not deliberately) present a false picture of cotton or rice farming in Australia.

from your first post:"the nonsense that is cotton/rice farming, an absurdity in the driest part of this continent"

My first reply to you and demos was cordial, and well intentioned. I didn't even go as far as to say there are plenty of other areas drier than cotton growing regions. When I pointed out a few things your rather terse response was:

"G'day Rojos.

Actually I hadn't noticed. What I HAVE noticed is cotton farmers upstream pouring water onto their rice crop.

I don't accept that as good political OR farming practice"

Mispelling my name is no problem, probably a slip, but you highlighted what you HAVE noticed. I posed the question "how informed are you" to give you the opportunity to say you got that statement wrong, we could have a laugh together, and exchange some real info. Unfortunately it appears you do believe cotton farmers water their rice, which I can assure you is completely untrue. The crux of the argument is that YOU have noticed this, when it is next to impossible, yet you weren't aware of the smallest cotton and rice crops for decades, even though it's been in the media on several occasions. Vs zero for cotton growers watering rice.

cont'd

Unfortunately for South Australia they are always going to be at the tail end of the Murray, barring upheaval of the land. Last year was their farmers first to not get 100% allocation, in the some of THE driest parts of Australia, whereas most cotton growing regions have had around 10% allocation for the last 6 years. Yet you want more for SA. Where is the equity in that?

You may seek to have the moral high ground "Don't you just hate it when that happens?", but it looks a lot better when you really are informed. And yes I do care if I've incorrectly wronged anyone. I just go tone for tone, sorry if I misread yours.

CJ, I'm wondering ewe is behind ewe? Is it PALE

CJ Thank Ewe
You know us Morgan

Anything to entertain ewe;)
enjoy the beer.
Somehow I saw you as a whiskey man with the crytal glass huh just shows. I must have a bundy with you sometime- are ewe right there Rainer

My word you have got it bad haven't you?

What an exercise in nit-picking! I added an 's' to your tag?;..well strip me naked and beat me with pappadums!! Sheesh; grow up! Me and tags?,you ain't seen nothin'! (I have an Argentinian friend; HIS name is:- Rojos!...As I said, grow up).

"I posed the question "how informed are you" to give you the opportunity to say you got that statement wrong,..." (Quote:ROJO)

You cheeky sod! What arrogance! And so damn typical of those who DO take the moral high ground with NO good reason, whilst pointing out the failures of others.

We are in desperate trouble down here buddy; take a look at the met. charts at the moment. The rain that is falling in several places (not all I know), extends to a border which 'fences off' most of SA. Kind of weird. It is almost as if there IS an invisible barrier.

Were you aware that National Geographic Journalists are in Australia at the moment to document a story on how NOT to manage an arterial water source, using the Murray river as an example?

As to any further discussion; unless you criticize me again, I would rather not discuss ANYTHING with you. If terse bothers you (as a response to-'you may have noticed'. So sweetly put), you might do well to give OLO a miss. There is a nice tiddlywinks site that I can recommend

wow ginx, the substance to furthering your argument is to criticise me for drawing attention to your spelling even though I plainly said it was probably a mistake. My point was in guaging your attitude, not your abilities. Sorry you are so sensitive to personal error.
I see you post no evidence for the real errors in your posts, so be it, lets paint me as arrogant instead of correct. I'd hate for you to have to admit to mistakes in public.

Do you reread your own posts, don't forget to use capitals when you quote yourself. You raised your voice to me, and I take that as a terse response, and then you have the hide to quote back in lower case. And you think I have cheek.

I'll leave it for others to judge the merits of our posts, and whether I've wronged you without provocation

I've read your post history Roj; you have a track record of being highly defensive in all matters farming. That's fine, but you are getting yourself really locked up in side issues now; why?:

".........don't forget to use capitals when you quote yourself. You raised your voice to me, and I take that as a terse response, and then you have the hide to quote back in lower case...."(Quote: Roj)

I...er.., raised my voice to you..? I quoted back in lower case....

Okkkkkkkkk.........

I am truly sorry if you are suffering some kind of personal stress.

Rojo

I think the key word here is-possible as you said "The Substance"
While our opinions have been worlds apart on some issues regarding farming in general I cant say you have ever gone out of you way to be purposely rude like some of our libber posters.

I can only repeat we must support our farmers as a number one in this country.
Sure there are some changes of crops and improvements to farming all round especially as the RSPCA point out to our laws to stop darn right cruelty.
Despite that we are going to be in the most serious trouble if we rely on China to feed us or any other country for that matter.

Its a case of sitting at the table many times to get it right because we can not afford to get it wrong.

Mean time I can tell you many farmers have done it tough along with their familes over the past five to six years.

I note times the different posts go up and i wonder to myself if there will be any welfare in this country for anybody if we do not support the back bone of this nation which is our farmers.

unlike the Animal Libbers you see on this forum we think farmers have been decieved and sold out in the past by the traitors who flooded this country with cheap imports.

One can not blame farmers now in order to survive for sending their products off direct in order to get a fair go.

So unless something is done and done urgently in a few years the Australian city folk will wonder what hit them as prices rise to overeas demands and they have to compete with a every hungry world to by procude of any kind.

Its Food for thought and well past time we gave not only our farm animals a fair go with some laws to protect them from utter unforgivable cruelty but farmers a better deal all round

ginx, if I'm defensive toward agriculture it is for good reason, I feel it is being wronged.

I've been posting regarding the "absurdity" of cotton and rice but you don't wish to discuss that, only that somehow I was less pleasant to you than Rainier. Shock/horror for you that I suggest you were uninformed, when you demonstrate it so plainly. But you don't admit that you made a mistake or an error in judgement, so it's all my fault you look silly, not anything to do with your own actions.

lets look at the capitals issue- I took the use of such in your earlier post to be terse, and my reply(that has offended you so deeply) was in the equivalent tone. You then present the quote in lower case to suggest you weren't at all inflamatory. Thats my issue, one of accuracy and fairness, just like any unfair claim against agriculture that I might choose to comment upon. Glad to see you are so worked up about me you've had to check past posts. And you think I've got problems.

If you choose to continually obfuscate the argument to a personal level then thats up to you, because we all have to remember it's all about you, not the junk you write. Sadly arguing with you serves no further purpose because you can't get past yourself. The record is clear to all but you.

Thanks pale, I do try and address the issues not the messenger, sometimes the messenger becomes the issue.

No Roj, the problem is that I have disagreed with you. That has really obsessed you. I HAVE to see it your way.

This thread is about recognizing the value of our farmers. I was not the only one to bring up the subject of sustainable farming. I have not changed my view at all. Sustainable farming practice is critical; absolutely critical.

This will further set you off, because I will not see it your way. I mentioned that in my first response to you. You did not accept it then, and you don't accept it now. You are STILL preoccupied with trying to get me to see that I made a mistake!

I have NO ulterior motive for texting in lower case!! I am unsure believe it or not, of what exactly you mean by this.

It seems to me that what motivates a statement is as important as the statement itself. It's what I do. I STILL don't understand why you are obsessed with 'raised voice/lower case' so I went looking for what was driving this. The only thing I saw, is the many months that you have spent on these issues when they are raised. And that IS ok.

PLEASE get back to the issue of this thread. I am not going to simply roll over to please you, so put an end to it.

The value of our farming community cannot be underestimated. The feed us for God's sake! BUT, I WILL exercise the right to have a view on SOME aspects of farming on this thread whether you like that or not. And I WILL defend myself when YOU make this personal.

I'm not going to come around to your way of thinking Rojo;-leave it alone and get back to the discussion.

`ginx, the problem as I see it is you didn't disagree with anything I said relating to cotton and rice, only how I addressed you. I have no problem with you disagreeing with my info, comments or attitude if it is done factually or logically. I meant it when I said "I do care if I've incorrectly wronged anyone".
You made some statements that I posed some answers too and questioned you about but I felt you focused only on how I addressed you. It is indeed a failing that I put too much emphasis on little things like capitals and how I perceive tone etc, it's no excuse for being short with you.

After some thought I accept you didn't mean to post the quote in lower case deliberately(back to me being too pedantic). I took it that you were saying I couldn't possibly take as terse : "What I HAVE noticed..." Thats where the voice raising occured, and I felt the "have" in the requote made it deliberately appear unreasonable for me to have jumped to that conclusion. I realise now it was an incorrect conclusion. We just perceive things differently. I took your concern about stress as patronising when it was genuine concern, and you ended up with an undeserved earful.

This thread is about recognising farmers- but you chose to come down on cotton and rice farmers. I merely tried to present some info as to why that isn't fair, unfortunately it appeared to be an attack on you personally, not on your comments. I had no intention of doing that.

In my summation, it has been judgement error on my part that got us to this point, and I'm sorry it did.

cont'd

Sustainable farming is critical, the crux of the situation is why people think cotton or rice isn't sustainable, or somehow less worthy than say tree plantations for woodchips or carbon credits. Or why when irrigators in SA have 32% allocation cotton farmers shouldn't have any. All farming systems require water, and the issue really is about whether too much water is extracted, which has nothing to do with the crop grown. Allocations were made to licence holders who will use the same amount of water regardless of crop. Wheat takes less water per hectare, so they will grow more hectares to utilise the water.
The reality is SA despite being at system end, hasn't run out of water during the worst drought in recorded history and while the farmers don't have full allocation it is much better than their Northern cousins (0% last year and 12% this year in my valley). That SA hasn't run out of water is largely because of large scale irrigation and consequent infrastructure like Hume dam. And the reality that annual crops like rice and cotton just aren't planted when no water is available, leaving the water for people and permanent plantings(where if the orchard dies it takes years to get back to production).

I saw you online, and wandered off for half an hour so you could make your post.

I have talked to two farmers down here, one has crops, the other livestock. Both of these farmers are less than happy. I put your posts into emails and sent them on to them for comment.
Your posts are on the internet after all;...

I appreciate the first half of your post, but the second half I do not, and it is that half that I shall forward on. I'm doing it that way because one of these men in particular, who has been farming for just over 50 years, is champing at the bit to have a go at you. (Murray is just a young un', he has only been farming for 40 years.)

Now Les is less than subtle in his approach, which is why I have not given him this source. If you think I've been impolite..........!

I have never argued against the farming of rice or cotton, I argue that this type of crop is no longer viable in drought prone areas; it never was.

I shall pass on to Les and Mazz that you see SA. as doing well with water. They'll be so thrilled to hear it!!