It is indeed day one in the new fight for our rights at work, I hope we can take about it with understanding.
Mr Rudd do you know you are my hero?
You truly are we unionists manned the booths letter boxed and hoped, you delivered.
My view of your task is to restore the ALP brand name, while governing for all Australia.
I have no fear of New Labor and watch with hope for your government to bring back accountability, bloke may I ask a favor?
Can you make a seat for ROBO from unions NSW at your talks about our IR policy?
Bill Shorten too? maybe keep the two Bills together one more time and add Bill Ludwig?
We need understanding about the impacts of Casualisation of the workforce.
Arbitration of disputes.
your balanced plan for unfair dismissals is ok by me.
And I have no problems with accountability for unions and officials.
How about bosses Kev? I have sat opposite side of the table to former union delegates who used workchoices to ignore safety having swam the river and become bosses.
How painful it is Kev to see a needless death on a government funded project because our right of entry is only some times!
See the national highway blinded by dust because my former delegate thinks like he has been trained to and I have no right to stop it.
Kev could it ever be the case? that some construction bosses are worse than even the idiot few officials that insult the union movement? yes mate it is .

belly, clearly you are preparing for disillusionment already. very wise.

Kevin you are our country's leader for the next 9 years, no need to lie here the truth about workchoices is as bad as it gets.
Casual workforce, yes I know the flexible workforce is here to stay.
Must it make victims of those who have no choice? who can only get a casual job?
Those who can never get credit to buy a home? even a car? who will never have a paid sick day? public holiday or annual leave?
In the run up to workchoices, once Howard won the senate, firms did thousands of AWAs, and full of power and without direction shirt fronted unions.
We will do an agreement now before workchoices on our path, keep some of your entitlements but not casual loadings on overtime.
That loading is union won, no gift we fought and won it, to compensate for every one of the lost things like public holidays.
To say yes you have a flexible workforce but pay some of the gains to its victims.
First half of workchoices saw THE AWARD UNDERMINED! casual loading not paid on overtime.
Some times 24 hour weeks one day normal time two on weekend only the one day had the loading.
Both employer and unions knew this undermined fairness, it continued under Howard's fairness test! back packers and casual workers no skills in industrial relations paid to judge fairness in new agreements!
Passed them even undermining awards a fact.
Why should we plan to let permanent jobs be converted to casual?
Let the victims speak life is hard for victims of the race to the bottom in casual wages and conditions.
Let our safety net say clearly casual loading is to be paid on all hours worked.
Let it say the loading is 30% with fixed cost of living increases.
Let it say being treated fairly is for casual workers too.
Look at AWAs and awards in force for years to come that even take the loading away! and overtime too.
Shame Mr Howard!

Right of entry for union officials, no worries Kev, front up to the office present my credentials inform them why I am on site.
Even ask to be taken to job I want to look at.
But while dust flys across the national highway because less water trucks than are needed are at work, while electric faults that may bring death have not been attended for days maybe weeks.
While my concerns about rats running under lunch room floors are sneered at not attended to WORKCHOICES harmed safety!
Knowing ANY attempt to enter a site by me no matter how honest my claims would be reported to your continuing group of slugs the building industry task group I did not force my rights as often as I SHOULD HAVE.
Kev work cover the NSW body charged with overlooking workplace safety is a dreadful disgrace , as well schooled in doing nothing while looking busy as any public servant who ever lived.
As handy as two men short in a tug of war team!
Yes control the idiots in union shirts, they are of no use to unionists but.
GIVE ME FAIR AND HONEST RIGHT OF ENTRY!
That bloke who runs NSW whats his name could do worse than inquire into why workers do not trust work cover razor gangs may have to visit a pub or club to see them not at work sites unless a death has already taken place.
Then they will be as deep as flys and just as useless.

i think i see the problem belly: you cracked open a tin or two saturday night and are writing in that horrid halfway place between drunk and hungover. take to bed for a few days, lots of o.j., a good breakfast and a long fast walk. then you can turn the pc back on.

When a new government is elected the commentators always ask, “What will the honeymoon period be like?” This time there’s now doubt. The best thing that could happen to the new government in the short run would be the election of Brendan Nelson and Julie Bishop to the leadership of the coalition. It was the zombie like zealotry of these two and a few others that brought about the demise of the government. If the ALP wants to remain in power for the foreseeable future the best thing that could happen would be the election of these two to the opposition leadership.

Belly I've been in the workforce for many years and the only people who have ever threatened my "Rights at work" have been unionists or management figures with close ties to the ALP.

I worked in the Queensland electricity industry during the Joh era and my observation is that Beatty treated workers with far more contempt than Joh ever managed to. A situation made worse by the unions failure to do anything which might hurt the ALP politically.

It's more likely the end of my rights at work and the beginning of union dominated thuggery in the workplace.

R0bert

DEMOS we need to talk , your comments have the heavy weight of about one quart of one percent backing you.
My posts are at least informed and about real problems for real people.
One single day before workchoices casual loaded rate for casual day labour on one country construction site was $21.80 per hour, all personal protective clothing supplied no safety concerns.
One week after workchoices same site, every current casual and the firm employing them went of site.
Same prime contractor ,once a valued and respected firm took the lowest tender.
Wages casual loaded now? $17.40! a fight for any ppe[ clothing gloves ext]
Your often stated wish for democracy and less people in the world ,is that based on starving workers to death?
In truth I usually try that extra little bit to see other posters viewpoint but can find no value or understanding in your last effort.
Sorry no backward stepping, my members would not want me to what point are you trying to make? that workers should not have rights?
I was not far wrong in my pre poll expectations and you will find in asking for fairness in the workplace my claims are based on true conditions that exist today and the wants and wishes of part time workers.

Belly, I voted for a Rudd-Labor government, not a 'far-left' Labor government - there is a difference and I think you should have enough humility to, if not understand it, accept it.

Any prognostications about sticking it to the right wing of politics will not help our (Labor) cause.

Please understand Belly, it is NOT about right/left, unions/capitalists, us/them, etc.

Rudd has won this election by reasonably and rationally arguing a case for a future under new leadership (and Howard/Costello lost it for relying on the 'old' way of doing things).

If you are going to be representative of the extreme 'left' of Labor, it will note bode well for the future Rudd has vision for or what the people that voted for him now expect. There is plenty of work to be done, not least building on the tentative faith that many in Oz have given a Rudd-Labor government.

This faith in Rudd-Labor has not been given to the trade unions per se. The sooner you realise this and the sooner you temper your exuberance (whilst I share this with you) the better.

Summary: put a sock in it!

QxA hold your self accountable for that idiotic post!
If read others posts before commenting you will find the truth I am from center unity Labors right!
My union is from that faction.
My greatest fear! is not the broken conservative rabble.
It is the extreme left of my party and my union movement.
Do you understand Howard's battlers have been victims of workchoices?
Present award says 20 or 25% loading on casual wages, remember some only get one day a week work, yet are not considered unemployed.
Tell me about evil unions but understand it did not sell with voters.
Rudd is the man I have sold here from his first day as leader, an honest country first leader, he will be mainstream and bring back to us voters from both left and right.
HOWEVER some Australians still need help at work, bloody hell how can you not see in my calling for Robo that workchoices was not a leftist battle?
I know it now was unions greatest fight ever and it is the turning point for the union movement.
Good unions will one day have the guts to stand away from the idiots in union shirts how do not understand our job is workers rights nothing else.
Q,A would you want your job to be made casual? never a paid day of? not knowing if you get one days work or none this week?
your rights at work is a battle that continues forever.
My tools are not strikes or street March's it is debate and two way talking once an Aussie would not find fault in asking for a fair go for those who need it, believe it or not no boss has ever called me a thug and no way I ever intend to be.
By the way it is my view till death having not picked Robo to lead the ACTU is as useless as tits on a bull , left my bottom mate.

Whoa, temper your tantrums … your beginning to sound like some other obsessive compulsive on OLO that rants on incessantly.

Ok Belly, I am an idiot … point taken.

I have a struggling business that can’t make ends meet and am also one of your casual workers “lucky” enough to get 4hrs work a week out in rural/regional Australia.

You hurt, I hurt, many hurt … just rest up a bit, please.

And to rephrase my previous post – I AM ON YOUR SIDE!! Or is this the 1st sign of in-fighting in the ranks?

this election was won by ignorance and Australia is the loser. I give it less than a year before the serious stuff-ups commence.
of course, I only have three federal labor governments as a guide. Peter Garrett's excuses will be hillarious but on the other hand I don't think he'll get the environment portfolio. Rudd is smarter than that.

QxA before we shake hands do me one favor? go to your post each side of my one before this read the three.
Then if you can tell me it is me chucking a tantrum I will take another look leftist my substantial bottom!
Individual thanks heaps! your post brings me great joy! can you truly think voters who did not votes as you wished are dills?
Got conned?
Writing slowly Conservative voters turned on JOHN HOWARD.
Without that he would be Prime Minister still.
With me so far?
Did you place as little faith in voters after they delivered Lathams flogging?
And the senate?
can you understand this defeat is far worse?
Do you truly want to tell the world you think like that?
joy and happiness to you friend and again thanks for giving that to me.

I may have been hard on Q,A but not on individual, I have an understanding of opinions about unions, mostly wrong ones.
In truth ,my private view sometimes only unions can be blamed for that view, in idiotic attempts at a solidarity that never existed we often stay silent, at least in public after idiots harm our brand.
But take it from me unions are not always from the left.
And one day if we unions that is , work hard enough more will understand being in a union is just insurance for the workplace.
No more evil than car insurance or home insurance.
Indeed not unlike those we insure our cars with unions are charged with putting a case to government for better out comes in the workplace.
Rudd will not be our Santa, he may not even understand our needs as much as we want, but our aims to improve life for victims of international trade such as casual workers must continue.
More jobs are being converted from full time to part time each day, if the costs benefits always go only to the boss the flow will continue.
Why can some not see the host of paid people buying lunch's for Polly's to try to get outcomes for big business may in fact do more harm than trade unions?
Why is it ok for them , often ex Polly's but not for a union?
Your rights at work is a forever campaign, so it should be.

belly
My family like many others own a small business. We struggle to make ends meet. We employ four staff. Two of those are casual. Smetimes we are able to employ another one or two over busy times but thats the limit.
My family wrk very hard. Twelve sixteen hour days are nt unusual.
We have several morgages and other over- heads.

You not on top of everything else suggesting to make us pay casual staff holidays etc etc for God Sake Are You?

We would have to close our doors along with many other small business.

Belly a local business is about to close its doors - three people will be out of work. They were happy working there but the boss cannot afford to go on - he was earning a little above the unemployment benefit to keep his workers on and he was working 70 hour weeks to do it. They were not earning a lot but they had the flexibility they needed to care for aged parents and a kid with a disability.
What happened? The union arrived yesterday and told him things were going to change under the government. It was just a 'friendly word'. They have been waiting for weeks to do this - ever since his staff told the union they wanted no part in their shenanigans.
Ah yes, great improvements under Labor

Taryn w your post is offensive! and it is wrong! I never NOT EVER asked for holiday pay for casuals.
The casual loading is to substitute for all those lost things.
Communicat, You hurl this charge at me without the full story it may be that the boss is doing the right thing and need not fear the union.
It may also be true that like so many including yesterday he underpaid even under workchoices laws some underpaid.
Both of you need to understand that last Saturday the huge lies and fear campaign still saw the lies not have a negative impact.
Now while our hurt and suffering conservative voters find another way to insult all unions let me give all some advice.
A boss does not have to say yes to union claims, no is still an option, IF YOU ARE DOING NOTHING WRONG!
And you will find it hard to believe but it remains true, next Tuesday I meet ,by request, with 2 small business men, they are about to commence trading and asked for advice.
I will hand them health and safety policy's from other firms, drug and alcohol policy's to pick one, advice as they asked on wages.
A legal run down of insurances needed and return to work plans for injured workers.
$20.000 worth if done by costs , my charges? zero!
A chance to get members and work on their behalf nothing more.
Remember it is one of hundreds of such story's many have come to us and asked for such help.
If conservatives in such great pain can get their heads around this[ thanks for the added joy truly]
My members can not make a quid if the boss is not!
And failure by some bosses to make a quid may well not be unions fault.
Communicat you do every time you post talk in terms of evil ALP or unions my joy is endless.
Do you wish to add to our library of FREE help for good bosses or is your concern only a weapon you blindly throw?

What is the 'right thing' Belly - abide by union demands I assume? Never mind what the workers want and agree to. There are people who are willing to be paid a little less in return for flexibility, the chance to work during school hours or to leave early to take a family member to a medical appointment.
It was a tiny business Belly and one which performed a useful service in the community. It was not the sort of business to make a packet for shareholders or anyone else just a useful service with nice people. The boss was not out to make a lot of money but hoped to get a decent return for his efforts and the efforts of his employees but the union moved in and said that he had to meet union standards - not his employees' standards (and they could have gone elsewhere but they liked the guy and his conditions).
Like it or not Belly unions do have things to answer for. They did good in the past and they could do good again but they will not do good when they muscle in and make unreasonable demands because that is what they and not those doing the job want.
Time to acknowledge that unions are not perfect Belly?

Now that our leadership is in place we have decided to ratify Kyoto with bi-partisan support on condition that our people will not be harmed with any reckless agreements with those under developed Countries. We will not support any changes to our Fair work Choice Laws. Western Australia have given us a mandate to protect the Industrial Relations Laws to change them would bite into the profits of our Multi Nationals who will then lay off staff or alternatively will invest Overseas. Australian Individual Workplace Agreements are popular in Moore, Pearce, Cowan, Stirling, Curtin, Kalgoolie and I cannot see any valid reason why they should be changed. If Labor want to go and challenge us to a double dissolution so be it and we will then win with our new team.

Dear Q & A
I appreciate your reasoning with Belly but being in the middle of the road is worthless. The class war has always been for thousands of years what Trade Unionists do not seem to understand is that if we do not make the profits then there cannot be any decent wages for them. We have to continue unregulated with a partial welfare state. You should not have voted against work choices as it treated workers quite fairly all in all. The easiest way should have been to sequestrate their funds if they defied the laws and went on strike.

Hi Julie, it is late but thanks for your thoughts.

You say "class war has always been for thousands of years", I say this does not make it right.

The 'class of 07' is an enlightened way of solving the problems we have - we should now wish them well.

JV do you even Begin to understand? to know you are so out of touch it is funny?
To understand your team got beaten, flogged in fact? that fear and lies hate even was rejected?
Yes some true idiots in union shirts live in the west, my enemy's as well as yours, no back down grubs and fools.
But mandate? you have a mandate? idiotic but fun!
Communicat is fun, the miss information ,the blind dislike of the reality all unions are not the same but JV!
Just a week after Australia voted you bring great joy.
Some facts Rudd is every thing we said he was, time and again I said he would not be unions Santa he will re craft IR no side will be totally happy but none hostile, his system will outlast his government, yes in the far distant future conservatives will not change it.
Just before Howard took over your party could not win a raffle if they bought every ticket JV this time it is worse!
Every state every Territory and now federally your party and its policy's have been rejected.
AND YOU HAVE A MANDATE?
Just think not unlike this brand new government conservatives must move to wards the voters the center not blunder away with the thought elections are won by blindness and stupidity.
Win next time, no sorry not one chance in a million the ALP remembers its time in the wilderness now it is your time.

Belly Said

Do you understand Howard's battlers have been victims of workchoices?
Present award says 20 or 25% loading on casual wages, remember some only get one day a week work, yet are not considered unemployed.
Taryn Replies
No Belly its clear your attitude towards anybody who isnt under your god dam power trip.

So YOU DO think my family should pay MORE which would CLOSE our business within months!

The way you responded to me is typical of the unuion mentality.

This whole thing with you is about class and about your ego
Pure and simple.
Thats so true of ALP in general.

The working class attack the educated. Thats basically what this is all about.
I note how much time you have to spare me and my family to discuss the many problems we have with the loss of work choices.
You couldnt have said it better.

Yeh sure belly we are the enermy.
Those dreadful people of Australia that worked a bit harder to open a business which provides jobs

The reason you have no time for business owners is you feel threatend by people with higher intellegence than yourself.

Wasnt it you who post for example-
What has Rudd and China to do with live exports?- How emabarresing.

If you dont understand the trade issues of this country belly you can not make sensible assesments of anything and you clearly dont understand business on a internatinal scale.

Nor locally it would appear.

You seem to care about business owners even less.

No wonder why all our main job providers went off shore.
" Their Coming Back'
' Their coming back'

Hang on Belly. I, quite fairly, pointed out that unions had done some good but that they were not perfect. The danger now (and it is a very real danger) is that unions will regain the power they once had and that was too much power. I know you will want to argue otherwise but unions are not the elected government. Even when they had more members than they have now they were not the elected government. Unfortunately for them and everyone else the overall union movement still wields influence in excess of its membership. The line up of ALP MPs who were formerly trade unionists is evidence of this. People who wanted to vote ALP had no choice but to vote for people who were and still are closely aligned to the ACTU - Greg Combet and crew are not going to desert their union mates if they want to keep their jobs. That's the way the system works.
For all his fine words Rudd has to work with the union movement first and the rest of us second - and he knows it.

TarynW, yep ... Belly is on a trip ... off the planet if you ask me. I voted Labor and share his exuberance, I definitley don't share his views. I think he should, as previously said, "put a sock in it" - you know, shut the %$&* up!

Belly is doing more harm than good to his, in his mind, 'cause'. Raising the hate stakes seems to be his agenda, the fool.

Rudd is more concillatory than Belly realises, and very much understands the difficulties faced by small business.

We can all cringe at remarks like Belly's, and I can empathise for your family and Rudd alike.

Q and A
Thanks. I hope yur right. My Dad will loose his business if they change much more.

We are all very worried about it.

Kevin Rudd is an unknown but I know he isnt strong.

He couldnt even stand up to Peter Beattie up here about the council amalgimation.

My family were for it and thought Peter Beattie was right btw.

Thats not the point however.

The point is if Rudd culdnt stand up to one of hs wn local State guys how on earth is he ever going to stand up to some of these old union bullys.

We got a letter through our family business. Well an email actually before the elections.

We were encrgared to vote ALP with a added promise- Dont worry once we are in we will get rid of Rudd.

See what I mean.

If they are going to back stab him and push him aside it could be worse .

All I know about Rudd is he has a weak handshake and soft loose mouth.
Not a strong look for a PM.

I notice he didnt give Kerry Obrien the agriculture port folio after Kerry going on Land Line making certain statements that they would look at stopping live exports.

So I guess that means he can now say the new bloke doesnt agree with Kerry.
Thats a dirty trick after thousands voted for ALP because of what Kerry said on land Line
I bet you its all changed now!!

How can Taryn employ people and not know the LAWFUL rates of pay she must pay.
That EVEN UNDER WORKCHOICES it is the law to pay casual loading.
Communicat is no fool fixed and one sided yes but understands surely Howard's safety net was put in place because of the great and real damage bosses miss using it did.
In the next 6 months LABOR in government will uncover thousands of cases of miss use and underpayments'
Now my friend if you ever speak in public to me like that you will instantly regret it, my thread is not about controlling the party I have been a member of longer than you have been alive.
It is about announcing loud and clear workers do not want hand outs or more than a fair share.
They have of late been victims of a wish to be internationally competitive in world trade.
That some Australians need not be victims so other can be rich is not un Australian.
The last few posts are reminding me why we had to win why middle Australia including ex Liberal voters agreed.
But to say unions who gave birth, they did you know to the Labor party are filth for lobbying them? idiotic, that asking not to be forgotten is wrong?
Rudd thankfully is the man he appears we unionists are after all Australians and he will govern for all of us.
To spew hate here does some posters no credit.
I no longer place any value on Taryn w posts.
One last thing ,good poster read others posts in time get an understanding of them and the directions they come from.
Other constantly have to say sorry I got it wrong.
Those who know me understand my view on unions is some are well past use by date, other must change or die , death more likely than change.
But if you do not know a difference exists you should stay away from the subject.

Hey Belly
Do the unions have a fine system for when the poor workers bludge on the boss? The fine funds going to Dad of curse.
D they walk in a kick workers up the bum for sitting around talking instead of wrking? Are they even fair?
If my Dads staff take an extra half an hour lunch everyday and ten minutes a morning tea- What do you think is ging to happen to Dads business and everybdies jobs huh?
So if Dad find bludgers and liers on his staff why shouldnt he be able to say- See u llater aligator
Its the same as stealing.
You never mentioned Kerry Obrien. Do you think thats fair play to put ALP up as having a ceratain policy and attitude towards one of our biggest problems and then boot him AFTER everybody voted for either the greens or ALP because of thise plocies which were aired all over Land Line newspapers and radio?
Isnt that lying to the pubic?
Isnt it a dirty trick.
I dont even have to wait to bne told the new Mininster Tony doesnt agree with Kerry Obrien.
Want to place a bet on it Belly?

The CFMEU came on a building site on Friday and under the pretext of safety stopped a crew of tradesmen from working for 3 hours. It took the boss 3 hours to get these creeps to read his SWMS and look at his records of Consultation eg Toolbox talks, Risk Assessments and for him to demonstrate that he was operating within WorkCover requirements.

For this 30 yo employer thats $500 in wages without production he will never see again. Thats 1 mortgage repayment, or Xmas presents for his kids gone.

Employers should have the right to sue the CFMEU for unjust loss of money.

If you read my posts you pamilest will find that is not my union.
And you may just understand a difference exists.
If I found or was informed of a safety problem here is how I would fix it.
Talk to site safe man, ask questions
is any worker at risk?
Answer yes remove them to lunch rooms ASAP while inspecting the problem.
Answer no
Ask can you and I take a look?
Work to continue unless danger exists while inspection takes place.
No lies threats or miss use of right of entry.
If no issue exists say thanks and leave.
Taryn w you are being foolish, why is it so many members of pale seem to share the one personality?
Non performers are your business not mine! sack them if you must but remember it is not my job to do it for you!
What would you say, fairdinkum , if I walked into your business and told workers how to work.
However can you imagine a boss saying Belly can you come down for a talk? I need to tell a couple to pull their socks up and think they may listen if you are there.
Well you better believe it it happens often, most times improvements make every one happy.
A boss must be a boss.

Belly, I believe you, but

no Unfair dismissals withut unfair resignations

no right to stop work without the right to sue for unreasonable stoppage of work

no right to join without the right to resign or never sign up etc

I hope you have some understanding of my predicament? I await some unions growing up.
I can not speak for my union but I think some actions are beneath contempt, from some unions.
A person who has to be forced to join a union is no unionist, it is a loss for that union.
I think a better way exists ,you may call it radical I call it fair, let unions negotiate for union members only.
Let non unionists get award or talk for themselves at EBA time or any time, including dismissals.
I have never forced a person not one to join a union, my greatest sin against the movement has been to help far too many non unionists in trouble out.
20 years from now unions will be different, still working for workers but less of the truly feral type around.
In the Scandinavian country's unions act as part of the office furniture, part of the firm.
I know even if the public do not yet my union has lost if it ever had the workplace warfare style.
Do you understand in my daily life more bosses are asking for refuge from some unions? finding us? asking us by invitation to come around and talk?
I hope we never stop getting better results for workers by doing our job better and that we never forget we must evolve.
Unfair resignation? remember the conservatives chant if you do not like your job get another? cute reversing it on me!
Fear not the new unfair dismissal laws will be no push over less likely to be used than the old one indeed was.

belly

Turning what! on you.? Hes right. One rule for all.

I except two weeks notice as you expect us to give two weeks.

How bloody unfair that a business owner should have to give THREE warnings[in writing] while someone can just drop tools and leave others in the lerk! loosing orders and destroying somebody elses business and Australia as a whole.

Thats teaching todays kids to have NO PRINCIPLES at ALL
Its discusting!