AJ Philips: "Thank you both Runner and Philo, for making clear, the subtle point I was trying to make previously about rational thinking and the lack there of."

How unusual to see Philo, runner and rational thinking mentioned in the same sentence!

Runner and Wizofaus,

An interesting article for you both - with some actual statistics - http://www.rationalist.com.au/archive/77/p8-12_AR77_web.pdf

Cheers,

People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming

This is an appalling situation - aren't there RSPCA laws in place to address this type of cruelty? Whether the church has forgiven her is not the issue, the current law which she appears to have broken is. From what I understand, Catholics can be absolved of sin/crime in the confessional, but this does not in any way absolve them, in law, from the consequences of their actions.

Perhaps someone can correct me ... but I think the laws regarding burning witches at the stake have not been repealed - so, applying the "logic" evidenced in this particular case, some churches could have a field day ...

I don't agree with discriminating against either religions or atheists regarding judges and juries; this could present problems in itself. Also, so many people are nominally a religion, but do not adhere to, let alone contemplate any religious beliefs.

Oliver, I am entirely with you - the woman's mental stability is in question. She is unquestionably sadistic - not only in her action of killing the goat, but also in her utter disregard for the child's feelings.

There is a recognized connection between children who torture animals and their later development into serial killers

Wobbles, while interesting, it's not all that meaningful just to look at the situation for one country over the last few decades.

The total number of humans that have ever existed is in the order of 100 billion. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#_note-haub)

If we allow for a gradual ramp up from 0% of the population in 0AD to 30% of the total population now, that means ~15% of everyone who has ever lived since 0AD were/are Christians, out of a total number of about 60 billion humans (see previous link), giving 9 billion. We'll round that up to conclude that at most 10% of all humans that have ever existed were/are Christians. Hence apparently 90% of all the souls God personally breathed life into are now burning in hell.

Seeing as Christianity has now been growing more slowly than Islam and secularism for quite some time, that percentage will only ever go down, barring of course a proven second coming!

Wobbles

The statistics quoted do indicate a decline in church attendance and even belief among those in the Western world. Wherever there is materialism and comfort their is generally a corresponding apathy in spiritual matters. It has never been any different. Jesus Himself rebuked the lukewarm church because they were comfortable and became cold towards spiritual matters. It is generally not so much that people don't believe than they enjoy the pleasures of sin more than the acceptance of God. I am sure many of the posters here fall in that category. Where there is poverty and persecution the church is at its strongest. China is one of the best examples of this where believers are at incredibly high numbers despite the governments attempts to outlaw and persecute the believers. Along with the devil the vast majority of Australians still believe Jesus to be the Son of God. While faith in Christ might be declining in the West overall it has never been healthier.

I don't think it very helpful to point the finger at religion in general. A Jesuit priest was an adviser to NASA some years ago, and I doubt very much if he advised that all that was needed for "lift off" was prayer.

I am sure that there are some atheists who have strange ideas.

I am also sure that neither religions nor atheists have the monopoly on compassion.

The big concern at present is that fundamentalism in all religions is on the rise. In the US, we have seen sections of the community setting up educational bodies teaching creationism; now England is following suite. Why creationism is now grabbing the imagination of some sections of society is beyond belief ... Even devout people of simplist beliefs would surely see that evolution supports a much grander plan.

However, there should be much concern at the issue raised by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming that a person who has committed a crime can escape prosecution based on absolution from a church. Also, surely what this woman did would be desecration of a church ... Isn't this a criminal act? The entire matter sounds like something from deepest "Hicksville" - it certainly would make for a compelling and fictional story; but, surely not some real event in this country.