Frankly, this is ridiculous, as i have got my L's after the July 2007 deadline, now i have to go through guidelines saying i cannot drive any 8 cylinder vehicle? i find this seriously stupid. My dads V6 is more powerful than the V8 i was planning on buying, also the six cylinder cars that are fuel injected have more power than the carburetted V8's.

E.G. 1991 VN Commodore V6 - 125kw (3.8L V6)
1980 WB One Tonner - 115kw (4.2L V8)

Can you see where im coming from?

It should be based on power and acceleration, not capacity. Jeez ive got mates currently on their p's who drive big powered V8's, and they legally got away with it because their cars are just heavy enough to pass. A WB One Tonner weights a fair amount and has less power than a VN commodore. I beleive this is ludacris, and i am certainly writing to the state government about this injustice!

Comments?

Sounds sensible, but it is more of a technical question. You would have to come up with a simple system that has fewer holes in it than the current one.

Have a power limit? Say, first 2 years of P plates go for 140kw max and 320nm of torque max. Then second two years go for 180kw tops? i rekon its sensible enough. And have weight/power ratios too

I drive a mundane, 4 door, family sedan, which has a 4 cylinder, dohc, 16 valve, EFI engine.
According to the manual the car can reach 153 kph in 3rd gear. Power really kicks in at 30 kph in 2nd with the foot down, that's when the EFI really gives it a squirt.

Eminently safe for a 'P' plater, no chance of getting into trouble in that sort of car. Probably couldn't reach the 180 at the top end of the speedo. Maybe 165, so it's a safe car for anyone; how could you get into trouble?

Anyone get the idea that the V8 ban is just a bit of 'feel good' ' look we've done something' legislation/regulation? (plus another two question marks for emphasis, which I wasn't allowed to put in) Nyaah!

Would seem more sensible to have electronically-limited acceleration and top speed. In fact, I don't see why this should not be mandatory on ALL vehicles, regardless of driver age. The fact that it might make cars more expensive is no bad thing either. Cars are far too cheap, considering their long-term costs. Yes, there will be inevitably those that disable the limiters, but the vast majority of drivers would benefit from being forced to stay at a reasonable speed.
Such a device would certainly have saved me quite a bit in speeding tickets over the years.

What is ridiculous is that P-platers are able to drive any car with a power ratio of a V8 or a VN Commodore V6 or anything or the sort (or any car at all for that matter), before they have done a very thorough defensive driving course and have gained an appreciation of the dangers on the road, both to themselves and perpetrated by them due to a lack of appreciation of the many risk factors and safety margins.

Why do you want a powerful car straight-up straight after getting your licence Potty? Is it just peer-pressure? Do you really think that you would be able to entertain this sort of peer pressure without being pressured into behaving in an irresponsible way at least to some extent on our public roads, by way of demonstrating the power of your vehicle?

Comeon, you would be a rare individual indeed if you craved this sort of power and peer-adoration without misusing it in a way not befitting safe behaviour behind the wheel of a car in public.

In your example above, the big difference between the V8 and VN Commodore would be the fact the V8 would be your car whereas the Commodore would be your father’s and therefore not a factor when it comes to showing off to your mates. I would say that the bloody peer-pressure factor is actually a whole lot more important than the nature of the vehicle.

Wizofaus,
Your suggestion would not cause an increase in price at all.
It would simply be programmed into the existing engine management system.

However to get more fundamental, Potty is a dinosaur driver.
I presume he is under 20 years of age, maybe even 17.

Potty,
You are unlikely to be able to afford a V8 or anything like it
in a couple of years or so time.
Do your budgeting on either $4 a litre or petrol rationing.
Do not bank on the ration being proportional to engine size either.
It will be the same amount for every private owner.

We might be lucky to hold petrol at $4 a litre but then maybe not as
something like $5 to $10 a litre is not wholly out of the question.

22 years of broken sleep as early morning recalls to work, or call up for road rescue.
So many deaths on the Pacific highway, I understand why we limit young drivers, to save lives theirs and many Innocent victims.
Ask police who can No longer serve road rescue crews road workers Ambos and firemen yes even NRMA people who saw far too much death and we may all know why .

We will never have petrol rationing. This isn't a communist country.

this regulation is completely wrongheaded. there's way too many people, and way too many cars. anything that prevents then from coming together at high speed is a mistake.

Freediver; errr, what has communism got to do with the price of fish ?

Anyone who thinks petrol rationing is not on the agenda in the next
five to ten years is living in la la land.
It might depend on how fast we can convert our cars to gas and provided
the Chinese allow us to break our natural gas contracts with them.

Australia is 45% depleted and we will either not be able to afford to
buy the 50% of our usage or we will not be allowed to buy it.

The V8, four wheel drives and other high consumption cars will have zero
2nd hand value and may not even be in the dealers showrooms in 5 to 10
years time.

The effects start in the poorest countries and work up the richness
scale which is why there is widespread power blackouts in South Asia
and Africa. (They mostly burn oil in their power stations).

Peer PRessure and Fuel Costs are NOT worries of me, this is a car use issue. I need a V8 to comfortably tow a trailer and a boat on the weekends, and also i am not inclined to hoon with it, it is simply a way to get around, no hooning of being silly.

I believe that if i can get a 253 thats not even that powerful and keep it stock that it will serve my needs well, and because of the age of the vehicle i intend to buy it will be easier for me to do repairs and to ork on it fixing anyhting and keeping it running well, as im going to be a mechanic anyway. People always talk about how bad drivers are these days, especially young ones and ones with cars that are powerful, funny thing is those people who say this had cars with the same poer output as the car i want when they were my age, and had V8's and they are now becoming so 'concerned' about young drivers, who by the way are over represented in fatal/non fatal car accidents.

Another reason for the ute is so my father can use it too and it would be a good asset to have, and fuel costs arent of a concern to me, im not gunna be driving alot, as i also have a bike and use public transport. I initially was merely thinking that it was stupid these new laws, as a 18 year old who just got their p's can drive a 200kw Toyota Aurion or 190kw Ford Falcon, both '6' cylinder cars.

Ah yes, AND im currently learning to drive in my dads VN and i have driven a 253 v8, as im some how aloud to on my l's, and the 253 had nothing on the V6, which killed it in acceleration (dad had it at calder with a stock 253 that his mate owns and they dragged them)

The wb one tonner would be ideal for me in transport, financial terms ($2k w/RWC/Rego) And it'll do me perfectly for work.

Potty,

Yep. A 1975 Passat TS [c.1490cc] will out accelerate a light V8 of the same vintage over a short distanceand has a cruising speed 175 klm per hour. Maybe, a low powered and low weight cars [less mass in a prang] should be purposely designed for restricted licenses.

Just to try and get the message across I'll give another example of a low powered car that anyone would be allowed to drive.

1.5 litre engine,push rod OHV, 4 cylinder, normally asphirated, 4 speed box.
Performance: 27 mph in 1st; 52 mph in 2nd; 72 in 3rd and 90+ in 4th.

This car is still on the road and performing as well, if not better, as when new.

How would a speed limiter work on it? Limit the power? It only produces 54 bhp

The idea of excluding V8s was just a feel good exercise without the intention of doing anything concrete.

Finally, some people who see where i am coming from. The Corolla i was driving (mums old one, recently got rid of due to being rear ended) produced 97kw and only weighed around 900kgs, it was a wagon and it took off like a rocketship and it would just spin the rears, with full tread, if u went too deep on the throttle. So im not aloud to drive a 1400kg, 115-116kw 253 V8 because its of 8 or more cylinders? Crap.

Potty, a 1400kg car at 80km/h will do a lot more damage to whatever it hits than a 900kg one. Given you're in the category of drivers most likely to drive into other things, such a restriction seems perfectly reasonable.

Yet i can still drive a 1700kg (or close enough) 200kw 6 cylinder aurion? sure thing.

Potty, agreed, there is no logical in that.

Were it up to me, weight/power restrictions would be based on proven ability to handle the vehicle in an official test.

Age is a slightly convenient proxy, but there's plenty of older drivers with limited driving ability who almost certainly should be kept away from excessively heavy or powerful vehicles. And I'm one of the few people who will honestly admit that their driving skills are probably below average (as are those of 50% of the population), so it would apply to me too.

I think that one reason for the ban on inexperienced drivers driving V8s is probably more psychological than material.

That is, certainly in these days of exponentially increasing petrol costs, the allure of driving a V8 would mostly be restricted to revheads to whom the appeal of raw grunt outweighs the prohibitive expense involved in driving a bloody great petrol-guzzler. That's why they're cheap to buy secondhand - few experienced drivers would want to own one these days.

Admittedly, Potty has given reasonably good reasons for his desire to own one of these mechanical dinosaurs, but I think anything that separates young revheads from fast cars on our roads has to be a good thing, even if a few apparently more sensible drivers are temporarily inconvenienced. Mind you, young Potty seems a bit too informed about relative horsepower and acceleration for my liking - who knows about that kind of stuff except revheads?

Will I disappoint anyone with my idea?

We have the problem of huge mismatch of car power with brain power of a driver. Let my proposition to be legislated explain why.

The common license to be divided into 3 categories a,b,c depend on capability of a car. Car capability meaning of speed and acceleration, perhaps also mass. The lowest c be for least capable and suited to students, teenagers, pensioners and less mentally capable. Cars allowable be the older, and newer but less powerful. License requirement for c class be much more strict than at present, and include ability to drive in all road situations, to share road with all road users, and be just difficult to pass to first timers. Lots more training required and be more costly.
Level b for more powerful cars be allowed only after blameless driving record for 3 years on lower level and much more comprehensive training and be able to drive more powerful cars, and be much more expensive (say $2000 or more). The highest level a of license for most powerful cars, after blameless driving record on lower level for 3 years and much more training and cost to get it.

This system would solve so many problems and is perhaps the most fair. The most fair not from perspective of current mismanagement, but from objective point of view, where safety gets priority.
With my proposition, no teenager would steal powerful car for joy riding. Everybody would instantly spot – wrong driver in wrong car. The hoons would be a thing of a past because most hoons do not use mini morris but use powerful commodore. And if they have enough brain to obtain higher license it would be too precious to loose it by stupid hooning.
Everybody could have license but if you want to drive more powerful and potentially more dangerous car, you have to prove you are capable.

Not only less car related crime but psychologically, the lower category drivers would observe that drivers with higher category, drive safer and more courtliness.

CJ... I dunno if he knows too much about the stats, given that he's mentioned he's planning to become a mechanic. Being an aficionado of motor vehicles isn't an automatic assumption they'll behave like a hoon.

That being said, I agree with your overall point that the demographic is more prone to car accidents.
I agree... though I grapple with it somewhat, given that when it comes to other forms of discrimination, I don't think it's justified to categorise people by their age, sex or ethnicity and the dictate rules to them on that basis.

I guess it comes back to the 'within reason' argument. We stop children from driving because they're not ready for it, and this seems reasonable, as it's a progressive thing that applies to everybody at a certain stage, and it makes sense to progressively introduce them to driving.

But in this instance, it would seem that there isn't any logic in the rule... but, my solution probably wouldn't be well liked by you potty, as I'd probably advocate the restrictions be brought to a more uniform standard that is still quite prescriptive.

Yeah, i understand where your coming from, all of you, and i like the idea about having drivers prove their capabilities in a particular car. I'd be more than happy to go through ANY driver training course and any test possible to prove my abilities and intentions with the sort of power im chasing. im an old school kinda kid when it comes to cars, and im happy to learn how to handle them better and treat them with complete respect. I know the consequences of powerful cars, one of my cousins died ina car accident and that changed my whole attitude to cars. So yeah im more than happy to go through any procedure necessary

Good on you Potty. If only all young drivers were of the same mindset.

Yes, quite so Ludwig. It seems I was wrong about young Potty, and I proffer my sincere apology. He's approached this issue in a mature and sensible way, and I'm impressed by the way he's considered people's responses and proposed a rational compromise. I'd actually extend his proposal such that, for example, drivers of large 4WDs would need additional accreditation.

So I guess it sucks for Potty, but I suppose it's ultimately a relatively minor inconvenience and annoyance in the long run. In a couple of years time it will be a moot point, and most probably the cost of fuel by then will have made owning a V8 a ridiculously profligate exercise anyway.

Yeah, So anyone here got a cheap V6 ute for sale? =P
need it to pass a roady, too

I reckon it is totally stupid to look at what engine/weight ratio your vehicle should be allowed to be driven. The only restriction which should be applied is the passenger restriction.Parental/experienced adult drivers excluded.Whether you drive a pushbike or a v12 and you hit a tree at 40klm/p/h you're dead.But how many passengers are killed and not the drivers? Driver reflexes generally makes you aim past a tree,hence passengers will be the victim.It might sound too simple but do the tally.

Mate if you look at the new laws the passenger restrictions are already in place, the problem is the 1% of stupid p platers who decide to ignore them.

They give me the irrits. They have already stuffed it for me so now i cant take my family anywhere in the car once i got P's and it also makes it worse for designated drivers, means more cars need to be used. It really is stupid, but hey, so are most things in life.

Still looking for a Ute

ANY model, under $2k with Roadworthy and/or rego
Has to be a 4 or 6 cylinder. *cries*
i live in melbourne so any one selling please post here and i will be in touch, thanks =)