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The Forum > General Discussion > What the Left believes

What the Left believes

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The terms ‘left’ and ‘right’ have no universally understood meaning regarding political systems. Perhaps ‘open slather’ and ‘reasonably controlled’ might be more useful terms to describe political standpoints. You appear to prefer ‘open slather’, whilst I lean towards ‘reasonable control’.
Your points:
1.Individuals should take responsibility for their own actions, learn from their mistakes, and be rewarded for their achievement
2. Equality of opportunity should always be strived for, but equality of outcome is not desirable for its own sake
3. Market economies are a force for good, and admirably capable of innovation, creativity and wealth generation
4. The rich getting richer does not mean the poor are getting poorer
5. Economic growth is worthwhile
6. Many people have irrational concerns about environmental damage and the health risks of technology
7. Freedom of speech should not be curtailed in order to avoid offending minority groups
8. An overly generous welfare state is not desirable
9. Governments are often inefficient and frequently make bad decisions
10. Government intervention into market forces often results in unwanted outcomes
My response:
1 & 2 ok.
3. market economies are ‘forces’... that’s all; not necessarily for good.
4. Yes it does. On a planetary scale, the rich are definitely getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, because we live in a closed system.
5. Probably not. Economic growth depends on growth in the exploitation of the planet’s natural resources. But they are finite. Unless humans strike a balance between input and extraction, we are doomed.
6. Environmental damage is real, probably permanent, causing the extinction of hundreds of thousands of species annually, upsetting the ecological balance of the entire planet, and putting all life, including humans, at risk of following suit. Technology is no more risk free than any other human endeavour.
7. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to inflame passions and incite others to persecute minorities.
8.9 & 10... agree... but as someone else observed. Unwanted by whom?
Posted by ybgirp, Monday, 31 December 2007 4:04:37 PM
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WizofAus statements are of his beliefs and core values. I agree with all of them as I guess the new labor party does. The statements do not deal with every circumstance as there will always be exceptions to everything.

1 - Basis for modern society. Frankgol's exceptions are inane.
2 - People need to be given the same freedoms to achieve. What they achieve is up to them. Again the basis for a just society.
3 - Market forces are like electricity, if abused it can be harmful, however, no society can function without it. The antithesis is communism which is a force for oppression and misery.
4 - Statement of fact. As most countries develop generally the rich get richer and the poor relatively get richer too. Compared to Africa where the wealth distribution is far more skewed.
5 - Statement of fact. The antithesis is depression is good?
6 - This goes without saying.
7 - I am a firm believer in freedom of speech. I also believe that it should not be curtailed to advoid offending the majority.
8 - State welfare is to assist those who permanently or temporarily are unable to work, however, it should never be an alternative to employment.
9 - The purpose of gov is to enable business to operate in a safe and fair manner. Efficiency is difficult to measure unless they actually get involved in business where they are seldom efficient.
10 - Gov is meant to regulate the markets to ensure fair play and accountablity. Most examples of gov trying to alter the markets end badly for all concerned. The prime example is rent control which discourages building and eventually increases rentals.

The left that most people understand is the old type socialist whose vacation from reality is well documented. The new left is market oriented libertarian. I would place Wiz in this bracket with myself.
Posted by Democritus, Monday, 31 December 2007 4:12:37 PM
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you arent a lefty mate - youre a champagne socialist!...you are simply following the latest trend where people like to call themselves leftys when in reality they live their lives like true Liberals.

For example, John Howard lost his seat in a traditionally conservative area - how many people in this electorate are blue collar workers?? How many people in this electorate earn below the national average wage?? How many people in this electorate send their kids to public schools??

Load of bollocks mate, Im sick to death of hypocritical 'leftys' telling me how I should be living my life when in reality they arent prepared to practice their 'lefty' beliefs in their own.
Posted by izzo, Monday, 31 December 2007 4:56:02 PM
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WIZZY you didn't mention the REALLL issues which divide 'Right' and "Left" .. they are the moral ones.. those annoying issues like 'Feminism' 'Homosexual rights' 'Abortion' etc....'Church and State'

State your position on those and we will quickly see your lefty or righty credentials mate.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 31 December 2007 7:29:34 PM
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Left, right.

Right, wrong.

Orange, green.

Mind, body.

Universal, particular.

Emotion, intellect.

Feeling, thinking.

Light, darkness.

Truth, beauty.

Male, female.

Venus, Mars.

Monism, pluralism.

Nature, nurture.

Process, content.

Wealth, poverty.

Evil, good.

Idealist, realist.

a priori, a posteriori.

Zero, God.

Left, right.

Is, ought.

Either, or.

Thinking, OLO.

Long way, short cut. Right, left. Neither, both. Label, libel.
Posted by FrankGol, Monday, 31 December 2007 8:08:10 PM
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Not left, not right but forward!

And we shall judge politicians on their politics!
Posted by dickie, Monday, 31 December 2007 8:22:23 PM
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