This discussion is taking different directions every day, how interesting.

Thank you eftfnc for introducing a new - if somewhat impenetrable - slant on the issues.

>>do you seriously believe that anything alive, and by human hands constrained and manipulated, as with pets,circus animals and for good measure GE animals and other living forms, need to be set free?<<

If you are saying what I think you are saying, I think that there is something demeaning and degrading to our humanity to keep animals for sport or other selfish reasons. So for pets and circus animals, the answer is a resounding yes, I seriously believe they should not be enslaved.

You might have to be a little more specific on the "GE animals and other living forms", but if you are asking whether I am a vegetarian the answer is no. I'm happy to debate - sensibly - whether there is a moral difference between eating meat and keeping animals as pets, but if it helps, I don't eat dogs or cats.

>>Ah you believe in the Ubermensch principal<<

You may need to explain this to my slow brain - how is Nietzsche involved? Did he own a puppy, perhaps? And I think you are travelling even further in the wrong direction with Steiner - this is not deep philosophy here, just the ethics of keeping doggies and kitties and bunnies.

>>How about taking care of other peoples mistakes towards animals and other natural living forms the best you can and not hide your compassion towards caring people who can only do their best to honor life all around us like so many in this forum.<<

Nah. Lost me there I'm afraid.

Have a great day.

My Lords, I have heard it said once and the saying has haunted me ever since - that if animals believed in the devil, he would look remarkably like a human being"

- Lord Bishop of Manchester

eftfnc,

We are indeed privileged to share in your words of wisdom on this thread - so aptly spoken. Thank you.

I am still waiting (rather forlornly) for someone to "join in" and offer some sensible and constructive suggestions as to how we can curtail this neverending problem of "ANIMAL CRUELTY" and I reiterate, as illustrated by the increasing dumping of unwanted and unloved pets that are discarded like a worn out shirts to satisfy the greedy whims of the selfish people out there in the community who think solely of "Me! Me! Me!"

I remember quite clearly the fiasco of the Cannon Hill Saleyards (the deplorable conditions and cruelty that the "prisoners awaiting execution" were subjected to) and the final solution to that particular problem which resulted in the closing down of the Saleyards.

It appears that we are very limited in the action that we can take to persuade the farmers, graziers and similar corporate members of the community that cruelty to animals is UNACCEPTABLE in any shape or form,..... but hang on!.....there is quid to be made out of it, so why should anyone really care!.......I think that there are some members of our community who would gladly sell their own children if they thought that there was a quid to be made out of it?

We are achieving nothing in this particular thread by arguing back and forth about trivialities concerning attitudes to the for`s and the against`s of pet ownership!.....What we really need is to formulate some sort of a plan to regulate and control the haphazard approach to pet ownership (and I use that term rather loosely) and submit some form of acceptable set of regualatory processes to Government for their consideration and hopefully eventual implementation!

Cuphandle

Open Letter - PM Rudd from fellow Queenslander.

Dear PM.

Two months ago a woman pinched a childs pet goat named Mandy and slowly killed it in a Church.
=no goal, fine, record- Nothing.
The Church said they `forgave` her.?
The QLD Premier said `nothing` nor the police ATG `nobody`.

Could you please direct the AT to appeal the judges descion as a matter of urgency.
Signed -- and so forth.

Cuphandle
It starts from the top especially judges.
Police need more training of the acts.
We have to `demand` justice and do it `ourselves` not rely on others.
We have to get the truth out to the public and not leave it to animal groups. People must get active and not just donate.

We have to except the Government takes bugger all notice of groups happily fobbing them off as extreme veggies or libbers or whatever.

Look at the fantasic job done by Animal Liberation for example in SA.
You didnt hear the then opposition Government say well done guys for dragging a federal Ministers A@ through the papers and disclosing the lack of concern in this country and utter cruelty.

People care- But I am afraid we are doing to have to inform them ourselves as members of public- otherwise half of them end up being mis lead.

We must always remember for eg RSPCA Australia do get Federal Government funding which goes towards CEOS wages Cars etc.

Also that RSPCA have a MOU with most State Governments.

They dont check live exports or piggery`s[ not often] Its not their job under the MOU with State Governments- Same as Poultry.

In other words RSPCA National call for a fund raiser for lets say for eg Live Exports.
The public dig deep and feel better. They dont know about the MOUs with the Government.

Others join groups - make their monthly payment again feeling better.

Trouble is those people who joined are now officially extreme according to the Governnment and Media[same]

People should write letters themselves.Thats the answer.

They can still use the information gained memberships.

PALEIF: "...if you wouldn’t mind we would like forward your post to our CEO for RSPCA QLD web page."

Glad you enjoyed it, but I think it would be a much better idea if you forwarded the URL for the thread, so that my comment can be seen in context. The URL is

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1373&page=0

Morgan

Thanks, I will send both if thats ok. We have a very special CEO in QLD RSPCA and we are blessed. However I am not sure the web master can put up a link from a forum.
All Branches must operate under a strick code of practise and they have some mighty strange rules set the National Branch believe me.
As it is e operate a lot in the grey areas already.
However we Thank You `
Cuphandle said
I am still waiting (rather forlornly) for someone to "join in" and offer some sensible and constructive suggestions as to how we can curtail this neverending problem of "ANIMAL CRUELTY"

It appears that we are very limited in the action that we can take to persuade the farmers, graziers and similar corporate members of the community that cruelty to animals is UNACCEPTABLE in any shape or form
We are achieving nothing in this particular thread by arguing back and forth about trivialities concerning attitudes to the for`s and the against`s of pet ownership!.....What we really need is to formulate some sort of a plan to regulate and control the haphazard approach to pet ownership (and I use that term rather loosely) and submit some form of acceptable set of regualatory processes to Government for their consideration and hopefully eventual implementation!
Posted by Cuphandle, Monday, 31 December 2007 6:14:20 PM

Pale Replies
I learnt a long time ago not to take over sombodies progect.
I think we should tackle one thing at a time and BTW I totally agree with you.
You come up with a prefered approach to whichever you wish to tacke first and we will support you wherever possible.